OT - So Michael...

Joe wrote:
> <big snip>
>
> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so that it
> actually works...

Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has to
occur to the general population before serious action is demanded by the
public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters really
want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his is just a
typical tax and spend politician. They think that since his skin is
black he will actually change things. He won't change anything. All
this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt us in short order so
he isn't the answer.

Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when they are
punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is coming soon
and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security system
resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will take a
leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the problems
and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this person
will have to be outside the two party system.

Michael Johnson > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> <big snip>
>>
>> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so that
it
>> actually works...
>
> Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has to
> occur to the general population before serious action is demanded by
the
> public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters really
> want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his is just a
> typical tax and spend politician. They think that since his skin is
> black he will actually change things. He won't change anything. All
> this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt us in short order
so
> he isn't the answer.

We're already bankrupt. BTW, thanks for trimming the thread.

> Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when they
are
> punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is coming
soon
> and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security
system
> resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will take
a
> leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the
problems
> and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this person
> will have to be outside the two party system.

You've got a good point about social security. I'm on the tail end, so
I'll probably get what I'm expecting (or close to it). But when younger
people realize that they're paying into a system that won't return
anything to them, maybe they'll actually force some change.

At any rate, I think the doomsday you speak of is right around the
corner, at least fiscally. Just a few observations:
* The housing market is in the crapper
* The service sector is way down
* Inflation is edging higher
* Return on investments is in the crapper due to the fed's rate cuts
* Banks and lenders are collapsing all over the place
* We're about to enter a big, fat recession

Better buckle your seat belt.

Joe wrote:
> Michael Johnson > wrote in
> :
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> <big snip>
>>>
>>> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so that
> it
>>> actually works...
>> Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has to
>> occur to the general population before serious action is demanded by
> the
>> public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters really
>> want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his is just a
>> typical tax and spend politician. They think that since his skin is
>> black he will actually change things. He won't change anything. All
>> this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt us in short order
> so
>> he isn't the answer.
>
> We're already bankrupt. BTW, thanks for trimming the thread.

No problem on the trimming. My scroll down key was getting ready to
suffer a heart attack.

>> Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when they
> are
>> punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is coming
> soon
>> and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security
> system
>> resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will take
> a
>> leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the
> problems
>> and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this person
>> will have to be outside the two party system.
>
> You've got a good point about social security. I'm on the tail end, so
> I'll probably get what I'm expecting (or close to it). But when younger
> people realize that they're paying into a system that won't return
> anything to them, maybe they'll actually force some change.

I think it will hit many of the baby boomers. Just wait until the day
comes when they need certain medical treatments and the government won't
approve the it. There is a gender war coming in this country. It will
pit the working people against the retirees because the working people's
taxes are going to go through the roof to pay for the entitlements of
the boomers if they aren't trimmed substantially.

> At any rate, I think the doomsday you speak of is right around the
> corner, at least fiscally. Just a few observations:
> * The housing market is in the crapper

The housing market will rebound one more time, IMO. Then the flood of
houses on the market from the boomers will be the real killer of the
housing market for quite some time. Many won't be able to afford their
mortgages on social security checks and they don't have enough
retirement savings to make up the difference. They will be going to
senior apartments for the cheap rent. The result is a continual flood
of housing being dumped on the market for years and years. The only
thing that can possibly keep this from happening is to allow much more
legal immigration to bolster up the work force numbers.

> * The service sector is way down

This will be OK, IMO. The boomers will need a lot of services and many
will take the "Walmart greeter" type jobs to make ends meet.

> * Inflation is edging higher

I know you don't agree but so far inflation has been kept at bay
overall. The government will do anything to keep inflation low and has
done that over the past several decades.

> * Return on investments is in the crapper due to the fed's rate cuts

This is a real problem area. If we lose foreign investment capital then
it will be real ugly for businesses.

> * Banks and lenders are collapsing all over the place

This will all shake out over time. We have got through past banking
problems and this is just the latest one. It is the possible lack of
foreign capital that could be the big problem for banks, IMO.

> * We're about to enter a big, fat recession

I don't know if I would say that just yet or how bad it will be. The
rate cuts will help but they take 6-12 months to show results. I have
been saying for the past 1.5 years that the Fed has been extremely
negligent in dealing with the housing market problems. The economy
can't continue to be healthy with such a large component tanking
severely. I'm in the land development business and can tell you the
housing market is in VERY bad condition. Think of all the services and
products associated with building and furnishing a new house. It
ripples through all kinds of industries and service businesses. It is
now dragging the rest of the economy down. The feds should have started
cutting the prime 18 months ago.

> Better buckle your seat belt.

Let me tell you something. With the housing market in horrible shape I
am already fully **** hammered. I can't get any lower and I might be
getting a lot of company in the economic dungeon before long. Shall I
save anyone a seat?

"Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> Joe wrote:
>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Joe wrote:
>>>> <big snip>
>>>>
>>>> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so that
>> it
>>>> actually works...
>>> Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has to
>>> occur to the general population before serious action is demanded by
>> the
>>> public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters really
>>> want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his is just a
>>> typical tax and spend politician. They think that since his skin is
>>> black he will actually change things. He won't change anything. All
>>> this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt us in short order
>> so
>>> he isn't the answer.
>>
>> We're already bankrupt. BTW, thanks for trimming the thread.
>
> No problem on the trimming. My scroll down key was getting ready to
> suffer a heart attack.
>
>>> Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when they
>> are
>>> punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is coming
>> soon
>>> and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security
>> system
>>> resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will take
>> a
>>> leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the
>> problems
>>> and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this person
>>> will have to be outside the two party system.
>>
>> You've got a good point about social security. I'm on the tail end, so
>> I'll probably get what I'm expecting (or close to it). But when younger
>> people realize that they're paying into a system that won't return
>> anything to them, maybe they'll actually force some change.
>
> I think it will hit many of the baby boomers. Just wait until the day
> comes when they need certain medical treatments and the government won't
> approve the it. There is a gender war coming in this country. It will
> pit the working people against the retirees because the working people's
> taxes are going to go through the roof to pay for the entitlements of the
> boomers if they aren't trimmed substantially.
>
>> At any rate, I think the doomsday you speak of is right around the
>> corner, at least fiscally. Just a few observations:
>> * The housing market is in the crapper
>
> The housing market will rebound one more time, IMO. Then the flood of
> houses on the market from the boomers will be the real killer of the
> housing market for quite some time. Many won't be able to afford their
> mortgages on social security checks and they don't have enough retirement
> savings to make up the difference. They will be going to senior
> apartments for the cheap rent. The result is a continual flood of housing
> being dumped on the market for years and years. The only thing that can
> possibly keep this from happening is to allow much more legal immigration
> to bolster up the work force numbers.
>
>> * The service sector is way down
>
> This will be OK, IMO. The boomers will need a lot of services and many
> will take the "Walmart greeter" type jobs to make ends meet.
>
>> * Inflation is edging higher
>
> I know you don't agree but so far inflation has been kept at bay overall.
> The government will do anything to keep inflation low and has done that
> over the past several decades.
>
>> * Return on investments is in the crapper due to the fed's rate cuts
>
> This is a real problem area. If we lose foreign investment capital then
> it will be real ugly for businesses.
>
>> * Banks and lenders are collapsing all over the place
>
> This will all shake out over time. We have got through past banking
> problems and this is just the latest one. It is the possible lack of
> foreign capital that could be the big problem for banks, IMO.
>
>> * We're about to enter a big, fat recession
>
> I don't know if I would say that just yet or how bad it will be. The rate
> cuts will help but they take 6-12 months to show results. I have been
> saying for the past 1.5 years that the Fed has been extremely negligent in
> dealing with the housing market problems. The economy can't continue to
> be healthy with such a large component tanking severely. I'm in the land
> development business and can tell you the housing market is in VERY bad
> condition. Think of all the services and products associated with
> building and furnishing a new house. It ripples through all kinds of
> industries and service businesses. It is now dragging the rest of the
> economy down. The feds should have started cutting the prime 18 months
> ago.
>
>> Better buckle your seat belt.
>
> Let me tell you something. With the housing market in horrible shape I am
> already fully **** hammered. I can't get any lower and I might be getting
> a lot of company in the economic dungeon before long. Shall I save anyone
> a seat?

Oh, you guys worry too much.

We're going to add 20,000,000 Mexicans to the tax rolls, so us tail-end
boomers don't need to worry. It's the people in their 30s, possibly 40s,
that can kiss Social Security goodbye.

dwight

dwight wrote:

>>> Better buckle your seat belt.
>> Let me tell you something. With the housing market in horrible shape I am
>> already fully **** hammered. I can't get any lower and I might be getting
>> a lot of company in the economic dungeon before long. Shall I save anyone
>> a seat?
>
> Oh, you guys worry too much.
>
> We're going to add 20,000,000 Mexicans to the tax rolls, so us tail-end
> boomers don't need to worry. It's the people in their 30s, possibly 40s,
> that can kiss Social Security goodbye.
>
> dwight
>
>

I've a government retirement, I won't see more than $100 a month
from SS if that.

--
"Yah know I hate it when forces gather in ma' fringe..." - Sheogorath

"Daytime television sucked 20 years ago,
and it still sucks today!" - Marc Bissonette

dwight wrote:
> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Joe wrote:
>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so that
>>> it
>>>>> actually works...
>>>> Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has to
>>>> occur to the general population before serious action is demanded by
>>> the
>>>> public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters really
>>>> want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his is just a
>>>> typical tax and spend politician. They think that since his skin is
>>>> black he will actually change things. He won't change anything. All
>>>> this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt us in short order
>>> so
>>>> he isn't the answer.
>>> We're already bankrupt. BTW, thanks for trimming the thread.
>> No problem on the trimming. My scroll down key was getting ready to
>> suffer a heart attack.
>>
>>>> Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when they
>>> are
>>>> punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is coming
>>> soon
>>>> and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security
>>> system
>>>> resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will take
>>> a
>>>> leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the
>>> problems
>>>> and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this person
>>>> will have to be outside the two party system.
>>> You've got a good point about social security. I'm on the tail end, so
>>> I'll probably get what I'm expecting (or close to it). But when younger
>>> people realize that they're paying into a system that won't return
>>> anything to them, maybe they'll actually force some change.
>> I think it will hit many of the baby boomers. Just wait until the day
>> comes when they need certain medical treatments and the government won't
>> approve the it. There is a gender war coming in this country. It will
>> pit the working people against the retirees because the working people's
>> taxes are going to go through the roof to pay for the entitlements of the
>> boomers if they aren't trimmed substantially.
>>
>>> At any rate, I think the doomsday you speak of is right around the
>>> corner, at least fiscally. Just a few observations:
>>> * The housing market is in the crapper
>> The housing market will rebound one more time, IMO. Then the flood of
>> houses on the market from the boomers will be the real killer of the
>> housing market for quite some time. Many won't be able to afford their
>> mortgages on social security checks and they don't have enough retirement
>> savings to make up the difference. They will be going to senior
>> apartments for the cheap rent. The result is a continual flood of housing
>> being dumped on the market for years and years. The only thing that can
>> possibly keep this from happening is to allow much more legal immigration
>> to bolster up the work force numbers.
>>
>>> * The service sector is way down
>> This will be OK, IMO. The boomers will need a lot of services and many
>> will take the "Walmart greeter" type jobs to make ends meet.
>>
>>> * Inflation is edging higher
>> I know you don't agree but so far inflation has been kept at bay overall.
>> The government will do anything to keep inflation low and has done that
>> over the past several decades.
>>
>>> * Return on investments is in the crapper due to the fed's rate cuts
>> This is a real problem area. If we lose foreign investment capital then
>> it will be real ugly for businesses.
>>
>>> * Banks and lenders are collapsing all over the place
>> This will all shake out over time. We have got through past banking
>> problems and this is just the latest one. It is the possible lack of
>> foreign capital that could be the big problem for banks, IMO.
>>
>>> * We're about to enter a big, fat recession
>> I don't know if I would say that just yet or how bad it will be. The rate
>> cuts will help but they take 6-12 months to show results. I have been
>> saying for the past 1.5 years that the Fed has been extremely negligent in
>> dealing with the housing market problems. The economy can't continue to
>> be healthy with such a large component tanking severely. I'm in the land
>> development business and can tell you the housing market is in VERY bad
>> condition. Think of all the services and products associated with
>> building and furnishing a new house. It ripples through all kinds of
>> industries and service businesses. It is now dragging the rest of the
>> economy down. The feds should have started cutting the prime 18 months
>> ago.
>>
>>> Better buckle your seat belt.
>> Let me tell you something. With the housing market in horrible shape I am
>> already fully **** hammered. I can't get any lower and I might be getting
>> a lot of company in the economic dungeon before long. Shall I save anyone
>> a seat?
>
> Oh, you guys worry too much.
>
> We're going to add 20,000,000 Mexicans to the tax rolls, so us tail-end
> boomers don't need to worry. It's the people in their 30s, possibly 40s,
> that can kiss Social Security goodbye.

Wait until you are 85 years old and have a tumor the size of a small
child growing on you somewhere. Then the government doctor says you're
too old for an operation and chemotherapy or they just put you on the
"list". The trouble is the "list" is for getting you a casket.

My mother-in-law was a life long Democrat. Voted for FDR and stuck by
Bill Clinton even though she knew he had sex with that woman. She was a
WAC in the Army during WWII and believed that the government was going
to take care of her in her older years. Then she became too stricken
with Alzheimer's disease to stay on her own or to live with family
without some supervision through the day. Well, she was supposed to get
admittance to a VA assisted living facility and they denied her a place
there. When she heard this she looked at my wife, her daughter, and
said "They lied to me didn't they?" She finally knew the truth that the
government wasn't going to deliver more than the bare minimum and
nothing else. She ended up with terminal cancer before she had to leave
the apartment and spent her last months in a nursing home.

We are all going to come to the same realization one day. The smart
ones will have prepared for it but the majority of baby boomers will not
have. Then when they need assistance beyond a social security check the
government will take every penny and possession they have until NOTHING
is left. They did this very thing with my Mother.

Dwight, do you really think 20,000,000 Mexicans earning minimum wage are
going to make a dent in the tab the boomers are going to rack up? We
need 20,000,000 phDs earning $250k per year just pay for the Geritol supply.

"Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
...
>
> Dwight, do you really think 20,000,000 Mexicans earning minimum wage are
> going to make a dent in the tab the boomers are going to rack up? We need
> 20,000,000 phDs earning $250k per year just pay for the Geritol supply.

Michael, I fully expect to die one day.

It could be today, it could be another forty years, but one day I am going
to die. I never thought I'd see 80, but if I make it to 72, I'll consider
myself on Bonus Time.

And I never expected the Gov'mint to take care of me, either. Frankly, being
solidly middle class, I think it's up to me to do that. Gov'mint assistance
is for those who need it.

And somewhere around my 45th birthday, I came to the realization that there
would be no Social Security benefits there for me when I retired. I don't
believe in fiscal shell games. My official retirement age was bumped to 67,
and I expect it'll be bumped again (70?). But by the time I get there, I'll
find out that I don't qualify (Catch 22).

Social Security was a great idea in its day, but it's a program that really
shouldn't exist, especially on the grand scale it has become. Hell, given
today's life expectancies, benefits shouldn't even kick in until we reach
the age of 75 now. The single biggest reason that the system is bankrupt
(aside from the fact that all of the money was stolen) is that we still
pretend that retirement age should be 65 (or 62 for those of us who can).

dwight

Michael Johnson > wrote in
:

> dwight wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Joe wrote:
>>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so
>>>>>> that
>>>> it
>>>>>> actually works...
>>>>> Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has
>>>>> to occur to the general population before serious action is
>>>>> demanded by
>>>> the
>>>>> public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters
>>>>> really want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his
>>>>> is just a typical tax and spend politician. They think that since
>>>>> his skin is black he will actually change things. He won't change
>>>>> anything. All this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt
>>>>> us in short order
>>>> so
>>>>> he isn't the answer.
>>>> We're already bankrupt. BTW, thanks for trimming the thread.
>>> No problem on the trimming. My scroll down key was getting ready to
>>> suffer a heart attack.
>>>
>>>>> Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when
>>>>> they
>>>> are
>>>>> punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is
>>>>> coming
>>>> soon
>>>>> and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security
>>>> system
>>>>> resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will
>>>>> take
>>>> a
>>>>> leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the
>>>> problems
>>>>> and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this
>>>>> person will have to be outside the two party system.
>>>> You've got a good point about social security. I'm on the tail
>>>> end, so I'll probably get what I'm expecting (or close to it). But
>>>> when younger people realize that they're paying into a system that
>>>> won't return anything to them, maybe they'll actually force some
>>>> change.
>>> I think it will hit many of the baby boomers. Just wait until the
>>> day comes when they need certain medical treatments and the
>>> government won't approve the it. There is a gender war coming in
>>> this country. It will pit the working people against the retirees
>>> because the working people's taxes are going to go through the roof
>>> to pay for the entitlements of the boomers if they aren't trimmed
>>> substantially.
>>>
>>>> At any rate, I think the doomsday you speak of is right around the
>>>> corner, at least fiscally. Just a few observations:
>>>> * The housing market is in the crapper
>>> The housing market will rebound one more time, IMO. Then the flood
>>> of houses on the market from the boomers will be the real killer of
>>> the housing market for quite some time. Many won't be able to
>>> afford their mortgages on social security checks and they don't have
>>> enough retirement savings to make up the difference. They will be
>>> going to senior apartments for the cheap rent. The result is a
>>> continual flood of housing being dumped on the market for years and
>>> years. The only thing that can possibly keep this from happening is
>>> to allow much more legal immigration to bolster up the work force
>>> numbers.

The housing market will always "rebound", but what it rebounds to is the
question. Right now, builders are going out of business (increasing the
unemployment figures) and the domino effect is in full force. With the
increasing number of "pre-owned" homes on the market, there's no
immediate relief in sight for homebuilders.

>>>> * The service sector is way down
>>> This will be OK, IMO. The boomers will need a lot of services and
>>> many will take the "Walmart greeter" type jobs to make ends meet.

There won't be any money left to hire in the service sector. Walmart
greeters will be among the first to go.

>>>> * Inflation is edging higher
>>> I know you don't agree but so far inflation has been kept at bay
>>> overall. The government will do anything to keep inflation low and
>>> has done that over the past several decades.

Perhaps I'm using the wrong term, but I'm talking about the ever-
increasing cost of living that's completely out of step with earnings.
There's no end in sight for this.

>>>> * Return on investments is in the crapper due to the fed's rate
>>>> cuts
>>> This is a real problem area. If we lose foreign investment capital
>>> then it will be real ugly for businesses.

Thanks to the current administration (had to get that jab in there),
fiscal America is sinking like a stone.

>>>> * Banks and lenders are collapsing all over the place
>>> This will all shake out over time. We have got through past banking
>>> problems and this is just the latest one. It is the possible lack
>>> of foreign capital that could be the big problem for banks, IMO.

I think it's fairly serious. Witness the world-wide effect the subprime
fiasco had.

>>>> * We're about to enter a big, fat recession
>>> I don't know if I would say that just yet or how bad it will be.

Talk to everyday working people and see what the consensus is.

>>> The rate cuts will help but they take 6-12 months to show results.
>>> I have been saying for the past 1.5 years that the Fed has been
>>> extremely negligent in dealing with the housing market problems.

So what else is new?

>>> The economy can't continue to be healthy with such a large component
>>> tanking severely.

Exactly. This is one of the main reasons why we'll be in a recession
soon IMO.

> I'm in the land development business and can tell
>>> you the housing market is in VERY bad condition. Think of all the
>>> services and products associated with building and furnishing a new
>>> house. It ripples through all kinds of industries and service
>>> businesses. It is now dragging the rest of the economy down. The
>>> feds should have started cutting the prime 18 months ago.

You're making my point for me. Again, this is one of the big reasons
why we are headed into a recession.

>>>> Better buckle your seat belt.
>>> Let me tell you something. With the housing market in horrible
>>> shape I am already fully **** hammered. I can't get any lower and I
>>> might be getting a lot of company in the economic dungeon before
>>> long.

I hear you big time. But don't kid yourself - it can get worse.

> Shall I save anyone a seat?

Yup. Better save a bunch of 'em.

>> Oh, you guys worry too much.

Maybe so. Let's fire up a doob and all sing 'Kumbaya'. While I'm
waiting, let me go take care of that baboon who left his rap music
blaring at the pumps while he goes in to buy those stupid cherry cigars.
A few rounds into his dash oughta take care of it...

>> We're going to add 20,000,000 Mexicans to the tax rolls, so us
>> tail-end boomers don't need to worry. It's the people in their 30s,
>> possibly 40s, that can kiss Social Security goodbye.

Mierda!

> Wait until you are 85 years old and have a tumor the size of a small
> child growing on you somewhere. Then the government doctor says
> you're too old for an operation and chemotherapy or they just put you
> on the "list". The trouble is the "list" is for getting you a casket.

I'll never reach 85.

> My mother-in-law was a life long Democrat. Voted for FDR and stuck by
> Bill Clinton even though she knew he had sex with that woman.

LOL!

> She was
> a WAC in the Army during WWII and believed that the government was
> going to take care of her in her older years. Then she became too
> stricken with Alzheimer's disease to stay on her own or to live with
> family without some supervision through the day. Well, she was
> supposed to get admittance to a VA assisted living facility and they
> denied her a place there. When she heard this she looked at my wife,
> her daughter, and said "They lied to me didn't they?" She finally
> knew the truth that the government wasn't going to deliver more than
> the bare minimum and nothing else. She ended up with terminal cancer
> before she had to leave the apartment and spent her last months in a
> nursing home.

That's a damn shame. But this crap is still going on today. Look at
how poorly Iraq vets are being treated. Remember Walter Reed from last
year?

> We are all going to come to the same realization one day. The smart
> ones will have prepared for it but the majority of baby boomers will
> not have. Then when they need assistance beyond a social security
> check the government will take every penny and possession they have
> until NOTHING is left. They did this very thing with my Mother.

And this is what needs to be fixed. None of these yahoos running for
president will deal with it.

> Dwight, do you really think 20,000,000 Mexicans earning minimum wage
> are going to make a dent in the tab the boomers are going to rack up?
> We need 20,000,000 phDs earning $250k per year just pay for the
> Geritol supply.

Please shoot me now - I'll feel better.

dwight wrote:
> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dwight, do you really think 20,000,000 Mexicans earning minimum wage are
>> going to make a dent in the tab the boomers are going to rack up? We need
>> 20,000,000 phDs earning $250k per year just pay for the Geritol supply.
>
> Michael, I fully expect to die one day.
>
> It could be today, it could be another forty years, but one day I am going
> to die. I never thought I'd see 80, but if I make it to 72, I'll consider
> myself on Bonus Time.
>
> And I never expected the Gov'mint to take care of me, either. Frankly, being
> solidly middle class, I think it's up to me to do that. Gov'mint assistance
> is for those who need it.
>
> And somewhere around my 45th birthday, I came to the realization that there
> would be no Social Security benefits there for me when I retired. I don't
> believe in fiscal shell games. My official retirement age was bumped to 67,
> and I expect it'll be bumped again (70?). But by the time I get there, I'll
> find out that I don't qualify (Catch 22).
>
> Social Security was a great idea in its day, but it's a program that really
> shouldn't exist, especially on the grand scale it has become. Hell, given
> today's life expectancies, benefits shouldn't even kick in until we reach
> the age of 75 now. The single biggest reason that the system is bankrupt
> (aside from the fact that all of the money was stolen) is that we still
> pretend that retirement age should be 65 (or 62 for those of us who can).

I want to die the day before I can no longer stand to **** or wipe my
own ass in my own bathroom. Isn't it depressing how these things are
something you actually think about as you get older?

Joe wrote:
> Michael Johnson > wrote in
> :
>
>> dwight wrote:
>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we've come full circle back to how to change the system so
>>>>>>> that
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> actually works...
>>>>>> Looking at the past it seems to me that something catastrophic has
>>>>>> to occur to the general population before serious action is
>>>>>> demanded by
>>>>> the
>>>>>> public. You can see it happening with Obama. His supporters
>>>>>> really want to believe the words coming out of his mouth but his
>>>>>> is just a typical tax and spend politician. They think that since
>>>>>> his skin is black he will actually change things. He won't change
>>>>>> anything. All this stuff he claims he will deliver would bankrupt
>>>>>> us in short order
>>>>> so
>>>>>> he isn't the answer.
>>>>> We're already bankrupt. BTW, thanks for trimming the thread.
>>>> No problem on the trimming. My scroll down key was getting ready to
>>>> suffer a heart attack.
>>>>
>>>>>> Like I said to Dwight, people will only demand real change when
>>>>>> they
>>>>> are
>>>>>> punched square in the face by hardship. I think this day is
>>>>>> coming
>>>>> soon
>>>>>> and will be brought about by the collapse of the social security
>>>>> system
>>>>>> resulting from the retirement of the baby boomers. Then it will
>>>>>> take
>>>>> a
>>>>>> leader that can clearly, effectively and truthfully explain the
>>>>> problems
>>>>>> and their solutions and promote them to act. I also think this
>>>>>> person will have to be outside the two party system.
>>>>> You've got a good point about social security. I'm on the tail
>>>>> end, so I'll probably get what I'm expecting (or close to it). But
>>>>> when younger people realize that they're paying into a system that
>>>>> won't return anything to them, maybe they'll actually force some
>>>>> change.
>>>> I think it will hit many of the baby boomers. Just wait until the
>>>> day comes when they need certain medical treatments and the
>>>> government won't approve the it. There is a gender war coming in
>>>> this country. It will pit the working people against the retirees
>>>> because the working people's taxes are going to go through the roof
>>>> to pay for the entitlements of the boomers if they aren't trimmed
>>>> substantially.
>>>>
>>>>> At any rate, I think the doomsday you speak of is right around the
>>>>> corner, at least fiscally. Just a few observations:
>>>>> * The housing market is in the crapper
>>>> The housing market will rebound one more time, IMO. Then the flood
>>>> of houses on the market from the boomers will be the real killer of
>>>> the housing market for quite some time. Many won't be able to
>>>> afford their mortgages on social security checks and they don't have
>>>> enough retirement savings to make up the difference. They will be
>>>> going to senior apartments for the cheap rent. The result is a
>>>> continual flood of housing being dumped on the market for years and
>>>> years. The only thing that can possibly keep this from happening is
>>>> to allow much more legal immigration to bolster up the work force
>>>> numbers.
>
> The housing market will always "rebound", but what it rebounds to is the
> question. Right now, builders are going out of business (increasing the
> unemployment figures) and the domino effect is in full force. With the
> increasing number of "pre-owned" homes on the market, there's no
> immediate relief in sight for homebuilders.

This downturn isn't as bad as it was in the early 1990s. Builders come
and go, merge together etc. so don't make that an indicator. The ones
that didn't overpay for land will be fine. My personal experience with
builders has shown them to be lying scumbags. I don't have any sympathy
for them in the least.

>>>>> * The service sector is way down
>>>> This will be OK, IMO. The boomers will need a lot of services and
>>>> many will take the "Walmart greeter" type jobs to make ends meet.
>
> There won't be any money left to hire in the service sector. Walmart
> greeters will be among the first to go.

There is always fast food. That will never go away in this country.

>>>>> * Inflation is edging higher
>>>> I know you don't agree but so far inflation has been kept at bay
>>>> overall. The government will do anything to keep inflation low and
>>>> has done that over the past several decades.
>
> Perhaps I'm using the wrong term, but I'm talking about the ever-
> increasing cost of living that's completely out of step with earnings.
> There's no end in sight for this.

The rise in gasoline has been the big hit for most people but keep in
mind how long fuel prices remained stagnant. The price adjustments now
are not that far out of line if priced had raised consistently over the
years. If we start using our food to produce fuel our cars then that
could really increase food costs. This is why I don't think biofuels
are a good idea.

>>>>> * Return on investments is in the crapper due to the fed's rate
>>>>> cuts
>>>> This is a real problem area. If we lose foreign investment capital
>>>> then it will be real ugly for businesses.
>
> Thanks to the current administration (had to get that jab in there),
> fiscal America is sinking like a stone.

You do know that all this sub-prime mess got rolling under Clinton?

>>>>> * Banks and lenders are collapsing all over the place
>>>> This will all shake out over time. We have got through past banking
>>>> problems and this is just the latest one. It is the possible lack
>>>> of foreign capital that could be the big problem for banks, IMO.
>
> I think it's fairly serious. Witness the world-wide effect the subprime
> fiasco had.

It is fairly serious but not devastating.

>>>>> * We're about to enter a big, fat recession
>>>> I don't know if I would say that just yet or how bad it will be.
>
> Talk to everyday working people and see what the consensus is.

Those numbers change with the wind. Next week consumer confidence could
be off the charts.

>>>> The rate cuts will help but they take 6-12 months to show results.
>>>> I have been saying for the past 1.5 years that the Fed has been
>>>> extremely negligent in dealing with the housing market problems.
>
> So what else is new?
>
>>>> The economy can't continue to be healthy with such a large component
>>>> tanking severely.
>
> Exactly. This is one of the main reasons why we'll be in a recession
> soon IMO.
>
>> I'm in the land development business and can tell
>>>> you the housing market is in VERY bad condition. Think of all the
>>>> services and products associated with building and furnishing a new
>>>> house. It ripples through all kinds of industries and service
>>>> businesses. It is now dragging the rest of the economy down. The
>>>> feds should have started cutting the prime 18 months ago.
>
> You're making my point for me. Again, this is one of the big reasons
> why we are headed into a recession.
>
>>>>> Better buckle your seat belt.
>>>> Let me tell you something. With the housing market in horrible
>>>> shape I am already fully **** hammered. I can't get any lower and I
>>>> might be getting a lot of company in the economic dungeon before
>>>> long.
>
> I hear you big time. But don't kid yourself - it can get worse.

Not in my camp. We have gone into hibernation and don't plan to wake up
until the spring of 2009. It is funny to see these local governments
here that trash developers during good times and now are having big
budget shortfalls because they aren't getting developer's money due to
the depression of the housing market. I guess we aren't so bad after all.

>> Shall I save anyone a seat?
>
> Yup. Better save a bunch of 'em.
>
>>> Oh, you guys worry too much.
>
> Maybe so. Let's fire up a doob and all sing 'Kumbaya'. While I'm
> waiting, let me go take care of that baboon who left his rap music
> blaring at the pumps while he goes in to buy those stupid cherry cigars.
> A few rounds into his dash oughta take care of it...
>
>>> We're going to add 20,000,000 Mexicans to the tax rolls, so us
>>> tail-end boomers don't need to worry. It's the people in their 30s,
>>> possibly 40s, that can kiss Social Security goodbye.
>
> Mierda!
>
>> Wait until you are 85 years old and have a tumor the size of a small
>> child growing on you somewhere. Then the government doctor says
>> you're too old for an operation and chemotherapy or they just put you
>> on the "list". The trouble is the "list" is for getting you a casket.
>
> I'll never reach 85.

If you have good private health insurance they will make sure you reach
95 years old. You, my friend, are a cash cow to the medical community.

>> My mother-in-law was a life long Democrat. Voted for FDR and stuck by
>> Bill Clinton even though she knew he had sex with that woman.
>
> LOL!
>
>> She was
>> a WAC in the Army during WWII and believed that the government was
>> going to take care of her in her older years. Then she became too
>> stricken with Alzheimer's disease to stay on her own or to live with
>> family without some supervision through the day. Well, she was
>> supposed to get admittance to a VA assisted living facility and they
>> denied her a place there. When she heard this she looked at my wife,
>> her daughter, and said "They lied to me didn't they?" She finally
>> knew the truth that the government wasn't going to deliver more than
>> the bare minimum and nothing else. She ended up with terminal cancer
>> before she had to leave the apartment and spent her last months in a
>> nursing home.
>
> That's a damn shame. But this crap is still going on today. Look at
> how poorly Iraq vets are being treated. Remember Walter Reed from last
> year?
>
>> We are all going to come to the same realization one day. The smart
>> ones will have prepared for it but the majority of baby boomers will
>> not have. Then when they need assistance beyond a social security
>> check the government will take every penny and possession they have
>> until NOTHING is left. They did this very thing with my Mother.
>
> And this is what needs to be fixed. None of these yahoos running for
> president will deal with it.
>
>> Dwight, do you really think 20,000,000 Mexicans earning minimum wage
>> are going to make a dent in the tab the boomers are going to rack up?
>> We need 20,000,000 phDs earning $250k per year just pay for the
>> Geritol supply.
>
> Please shoot me now - I'll feel better.

Maybe we can all form a line and get the most use out of one bullet?