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Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 2nd 18, 09:36 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
dsi1[_11_]
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Posts: 331
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 5:32:01 PM UTC-10, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Car is just bought by a kid just learning to drive (he's 16).
> 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES
>
> Neighbors asked me to teach him how to replace the oxygen sensor (due to
> emissions code).
>
> The threads were stripped and "filled" with some kind of hardened "metal
> paste".
>
> The new part is a Denso 234-4739 (marked 485000-4060, 07U05)
> The old part is a Denso (marked 234000, 8643, 07E23)
>
> What would you suggest?
> - Tap the threads? (22mm hex nut)
> - New exhaust manifold?
>
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3234632o2sensor01.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8064061o2sensor02.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6399144o2sensor03.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1574232o2sensor04.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9418974o2sensor05.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4183674o2sensor06.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5856176o2sensor07.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3486734o2sensor08.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9694112o2sensor09.jpg
> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5019152o2sensor10.jpg


That metal paste is anti-seize compound. Use a thread chaser before installing the new sensor.

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-12230-O...MW0/ref=sr_1_3
Ads
  #12  
Old August 2nd 18, 01:14 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
fozz89
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Posts: 1
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold

replying to Arlen Holder, fozz89 wrote:
You could try and tap. (cant see your pictures BTW) It depends on how much
material is missing from the original threads. I dont know my way around Jap
cars too well but usually with the right equipment you can just flash the PCM
and make emissions BS go away permanently (along with your catalytic
converter) More HPs, Better mileage, more crying liberals.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...m-1171791-.htm


  #13  
Old August 2nd 18, 02:49 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Bob F
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Posts: 75
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaustmanifold

On 8/1/2018 11:44 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
>> has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
>> combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
>> the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
>> third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
>> the manifold.
>>
>> Very common repair, done all the time.

>
> Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
> moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.
>
> Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
> might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
> that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
> which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).
>
> Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
> https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU
>


That looks just like a helicoil set.
  #14  
Old August 2nd 18, 02:56 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
rbowman
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Posts: 159
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaustmanifold

On 08/01/2018 11:39 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2018 22:26:00 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> Back to your friendly Loctite dealer for the Form-A-Thread kit? Trip to
>> a junkyard for a new manifold if replacing it isn't too painful? Helicoils?

>
> Seems to me the choices are...
> a. New or used manifold (if it's not too hard to replace)
> b. Drill it out and helicoil it (nothing to lose really)
> c. Clean it up with a tap (I don't have the tap, which won't be cheap)
> d. Shove it in there with epoxy (I hate that idea so I don't want to)
>


The helicoil route won't be cheap either. The epoxy route is redneck
engineering at its finest but this is a 14 year old beater, right?

As an aside, general purpose epoxy isn't a good idea for an exhaust
manifold.

https://www.jbweld.com/products/highheat-epoxy-putty


  #15  
Old August 2nd 18, 03:06 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
rbowman
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Posts: 159
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaustmanifold

On 08/02/2018 12:18 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Napa seems to sell a thread chaser for spark plugs, if it's the same thread
> as spark plugs...
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER730


Might work if the threads just need to be cleaned up. There are quite a
few kits for stripped out oil drain plugs. The problem is the cheap ones
are just a slightly oversized tap with a selection of oversized plugs.
The kits that are more like helicoils are expensive.

> This bung might be able to be welded on by a shop if the threads are right:
> https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...plug-kit-3735/


If the manifold is cast iron, welding can be tricky. Brazing may be
better. A good shop will know the best approach.

  #16  
Old August 2nd 18, 03:10 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 98
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold

On 2 Aug 2018 06:59:23 GMT, trader_4 wrote:

> I'm a conservative and I don't think it's a good idea to modify cars
> so they pollute either. Amazing that someone could turn a simple
> repair into that nonsense. Also, with the emissions BS going away
> permanently, I wouldn't be surprised to see it have lower mileage too,
> because the computer winds up running it open loop, guessing at what's
> going on, instead of running it closed loop.


There's a reason I didn't respond to that suggestion of removing emissions.
There is absolutely zero chance we are going to mess with the emissions.
Zero.

It's going to be street legal smogable or we won't do it.
  #17  
Old August 2nd 18, 03:10 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Scott Dorsey
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Posts: 3,914
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold

Arlen Holder > wrote:
>On 1 Aug 2018 21:41:29 GMT, Bob F wrote:
>
>> I'm no expert on this particular situation, but perhaps a helicoil would
>> solve it easily.

>
>I guess it can't hurt.
>I can contact Denso to figure out the thread pitch for their O2 sensors.


You have it out, measure the pitch.
The helicoil is probably the easiest solution and I am generally a fan of
the things.

>I was thinking of cleaning up the threads, but they look really bad.
>How on earth can ANYONE do that to a bunch of threads?
>
>What did they do?


They tried to remove a stuck oxygen sensor cold, maybe without even using
a proper penetrating oil, and they just put force on it until it deformed
and eventually tore itself out.

>It's not even hard to get to ... it's right there ... in front.


Are you absolutely sure it's the problem also?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #18  
Old August 2nd 18, 03:55 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 98
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold

On 2 Aug 2018 07:10:52 GMT, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> You have it out, measure the pitch.

From research since yesterday, all oxygen sensors seem to be M18x1.5 so I'm
clear on that.

> The helicoil is probably the easiest solution and I am generally a fan of
> the things.


Thanks. I think my current plan is:
a. Pick up a thread chaser & try that
b. If that can'd be found, consider a junkyard exhaust manifold
c. If that fails, consider a new one
d. If that's too pricey, consider a helicoil kit (but they're pricey too)
e. Maybe even consider drilling and then inserting a threaded bung

> They tried to remove a stuck oxygen sensor cold, maybe without even using
> a proper penetrating oil, and they just put force on it until it deformed
> and eventually tore itself out.


Jesus. Who would do that. I have never stripped a thread coming out!
(I've stripped threads going in, but never coming out.)

> Are you absolutely sure it's the problem also?


It is now.
  #19  
Old August 2nd 18, 04:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Steve W.[_6_]
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Posts: 1,161
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaust manifold

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
>> has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
>> combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
>> the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
>> third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
>> the manifold.
>>
>> Very common repair, done all the time.

>
> Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
> moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.
>
> Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
> might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
> that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
> which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).
>
> Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
> https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU


Plug threads are M18 x 1.5 or M14 x 1.25 on most automobiles.
The M18 are the older plugs and O2 sensors and the M14 are the common
peanut plugs used these days.

Heat cycling will have made the iron harder to work with but the tools
used are designed to handle that.

That kit would work but I like using a solid insert myself, they hold up
better. I use timesert myself.

If you check with many of the chain parts stores they may have a thread
repair kit as a "loaner tool". You "rent" the tool use it, return it in
good shape and get your money back. You pay for the insert(s) you use.
A lot cheaper than buying the kit for a one time repair.



--
Steve W.
  #20  
Old August 3rd 18, 12:33 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Terry Coombs[_2_]
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Posts: 8
Default Advice for stripped threads upstream oxygen sensor exhaustmanifold

On 8/2/2018 1:44 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2018 23:30:57 GMT, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> Same threads as a spark plug. The easy repair is a plug rethread kit. It
>> has an oversized insert with a self guiding fluted cutter/tap
>> combination. Then you trim the threads on an insert so they don't block
>> the sensor tip. Screw it into place and screw in the sensor. About the
>> third time you drive the car that insert will become a permanent part of
>> the manifold.
>>
>> Very common repair, done all the time.

> Thanks for confirming it's the same threads as a spark plug, which, at the
> moment, seem to be 18x1.5 for them.
>
> Googling, it seems cast iron isn't easy to weld, and that the plug rethread
> might work, but, the heat cycling has likely hardened the bung nut, such
> that it's a LOT harder (some say) to deal with than a spark plug thread
> which is typically in aluminum engine blocks (they say).
>
> Searching for this "plug rethread kit", is this the $62 kit you speak of?
> https://www.amazon.com/Thread-Kits-1.../dp/B0025PQITU


Â**NO*!! That kit uses standard helicoil inserts , which are fine if
you're using spark plugs that use a crush washer to seal .Â* What you
want is similar to one I have and have used , mine is a NAPA auto parts
#770-3223 "Sav-A-Thread" kitÂ* - it's for 14 mm plugs but you need the
one for 18mm plugs . For the heat cycle hardened threaded bung you need
to heat it red hot with a torch and let it cool slowly - even if (and it
has) the steel has absorbed carbon from the exhaust gasses the slow cool
will anneal the metal (will help a great deal if the manifold is hot too
....) . If you can cut it with a file , this kit will work . One
suggestion - drill the hole out enough to clean up the old threads plus
a bit , it makes the ream/tap operation much easier . This kit includes
a punch that upsets the top edge of the insert (solid metal insert)
knurling into the threads to keep it from backing out . This kit is made
by helicoil , you may be able to find it at another retailer - I bought
another from O'Reilly Auto Parts because this one was "lost" in the move
when I left Memphis for rural Arkansas .Â* I've used these kits twice ,
in 2 different vehicles with excellent results . Both were "hemi" type
OHC motors with the spark plug straight down the center of the valve
covers . Both required machining guide bushings to be sure I got the
hole straight (I have a machine shop , it's a "hobby") and both have run
for many thousands of miles trouble-free . Good luck !

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety .
Get off my lawn !

 




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