Slower traffic: keep one lane left of the right lane

On 2013-12-20 07:53:17 +0000, Brent said:

> On 2013-12-20, Brent > wrote:
>> On 2013-12-20, Alan Baker > wrote:
>
> I found my example video of this....
>
> I've taken pre-emptive action and moved over for the mergers. Now look
> what Mario does: https://www.youtube.com/v/RRQOC1-JSXM

OK...

....how were you worse off from a safety perspective for having taken
that preemptive action?

"Alan Baker" > wrote in message
news:2013122121294345928-alangbaker@telusnet...
> On 2013-12-20 07:53:17 +0000, Brent said:
>
>> On 2013-12-20, Brent > wrote:
>>> On 2013-12-20, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>
>> I found my example video of this....
>>
>> I've taken pre-emptive action and moved over for the mergers. Now look
>> what Mario does: https://www.youtube.com/v/RRQOC1-JSXM
>
> OK...
>
> ...how were you worse off from a safety perspective for having taken that
> preemptive action?
>
There are some drivers out there who aren't satisified with their driving
unless...

a) They have taught another driver a lesson by aggressively passing another
driver; or
b) Have taught another driver a lesson by cutting them off; or
c) Taught another driver a lesson by running them off the road; or
d) They have tried to scare another driver into thinking they will be
rear-ended by refusing to brake when they brake, not otherwise keeping a
safe following distance.

For the fourth one (d), I just keep flashing the brake lights as I brake to
a stop (press/release, as if pumping the brakes to avoid a wheel lockup).
You know what? They do back off.

On 2013-12-22, Alan Baker > wrote:
> On 2013-12-20 07:53:17 +0000, Brent said:
>
>> On 2013-12-20, Brent > wrote:
>>> On 2013-12-20, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>
>> I found my example video of this....
>>
>> I've taken pre-emptive action and moved over for the mergers. Now look
>> what Mario does: https://www.youtube.com/v/RRQOC1-JSXM
>
> OK...
>
> ...how were you worse off from a safety perspective for having taken
> that preemptive action?

I would have had a clear lane if I had done nothing. Instead I had
avoid crashing into this guy after he cut me off and hit the brakes.
Also even he didn't slide over, staying in the right lane wouldn't have
had the braking.

Heres's another instance where I move over pre-emptively, for someone
entering a surface street:

https://youtube.googleapis.com/v/vTCaKOczj-M

You'll probably reply this guy saw me and chose to slide over two lanes
to avoid me. Perhaps, but even then it highlights the pointlessness of
it.

On 2013-12-22, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> "Alan Baker" > wrote in message
> news:2013122121294345928-alangbaker@telusnet...
>> On 2013-12-20 07:53:17 +0000, Brent said:
>>
>>> On 2013-12-20, Brent > wrote:
>>>> On 2013-12-20, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>>
>>> I found my example video of this....
>>>
>>> I've taken pre-emptive action and moved over for the mergers. Now look
>>> what Mario does: https://www.youtube.com/v/RRQOC1-JSXM
>>
>> OK...
>>
>> ...how were you worse off from a safety perspective for having taken that
>> preemptive action?

> There are some drivers out there who aren't satisified with their driving
> unless...
>
> a) They have taught another driver a lesson by aggressively passing another
> driver; or
> b) Have taught another driver a lesson by cutting them off; or
> c) Taught another driver a lesson by running them off the road; or
> d) They have tried to scare another driver into thinking they will be
> rear-ended by refusing to brake when they brake, not otherwise keeping a
> safe following distance.
>
> For the fourth one (d), I just keep flashing the brake lights as I brake to
> a stop (press/release, as if pumping the brakes to avoid a wheel lockup).
> You know what? They do back off.

So your goal is to teach them a lesson. No wonder you think that's
what others are doing. Also, given the context of this interjection I
am getting the feeling you cut people off then blame them for the lack
of following distance, thus making them deserving of a lesson about a
safe following distance.

On 12/20/2013 02:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2013-12-19 07:13:19 +0000, Arif Khokar said:

>> Brent is correct. I don't bother switching lanes most of the time and
>> find that the person merging will make an adjustment to avoid a
>> collision.
>
> So you choose to leave your safety in the hands of someone else who MUST
> be making a speed adjustment.

Let's turn this around. The one who's merging leaves their safety in
the hands of through traffic believing that they're the one's who must
make the speed adjustment (even though they don't have to)?

>> Keep in mind that there are going to be times where you cannot switch
>> lanes due to passing traffic. If you maintain a constant speed,
>> pretty much any driver can figure it out and get behind you. Other
>> than that, they end up stopping in the merging lane.
>
> "Pretty much any driver" will also not suddenly change lanes when you're
> right beside them...

That's why you leave yourself an out. I'm not going to suddenly
decrease my speed substantially when passing an interchange risking
other traffic rear-ending my vehicle.

> ...but that doesn't make being right beside another car in another lane
> something you don't need to avoid when possible.

Tell that to the person who's merging. When I'm the one merging, I
don't stay directly beside a vehicle when I'm merging onto the highway.

So I was driving back from a shopping trip last night in the right lane
going about 70 mph (speed limit was 65 mph IIRC). As I pass an
interchange, a car comes up the acceleration ramp about 200 feet ahead
of me going roughly the same speed. This acceleration ramp is roughly
2000 feet long according to the signage. I maintain a constant speed in
the right lane fully expecting this person to merge ahead of me, but he
remained in the acceleration lane. Just as the acceleration lane was
ending, he suddenly slowed down and merged in behind me.

A couple of things ran through my mind:

1. Was this driver a complete idiot that couldn't tell he had room to
merge the whole time?

2. If not #1, could he not use the roughly 20 seconds to decide to speed
up just a little bit to open up a gap and come in ahead of me like I
originally thought he was going to?

Could some other posters in this group shed some light on that other
driver's actions?

Arif Khokar wrote: "2. If not #1, could he not use the roughly 20 seconds to decide to speed up just a little bit to open up a gap and come in ahead of me like I originally thought he was going to?

Could some other posters in this group shed some light on that other "

Peoples' depth perception varies greatly, along with their perception of closing speed between the approaching vehicle(yours in your case) and theirs.

This leads to their spending excessive time trying to judge how quickly you are bearing down on them, and not exerting enough pressure on their accelerator pedal to merge smoothly and safely in front of you with time and room to spare.

"Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
...
> So I was driving back from a shopping trip last night in the right lane
> going about 70 mph (speed limit was 65 mph IIRC). As I pass an
> interchange, a car comes up the acceleration ramp about 200 feet ahead of
> me going roughly the same speed. This acceleration ramp is roughly 2000
> feet long according to the signage. I maintain a constant speed in the
> right lane fully expecting this person to merge ahead of me, but he
> remained in the acceleration lane. Just as the acceleration lane was
> ending, he suddenly slowed down and merged in behind me.
>
As you pass and interchange, a merger is ahead of you at the same speed? And
you made a collision course for him instead of backing off? Remember, he is
ahead of you.

> A couple of things ran through my mind:
>
> 1. Was this driver a complete idiot that couldn't tell he had room to
> merge the whole time?

No, you made it look like you were going to collide with him.
>
> 2. If not #1, could he not use the roughly 20 seconds to decide to speed
> up just a little bit to open up a gap and come in ahead of me like I
> originally thought he was going to?
>
The driver has no obligation to speed up, only to enter at freeway speed,
which you were exeeding by 5mph. Right of way doesn't mean collision course,
you were supposed to have slowed down.

> Could some other posters in this group shed some light on that other
> driver's actions?

Done, see comments above.

On 12/25/2013 02:29 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So I was driving back from a shopping trip last night in the right
>> lane going about 70 mph (speed limit was 65 mph IIRC). As I pass an
>> interchange, a car comes up the acceleration ramp about 200 feet ahead
>> of me going roughly the same speed. This acceleration ramp is roughly
>> 2000 feet long according to the signage. I maintain a constant speed
>> in the right lane fully expecting this person to merge ahead of me,
>> but he remained in the acceleration lane. Just as the acceleration
>> lane was ending, he suddenly slowed down and merged in behind me.
>>
> As you pass and interchange, a merger is ahead of you at the same speed?

Yes.

> And you made a collision course for him instead of backing off?

It's not a collision course since he was going the same speed and was
ahead of me.

> Remember, he is ahead of you.

And?

>> A couple of things ran through my mind:
>>
>> 1. Was this driver a complete idiot that couldn't tell he had room to
>> merge the whole time?
>
> No, you made it look like you were going to collide with him.

All I did was maintain a constant speed. If he couldn't figure out how
to position his vehicle in order to merge nor figure out that he had
space to merge, that's his problem, not mine.

>> 2. If not #1, could he not use the roughly 20 seconds to decide to
>> speed up just a little bit to open up a gap and come in ahead of me
>> like I originally thought he was going to?
>>
> The driver has no obligation to speed up,

He has an obligation to find a gap and merge into it. He had ample
opportunity to either find one ahead of me or behind me. If he felt
that a 200 foot distance ahead of me wasn't sufficient to change lanes,
he could have simply speed up by a few miles per hour and opened up
another 100 feet or so of distance in order to make a lane change.

Alternatively, if he didn't want to speed up, he could have decreased
his speed by a few mph and when his car fell behind me, he could switch
lanes. The fact that he didn't figure that out until the lane ended
demonstrates is lack of timely decision making skills.

> only to enter at freeway
> speed, which you were exeeding by 5mph.

And?

> Right of way doesn't mean
> collision course, you were supposed to have slowed down.

No, he was either supposed to speed up or slow down to find a gap.
That's what merging means. I'm willing to bet the next thing you'll
tell me that traffic in a modern roundabout must slow down in order to
allow other vehicles to enter at speed. It appears that you don't have
the concept of right-of-way or what yielding actually means.

"Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/25/2013 02:29 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>> "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> So I was driving back from a shopping trip last night in the right
>>> lane going about 70 mph (speed limit was 65 mph IIRC). As I pass an
>>> interchange, a car comes up the acceleration ramp about 200 feet ahead
>>> of me going roughly the same speed. This acceleration ramp is roughly
>>> 2000 feet long according to the signage. I maintain a constant speed
>>> in the right lane fully expecting this person to merge ahead of me,
>>> but he remained in the acceleration lane. Just as the acceleration
>>> lane was ending, he suddenly slowed down and merged in behind me.
>>>
>> As you pass and interchange, a merger is ahead of you at the same speed?
>
> Yes.
>
So you see the yellow diamond sign indicating merging traffic.

>> And you made a collision course for him instead of backing off?
>
> It's not a collision course since he was going the same speed and was
> ahead of me.
>
Okay. But where does he merge? The earliest point is as soon as the solid
line becomes dashed. The latest is when the shoulder line forces a merger to
get in or be run off the road. Note: I am not even addressing haveing the
merger have to stop except for ramp signals. If it's a freeway/highway
accleration line, through traffic should quickly pass, change lanes to the
left, or brake.

It only makes sense, I think.

>> Remember, he is ahead of you.
>
> And?
>
There should have been no way the merger needed to slow down. You were too
close, you closed the gap.

>>> A couple of things ran through my mind:
>>>
>>> 1. Was this driver a complete idiot that couldn't tell he had room to
>>> merge the whole time?
>>
>> No, you made it look like you were going to collide with him.
>
> All I did was maintain a constant speed. If he couldn't figure out how to
> position his vehicle in order to merge nor figure out that he had space to
> merge, that's his problem, not mine.
>
Seems like many on this group are MFFYs and would rather have a merger/lane
changer risk hitting the car in front of them instead of braking.

>>> 2. If not #1, could he not use the roughly 20 seconds to decide to
>>> speed up just a little bit to open up a gap and come in ahead of me
>>> like I originally thought he was going to?
>>>
>> The driver has no obligation to speed up,
>
> He has an obligation to find a gap and merge into it. He had ample
> opportunity to either find one ahead of me or behind me. If he felt that
> a 200 foot distance ahead of me wasn't sufficient to change lanes, he
> could have simply speed up by a few miles per hour and opened up another
> 100 feet or so of distance in order to make a lane change.
>
And you could have assisted the gap by, you know, slowing down.

> Alternatively, if he didn't want to speed up, he could have decreased his
> speed by a few mph and when his car fell behind me, he could switch lanes.
> The fact that he didn't figure that out until the lane ended demonstrates
> is lack of timely decision making skills.
>
>> only to enter at freeway
>> speed, which you were exeeding by 5mph.
>
> And?
>
>> Right of way doesn't mean
>> collision course, you were supposed to have slowed down.
>
> No, he was either supposed to speed up or slow down to find a gap. That's
> what merging means. I'm willing to bet the next thing you'll tell me that
> traffic in a modern roundabout must slow down in order to allow other
> vehicles to enter at speed. It appears that you don't have the concept of
> right-of-way or what yielding actually means.

Right-of-way means through traffic, keeping speed, but not closing gaps or
cutting people off in a collision course. Merging traffic is supposed to
enter at the prevailing speed of traffic AT or below the speed limit, not
OVER the speed limit.

Most roundabouts in my area are speed limit 15mph with yield signs and yield
to traffic already in circle. This is not the same as a multilane traffic
circle.