Anco wiper blades called a CR best buy

"Bob Jones" > wrote in message
...
>
> "L Alpert" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Retired VIP" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:53:26 -0400, "L Alpert" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Bob Jones" > wrote in message
>>>>news >>>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda
>>>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal
>>>>>> experiences are a small sample size as well, even if they differ
>>>>>> from yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this
>>>>> kind of requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze
>>>>> could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but
>>>>> why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or
>>>>> a radiator.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>'79 Accord, '82 Accord, '01 Accord, '02 Civic, '04 Accord (the '01 and
>>>>'04 Accords are current). Non silicate DAT type antifreeze is all
>>>>that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major
>>>>manufacturer makes.
>>>>
>>>>Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota,
>>>>Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would
>>>>all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify
>>>>something different?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have already given up, these folks in the newsgroups don't
>>> understand the economics of manufacturing. Off the shelf is always
>>> cheaper than custom and, if care is used in selecting a supplier, just
>>> as good. The older style iron block / aluminum head engines as well
>>> as the aluminum block / iron head did require a special coolant
>>> because the stuff for all-iron engines would promote electrolysis. But
>>> new all aluminum engines need something that won't attack aluminum and
>>> that includes almost every coolant manufactured today.
>>>
>>> Read the label on the jug of coolant. Do you really think any of the
>>> coolant manufactures are going to claim to be compatible with all
>>> types of antifreezes if they aren't? Just imagine all the lawsuits
>>> that would set up and the billions of dollars in judgments.
>>>
>>> Jack
>>
>> The only issue is the standard manufacturers disclaimer that if one does
>> not use the branded products, the warranty may be voided (no matter how
>> unreasonable that is).
>>
>> While I'm sure that one could prove equivalency in a court of law, no one
>> probably wants to be the test case.
>>
>> This could be a mitigating factor for most.
>>
>
> In addition, corrosion is a slow process. Who is going to notice the
> difference? It affects the water pump or radiator more than the engine.
>

Whose to say another manufacturer doesn't make a product that is superior
performance?

"Retired VIP" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:24:31 -0400, "L Alpert"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Retired VIP" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:53:26 -0400, "L Alpert" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Bob Jones" > wrote in message
>>>>news >>>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda
>>>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal
>>>>>> experiences are a small sample size as well, even if they differ
>>>>>> from yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this
>>>>> kind of requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze
>>>>> could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but
>>>>> why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or
>>>>> a radiator.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>'79 Accord, '82 Accord, '01 Accord, '02 Civic, '04 Accord (the '01 and
>>>>'04 Accords are current). Non silicate DAT type antifreeze is all
>>>>that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major
>>>>manufacturer makes.
>>>>
>>>>Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota,
>>>>Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would
>>>>all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify
>>>>something different?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have already given up, these folks in the newsgroups don't
>>> understand the economics of manufacturing. Off the shelf is always
>>> cheaper than custom and, if care is used in selecting a supplier, just
>>> as good. The older style iron block / aluminum head engines as well
>>> as the aluminum block / iron head did require a special coolant
>>> because the stuff for all-iron engines would promote electrolysis. But
>>> new all aluminum engines need something that won't attack aluminum and
>>> that includes almost every coolant manufactured today.
>>>
>>> Read the label on the jug of coolant. Do you really think any of the
>>> coolant manufactures are going to claim to be compatible with all
>>> types of antifreezes if they aren't? Just imagine all the lawsuits
>>> that would set up and the billions of dollars in judgments.
>>>
>>> Jack
>>
>>The only issue is the standard manufacturers disclaimer that if one does
>>not
>>use the branded products, the warranty may be voided (no matter how
>>unreasonable that is).
>>
>>While I'm sure that one could prove equivalency in a court of law, no one
>>probably wants to be the test case.
>>
>>This could be a mitigating factor for most.
>>
>
> I understand. The manufacturer has no control over what fluids you
> buy. So protect his pocket, he has to ensure that you use quality
> products hence the threat of no warranty coverage if you don't use his
> stuff. No one has said, and I'm not implying, that the manufacturer's
> branded product is inferior to OTC products. But the burden of proof
> is on you. You would have to prove that the product you use meets the
> manufacturer's specs. Once you do that, I think most dealers would
> honor the warranty. There have been numerous lawsuits over just this
> kind of thing.
>
> Jack

That is a pretty accurate summary.

"Bob Jones" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> Even the OEM ones don't seem to last as long these days.
>>
>>
>> http://www.freep.com/article/2008100...810070338/1014
>>
>> For a streak-free windshield, Consumer Reports recommends a wiper made
>> by Southfield-based Federal-Mogul Corp.
>>
>> The magazine tested and ranked 15 models of wiper blades for its
>> November issue, and Federal-Mogul's Anco 31 Series model offered one
>> of the best values.

Has anyone tried above recommendations?

Retired VIP wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:53:26 -0400, "L Alpert" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Bob Jones" > wrote in message
>> news
>>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda
>>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal
>>>> experiences are a small sample size as well, even if they differ
>>>> from yours.
>>>>
>>> What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this
>>> kind of requirements.
>>>
>>> On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze
>>> could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but
>>> why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or
>>> a radiator.
>>>
>> '79 Accord, '82 Accord, '01 Accord, '02 Civic, '04 Accord (the '01 and
>> '04 Accords are current). Non silicate DAT type antifreeze is all
>> that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major
>> manufacturer makes.
>>
>> Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota,
>> Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would
>> all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify
>> something different?
>>
>
> I have already given up, these folks in the newsgroups don't
> understand the economics of manufacturing.

well, /someone/ doesn't understand economics of manufacturing. if you
have a modern plant, use a batch process, and have different specs for
different bulk customers, you'd be a damned fool to supply material
over-spec just because you couldn't be bothered to push a few buttons on
your metering flow controls.



> Off the shelf is always
> cheaper than custom and, if care is used in selecting a supplier, just
> as good. The older style iron block / aluminum head engines as well
> as the aluminum block / iron head did require a special coolant
> because the stuff for all-iron engines would promote electrolysis. But
> new all aluminum engines need something that won't attack aluminum and
> that includes almost every coolant manufactured today.

go to woolmort - you can still get non-aluminum anti-freeze.


>
> Read the label on the jug of coolant. Do you really think any of the
> coolant manufactures are going to claim to be compatible with all
> types of antifreezes if they aren't? Just imagine all the lawsuits
> that would set up and the billions of dollars in judgments.

like this?
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ntifreeze.html

L Alpert wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "L Alpert" > wrote:
>>
>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the
>>> past 30
>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze,
>>> brake fluid,
>>> oil, etc.
>>>
>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other
>>> than the
>>> label.
>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think.
>>
>> Same with coolant.
>>
>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays.
>>
>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long
>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the
>> shelf
>> at Goober's gas station.
>
> Systems are engineered using available standard materials.

not always true - look at clutch thrust bearings. bearings are a
commodity "material" with stock bearings available for every conceivable
application. but auto manufacturers spec clutch thrust bearings that
are almost always different and exclusive from any of the off-the-shelf
solutions. because they can.

> I have seen
> no indications that Honda has used systems that has forced or required
> a technological breakthrough in auto fluids.

then you're not looking and you're not paying attention to the facts.
honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary honda gear trains,
they use a "stick" transmission configuration with clutch packs instead
of synchros. and they use one-way clutches too. on that basis, i
personally have absolutely no trouble believing they'd need a different
spec fluid. there's nothing "forcing" them to do it that way, but honda
are different. oh, and there's nothing "forcing" honda to make a car
that will routinely last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are
different.

L Alpert wrote:
> "Bob Jones" > wrote in message
> news
>>> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda
>>> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal
>>> experiences are a small sample size as well, even if they differ
>>> from yours.
>>>
>> What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this
>> kind of requirements.
>>
>> On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze
>> could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but
>> why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or
>> a radiator.
>>
>
> '79 Accord, '82 Accord, '01 Accord, '02 Civic, '04 Accord (the '01 and
> '04 Accords are current). Non silicate DAT type antifreeze is all
> that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major
> manufacturer makes.

how many coolant pump failures have you had? and why did you bother to
use non-silicate if this subject is such a non-issue?


>
> Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota,
> Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would
> all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify
> something different?

easy - longevity. japanese manufacturers differentiate themselves with
longevity. europeans don't design for mileage much over 100k. in fact,
they frequently design /against/ it. why waste money on a higher spec
coolant if the car's only got so long to live?

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> L Alpert wrote:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> "L Alpert" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30
>>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake
>>>> fluid,
>>>> oil, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other
>>>> than the
>>>> label.
>>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think.
>>>
>>> Same with coolant.
>>>
>>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays.
>>>
>>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long
>>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf
>>> at Goober's gas station.
>>
>> Systems are engineered using available standard materials.
>
> not always true - look at clutch thrust bearings. bearings are a
> commodity "material" with stock bearings available for every conceivable
> application. but auto manufacturers spec clutch thrust bearings that are
> almost always different and exclusive from any of the off-the-shelf
> solutions. because they can.
>
>> I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has forced or
>> required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids.
>
> then you're not looking and you're not paying attention to the facts.
> honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary honda gear trains,
> they use a "stick" transmission configuration with clutch packs instead of
> synchros. and they use one-way clutches too. on that basis, i personally
> have absolutely no trouble believing they'd need a different spec fluid.
> there's nothing "forcing" them to do it that way, but honda are different.
> oh, and there's nothing "forcing" honda to make a car that will routinely
> last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are different.
>

This is a TOYOTA newsgroup. Why are you polluting it with Honda stuff?

Sharx35 wrote:
>
>
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> ...
>> L Alpert wrote:
>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article >,
>>>> "L Alpert" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the
>>>>> past 30
>>>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze,
>>>>> brake fluid,
>>>>> oil, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other
>>>>> than the
>>>>> label.
>>>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think.
>>>>
>>>> Same with coolant.
>>>>
>>>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays.
>>>>
>>>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long
>>>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the
>>>> shelf
>>>> at Goober's gas station.
>>>
>>> Systems are engineered using available standard materials.
>>
>> not always true - look at clutch thrust bearings. bearings are a
>> commodity "material" with stock bearings available for every
>> conceivable application. but auto manufacturers spec clutch thrust
>> bearings that are almost always different and exclusive from any of
>> the off-the-shelf solutions. because they can.
>>
>>> I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has
>>> forced or required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids.
>>
>> then you're not looking and you're not paying attention to the facts.
>> honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary honda gear trains,
>> they use a "stick" transmission configuration with clutch packs
>> instead of synchros. and they use one-way clutches too. on that
>> basis, i personally have absolutely no trouble believing they'd need a
>> different spec fluid. there's nothing "forcing" them to do it that
>> way, but honda are different. oh, and there's nothing "forcing" honda
>> to make a car that will routinely last, 300k, 500k, or more miles.
>> but honda are different.
>>
>
> This is a TOYOTA newsgroup. Why are you polluting it with Honda stuff?
>

because if you follow the thread, you'll see it was originally posted to
alt.autos.toyota.camry, alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.makers.honda and
rec.autos.tech, that's why.

jim beam wrote:
> L Alpert wrote:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> "L Alpert" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30
>>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake
>>>> fluid,
>>>> oil, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other
>>>> than the
>>>> label.
>>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think.
>>>
>>> Same with coolant.
>>>
>>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays.
>>>
>>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long
>>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf
>>> at Goober's gas station.
>>
>> Systems are engineered using available standard materials.
>
> not always true - look at clutch thrust bearings. bearings are a
> commodity "material" with stock bearings available for every conceivable
> application. but auto manufacturers spec clutch thrust bearings that
> are almost always different and exclusive from any of the off-the-shelf
> solutions. because they can.
>
>> I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has forced
>> or required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids.
>
> then you're not looking and you're not paying attention to the facts.
> honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary honda gear trains,

whoops, too many hondas. should be:

"honda auto transmissions are not standard planetary gear trains".



> they use a "stick" transmission configuration with clutch packs instead
> of synchros. and they use one-way clutches too. on that basis, i
> personally have absolutely no trouble believing they'd need a different
> spec fluid. there's nothing "forcing" them to do it that way, but honda
> are different. oh, and there's nothing "forcing" honda to make a car
> that will routinely last, 300k, 500k, or more miles. but honda are
> different.
>

jim beam wrote:
> L Alpert wrote:
>> "jim beam" > wrote in message
>> t...
>>> L Alpert wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" > wrote in message
>>>> t...
>>>>> L Alpert wrote:
>>>>>> "jim beam" > wrote in message
>>>>>> t...
>>>>>>> L Alpert wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>>>> Retired VIP > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car
>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer does
>>>>>>>>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their
>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>> factories.
>>>>>>>>> Sure they do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if
>>>>>>>>> you bypass
>>>>>>>>> their stuff, you see problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Engine oil, probably not.
>>>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the
>>>>>>>> past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF,
>>>>>>>> antifreeze, brake fluid, oil, etc.
>>>>>>> i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my
>>>>>>> experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda
>>>>>>> z1. if you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it
>>>>>>> sounds like you haven't achieved full dilution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them
>>>>>>>> other than the label.
>>>>>>> rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do
>>>>>>> you "doubt" that the component quality used by honda under the
>>>>>>> hood is any better than frod? have you ever dissected a honda
>>>>>>> vs. non-honda spec igniter unit for instance? honda may not
>>>>>>> manufacture half their stuff directly, but they /do/ write the
>>>>>>> spec and /do/ undertake q.c.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> While specific components that are manufactured for specific
>>>>>> applications will be built for those applications, genric items
>>>>>> that are manufactured to a general specification and relabled as
>>>>>> OEM are not.
>>>>> that statement is technically true...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is something I am quite familiar with, as I have been in the
>>>>>> OEM industry for many years (non automotive, but OEM non the
>>>>>> less).
>>>>> but here's the problem, you're /presuming/ that to be always the
>>>>> case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't
>>>>> mean they all do.
>>>>>
>>>> We make the same component for 4 different companies. Although
>>>> each customer has a slightly different specification, the process
>>>> is designed to meet them all.
>>>>
>>>> For anyone to mass manufacture a single component under multiple
>>>> processes and conditions would have great cost implications. It is
>>>> an economic reality.
>>> indeed. but i return to the original point - i can tell you from
>>> experience that two "generic" products used on hondas are not
>>> generic at all - atf and p/s fluid. just because others practice
>>> what you say, doesn't mean they all do.
>>
>> Manufacturing is manufacturing. Unless someone can point to a
>> specification for Honda fluids that actually make them unique from
>> other good and commonly used SAE equivalent components, I will
>> continue to use those generics that are readily available.
>>
>> While you have historically given very good advice in this newsgroup
>> and I respect your opinion on just about everything you post, I have
>> to disagree with the assessment of "Honda only fluids". It is a
>> common practice for just about every manufacturer to recommend in
>> their manuals to use only their fluids as a way of increasing sales of
>> these items.
>
> we can agree on that - in principle.
>
>
>> As I have stated before, my own experiences are quite the opposite of
>> yours, even with the small sample size of 5 Honda vehicles over 30 years.
>
> search the honda newsgroups - there's a tom of people disagree with you
> on the atf/psf thing.
>
> what atf do you use? and how often do you change it?
>

no response? what atf do you use? and how often do you change it?