1953 Dodge M37 3/4ton weapons carrier brake problems

I would like to ask advice about a problem that I’m having
with my truck. This is my 1953 3/4 ton Dodge M37 weapons carrier
that has been sitting idle for the past two years. I finally got
around to changing the plugs, charging the batteries and
actually got it started. With the rebuilt carbuerator I installed
two years ago and now the new plugs it runs pretty well. We
changed the oil and did a grease job, Everything on this truck
has a grease fitting, and we also topped off all the fluids. When
I got to the brakes, I found perhaps two inches of pedal travel
and a firm pedal. The master cylinder was full. I thought I was
all set. I moved the truck off the hill where it was parked and
as it was heading for the side of my house, I hit the brake. The
pedal remained high but there were no brakes. The transmission
band brake did work, luckily though.
I discussed this problem with some of my friends locally and the
general consensus was that since the pedal was so hard, the
pistons in the master cylinder must be rusted in place. I
loosened the output line from the master cylinder and stepped on
the pedal. The pedal went to the floor and fluid squirted out of
the line. This seemed to eliminate the master cylinder as the
culprit. The master cylinder is under the floor. The output line
is a six inch line which goes directly into a tee which is
mounted on the frame. The two outlets of the tee feed the rear
and front brake lines. So now I naturally suspected something
common to both the front and rear brakes. It logically seemed
like the tee. I decided to disconnect from this tee the line
feeding the front brakes to see what would happen. I sprayed both
sides of the tee first and hammered on it to set the penetrating
oil. To my surprise, the fitting for the front line came right
off. I again pressed the brake pedal. It went to the floor. Now
it was unclear if hammering on the line dislodged something and
could have freed up the brakes or opening the line did it. In any
event the master cylinder seemed to be ok and anyway, I broke the
line when I disconnected it from the tee. This line is 40 inches
long, runs from this tee, up the left frame side and connects via
a coupling to another steel line which then connects to a
flexible line that goes to the front axle. The coupling is in a
place where oil has been splattering for years and so this steel
line which goes to the flexible axle line is covered with oil and
grease and is in perfect condition. I was at this point pretty
confident that either the hammering had dislodged the clog, or
the old 40 inch line was plugged, so I replaced the line. I
filled the master cylinder and started pumping the brake. The
pedal was spongy as to be expected but did come up to about one
inch off the floor and hard. So I prepared to bleed the brakes. I
had my wife in the truck pumping the pedal, It was one inch from
the floor but hard. As she held it down I opened the right rear
bleeder as the procedure in the manual says and nothing
happened!.I next went to the left front and opened that bleeder
as well. Still nothing happened. She still had a pedal. I then
opened the flexible line to the left front wheel cylinder. She
still had a pedal!. I’ m trying to analyse this. I have a pedal
but no grakes. I open a bleeder screw anywhere in the system and
Istill have a pedal. Could both systems be clogged? I suppose
that i could come off the frame tee and replace the line to the
rear axle tee and see what happens I don’t want to just start
replacing things indiscriminately though but I really don’t know
how to troubleshoot this otherwise.. Have you ever seen anything
like this before ? Both front and rear seem to be blocked. Is
this possible? I’ve never seen it in all the years I’ve ben
fixing my own cars. Could brakes on a vehicle get so messed up
from just sitting for two years? And if it is two clogs where do you
think the most likely place for them might be? Thanks for any
advice. Lenny.

On Oct 6, 6:34*am, wrote:
> I would like to ask advice about a problem that I’m having
> with my truck. This is my 1953 3/4 ton Dodge M37 weapons carrier
> that has been sitting idle for the past two years. I finally got
> around to changing the plugs, charging the batteries *and
> actually got it started. With the rebuilt carbuerator I installed
> two years ago and now the new plugs it runs pretty well. We
> changed the oil and did a grease job, Everything on this truck
> has a grease fitting, and we also topped off all the fluids. When
> I got to the brakes, I found perhaps two inches of pedal travel
> and a firm pedal. The master cylinder was full. I thought I was
> all set. I moved the truck off the hill where it was parked and
> as it was heading for the side of my house, *I hit the brake. The
> pedal remained high but there were no brakes. The transmission
> band brake did work, luckily though.
> I discussed this problem with some of my friends locally and the
> general consensus was that since the pedal was so hard, the
> pistons in the master cylinder must be rusted in place. I
> loosened the output line from the master cylinder and stepped on
> the pedal. The pedal went to the floor and fluid squirted out of
> the line. This seemed to eliminate the master cylinder as the
> culprit. The master cylinder is under the floor. The output line
> is a six inch line which goes directly into a tee which is
> mounted on the frame. The two outlets of the tee feed the rear
> and front brake lines. So now I naturally *suspected something
> common to both the front and rear brakes. It logically seemed
> like the tee. I decided to disconnect from this tee the line
> feeding the front brakes to see what would happen. I sprayed both
> sides of the tee first and hammered on it to set the penetrating
> oil. To my surprise, the fitting for the front line came right
> off. I again pressed the brake pedal. It went to the floor. Now
> it was unclear if hammering on the line dislodged something and
> could have freed up the brakes or opening the line did it. In any
> event the master cylinder seemed to be ok and anyway, I broke the
> line when I disconnected it from the tee. This line is 40 inches
> long, runs from this tee, up the left frame side and connects via
> a coupling to another steel line which then connects to a
> flexible line that goes to the front axle. The coupling is in a
> place where oil has been splattering for years and so this steel
> line which goes to the flexible axle line is covered with oil and
> grease and is in perfect condition. I was at this point pretty
> confident that either the hammering had dislodged the clog, or
> the old 40 inch line was plugged, so I replaced the *line. I
> filled the master cylinder and started pumping the brake. The
> pedal was spongy as to be expected but did come up to about one
> inch off the floor and hard. So I prepared to bleed the brakes. I
> had my wife in the truck pumping the pedal, It was one inch from
> the floor but hard. *As she held it down I opened the right rear
> bleeder as the procedure in the manual says and nothing
> happened!.I next went to the left front and opened that bleeder
> as well. Still nothing happened. She still had a pedal. *I then
> opened the flexible line to the left front wheel cylinder. She
> still had a pedal!. I’ m trying to analyse this. I have a pedal
> but no grakes. I open a bleeder screw anywhere in the system and
> Istill have a pedal. Could both systems be clogged? I suppose
> that i could come off the frame tee and replace the line to the
> rear axle tee and see what happens I don’t want to just start
> replacing things indiscriminately though but I really don’t know
> how to troubleshoot this otherwise.. Have you ever seen anything
> like this before ? Both front and rear seem to be blocked. Is
> this possible? I’ve never seen it in all the years I’ve ben
> fixing my own cars. Could brakes on a vehicle get so messed up
> from just sitting for two years? And if it is two clogs where do you
> think the most likely place for them might be? Thanks for any
> advice. *Lenny.

I spent 35 years in the Canadian Army and replaced many wheel
cylinders on 3/4 tons. Its odd that all four would be seized but I
would pull the wheels and have a look.

Back in the 1970s I traded my 1967 Ford pickup truck for a big 1954 Ford
ex farm truck.I think the big truck was rated as a one ton truck, it had
an eight feet square bed behind the cab.It was originally an old farm
truck from Illinois.One morning I got in the big truck to go to work,
the brake pedal went all the way to the floor, one of the brake lines
had rusted out.

To be on the safe side concerning old vehicles it is always best to
install new or rebuilt brakes and new brake lines.
cuhulin

On Oct 6, 6:34*am, wrote:
> I would like to ask advice about a problem that I’m having
> with my truck. This is my 1953 3/4 ton Dodge M37 weapons carrier
> that has been sitting idle for the past two years. I finally got
> around to changing the plugs, charging the batteries *and
> actually got it started. With the rebuilt carbuerator I installed
> two years ago and now the new plugs it runs pretty well. We
> changed the oil and did a grease job, Everything on this truck
> has a grease fitting, and we also topped off all the fluids. When
> I got to the brakes, I found perhaps two inches of pedal travel
> and a firm pedal. The master cylinder was full. I thought I was
> all set. I moved the truck off the hill where it was parked and
> as it was heading for the side of my house, *I hit the brake. The
> pedal remained high but there were no brakes. The transmission
> band brake did work, luckily though.
> I discussed this problem with some of my friends locally and the
> general consensus was that since the pedal was so hard, the
> pistons in the master cylinder must be rusted in place. I
> loosened the output line from the master cylinder and stepped on
> the pedal. The pedal went to the floor and fluid squirted out of
> the line. This seemed to eliminate the master cylinder as the
> culprit. The master cylinder is under the floor. The output line
> is a six inch line which goes directly into a tee which is
> mounted on the frame. The two outlets of the tee feed the rear
> and front brake lines. So now I naturally *suspected something
> common to both the front and rear brakes. It logically seemed
> like the tee. I decided to disconnect from this tee the line
> feeding the front brakes to see what would happen. I sprayed both
> sides of the tee first and hammered on it to set the penetrating
> oil. To my surprise, the fitting for the front line came right
> off. I again pressed the brake pedal. It went to the floor. Now
> it was unclear if hammering on the line dislodged something and
> could have freed up the brakes or opening the line did it. In any
> event the master cylinder seemed to be ok and anyway, I broke the
> line when I disconnected it from the tee. This line is 40 inches
> long, runs from this tee, up the left frame side and connects via
> a coupling to another steel line which then connects to a
> flexible line that goes to the front axle. The coupling is in a
> place where oil has been splattering for years and so this steel
> line which goes to the flexible axle line is covered with oil and
> grease and is in perfect condition. I was at this point pretty
> confident that either the hammering had dislodged the clog, or
> the old 40 inch line was plugged, so I replaced the *line. I
> filled the master cylinder and started pumping the brake. The
> pedal was spongy as to be expected but did come up to about one
> inch off the floor and hard. So I prepared to bleed the brakes. I
> had my wife in the truck pumping the pedal, It was one inch from
> the floor but hard. *As she held it down I opened the right rear
> bleeder as the procedure in the manual says and nothing
> happened!.I next went to the left front and opened that bleeder
> as well. Still nothing happened. She still had a pedal. *I then
> opened the flexible line to the left front wheel cylinder. She
> still had a pedal!. I’ m trying to analyse this. I have a pedal
> but no grakes. I open a bleeder screw anywhere in the system and
> Istill have a pedal. Could both systems be clogged? I suppose
> that i could come off the frame tee and replace the line to the
> rear axle tee and see what happens I don’t want to just start
> replacing things indiscriminately though but I really don’t know
> how to troubleshoot this otherwise.. Have you ever seen anything
> like this before ? Both front and rear seem to be blocked. Is
> this possible? I’ve never seen it in all the years I’ve ben
> fixing my own cars. Could brakes on a vehicle get so messed up
> from just sitting for two years? And if it is two clogs where do you
> think the most likely place for them might be? Thanks for any
> advice. *Lenny.

does it have a proportioning valve or something similar where the
lines come together?

I remember in Can Tho in 1964 a small U.S.Army trailer being pulled
behind a truck to the Motor Pool shop.The brakes on the trailer were
locked up, the wheels on the trailer were not turning at all.
cuhulin

wrote:
> I would like to ask advice about a problem that I’m having
> with my truck. This is my 1953 3/4 ton Dodge M37 weapons carrier
> that has been sitting idle for the past two years.
SNIP
> Have you ever seen anything like this before ? Both front and rear seem
> to be blocked. Is this possible? I’ve never seen it in all the years
I’ve ben
> fixing my own cars. Could brakes on a vehicle get so messed up
> from just sitting for two years? And if it is two clogs where do you
> think the most likely place for them might be? Thanks for any
> advice. Lenny.

Well it sounds like there is a problem on both ends. The problem with
the bleeders could be that they are blocked by crud. Take one out
completely and see what you get. Water may have settled into the wheel
cylinders and rusted them solid as well. I would plan on either
replacing or rebuilding the wheel cylinders, then flush the system with
new fluid.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!


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wrote:
>

You are probably going to end up replacing all the brake lines in the end. After
you get pressure in them they will start to pop. Usually it will be the lowest
point in the brake line that is where water will collect on the inside and it
will rot from the inside out. The wheel cylinders for the same reason are likely
to need replacement because of pitting.


But to bleed the brakes I would start back at the beginning. It sounds like
you ran the master cylinder out of fluid when you broke that one section. So to
get the air out of MC loosen the fitting where the brake lines starts and bleed
the air out of that. Once the MC is working again the downstream bleeding should
start to work again.

My guess is that the brakes were working before. When you get around to
removing the wheels you may find the brake shoes soaked in axle lube and that is
why the brakes weren't stopping the truck.

-jim

> I would like to ask advice about a problem that I’m having
> with my truck. This is my 1953 3/4 ton Dodge M37 weapons carrier
> that has been sitting idle for the past two years. I finally got
> around to changing the plugs, charging the batteries and
> actually got it started. With the rebuilt carbuerator I installed
> two years ago and now the new plugs it runs pretty well. We
> changed the oil and did a grease job, Everything on this truck
> has a grease fitting, and we also topped off all the fluids. When
> I got to the brakes, I found perhaps two inches of pedal travel
> and a firm pedal. The master cylinder was full. I thought I was
> all set. I moved the truck off the hill where it was parked and
> as it was heading for the side of my house, I hit the brake. The
> pedal remained high but there were no brakes. The transmission
> band brake did work, luckily though.
> I discussed this problem with some of my friends locally and the
> general consensus was that since the pedal was so hard, the
> pistons in the master cylinder must be rusted in place. I
> loosened the output line from the master cylinder and stepped on
> the pedal. The pedal went to the floor and fluid squirted out of
> the line. This seemed to eliminate the master cylinder as the
> culprit. The master cylinder is under the floor. The output line
> is a six inch line which goes directly into a tee which is
> mounted on the frame. The two outlets of the tee feed the rear
> and front brake lines. So now I naturally suspected something
> common to both the front and rear brakes. It logically seemed
> like the tee. I decided to disconnect from this tee the line
> feeding the front brakes to see what would happen. I sprayed both
> sides of the tee first and hammered on it to set the penetrating
> oil. To my surprise, the fitting for the front line came right
> off. I again pressed the brake pedal. It went to the floor. Now
> it was unclear if hammering on the line dislodged something and
> could have freed up the brakes or opening the line did it. In any
> event the master cylinder seemed to be ok and anyway, I broke the
> line when I disconnected it from the tee. This line is 40 inches
> long, runs from this tee, up the left frame side and connects via
> a coupling to another steel line which then connects to a
> flexible line that goes to the front axle. The coupling is in a
> place where oil has been splattering for years and so this steel
> line which goes to the flexible axle line is covered with oil and
> grease and is in perfect condition. I was at this point pretty
> confident that either the hammering had dislodged the clog, or
> the old 40 inch line was plugged, so I replaced the line. I
> filled the master cylinder and started pumping the brake. The
> pedal was spongy as to be expected but did come up to about one
> inch off the floor and hard. So I prepared to bleed the brakes. I
> had my wife in the truck pumping the pedal, It was one inch from
> the floor but hard. As she held it down I opened the right rear
> bleeder as the procedure in the manual says and nothing
> happened!.I next went to the left front and opened that bleeder
> as well. Still nothing happened. She still had a pedal. I then
> opened the flexible line to the left front wheel cylinder. She
> still had a pedal!. I’ m trying to analyse this. I have a pedal
> but no grakes. I open a bleeder screw anywhere in the system and
> Istill have a pedal. Could both systems be clogged? I suppose
> that i could come off the frame tee and replace the line to the
> rear axle tee and see what happens I don’t want to just start
> replacing things indiscriminately though but I really don’t know
> how to troubleshoot this otherwise.. Have you ever seen anything
> like this before ? Both front and rear seem to be blocked. Is
> this possible? I’ve never seen it in all the years I’ve ben
> fixing my own cars. Could brakes on a vehicle get so messed up
> from just sitting for two years? And if it is two clogs where do you
> think the most likely place for them might be? Thanks for any
> advice. Lenny.


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On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 03:34:30 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>
The rubber lines can swell internally and cause problems like this. I
would start at the master cylinder and break the connections down the
line until you get to the point where no fluid flows through the
broken connection.

Steve B.

On Oct 6, 10:08*pm, Steve B. > wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 03:34:30 -0700 (PDT),
> wrote:
>
>
>
> The rubber lines can swell internally and cause problems like this. *I
> would start at the master cylinder and break the connections down the
> line until you get to the point where no fluid flows through the
> broken connection. *
>
> * * * * *Steve B.
Thanks guys
I'm getting back into it today. I'll let you know. Lenny

wrote:
>
> I would like to ask advice about a problem that I’m having
> with my truck. This is my 1953 3/4 ton Dodge M37 weapons carrier
> that has been sitting idle for the past two years. I finally got
> around to changing the plugs, charging the batteries and
> actually got it started. With the rebuilt carbuerator I installed
> two years ago and now the new plugs it runs pretty well. We
> changed the oil and did a grease job, Everything on this truck
> has a grease fitting, and we also topped off all the fluids. When
> I got to the brakes, I found perhaps two inches of pedal travel
> and a firm pedal. The master cylinder was full. I thought I was
> all set. I moved the truck off the hill where it was parked and
> as it was heading for the side of my house, I hit the brake. The
> pedal remained high but there were no brakes. The transmission
> band brake did work, luckily though.
> I discussed this problem with some of my friends locally and the
> general consensus was that since the pedal was so hard, the
> pistons in the master cylinder must be rusted in place. I
> loosened the output line from the master cylinder and stepped on
> the pedal. The pedal went to the floor and fluid squirted out of
> the line. This seemed to eliminate the master cylinder as the
> culprit. The master cylinder is under the floor. The output line
> is a six inch line which goes directly into a tee which is
> mounted on the frame. The two outlets of the tee feed the rear
> and front brake lines. So now I naturally suspected something
> common to both the front and rear brakes. It logically seemed
> like the tee. I decided to disconnect from this tee the line
> feeding the front brakes to see what would happen. I sprayed both
> sides of the tee first and hammered on it to set the penetrating
> oil. To my surprise, the fitting for the front line came right
> off. I again pressed the brake pedal. It went to the floor. Now
> it was unclear if hammering on the line dislodged something and
> could have freed up the brakes or opening the line did it. In any
> event the master cylinder seemed to be ok and anyway, I broke the
> line when I disconnected it from the tee. This line is 40 inches
> long, runs from this tee, up the left frame side and connects via
> a coupling to another steel line which then connects to a
> flexible line that goes to the front axle. The coupling is in a
> place where oil has been splattering for years and so this steel
> line which goes to the flexible axle line is covered with oil and
> grease and is in perfect condition. I was at this point pretty
> confident that either the hammering had dislodged the clog, or
> the old 40 inch line was plugged, so I replaced the line. I
> filled the master cylinder and started pumping the brake. The
> pedal was spongy as to be expected but did come up to about one
> inch off the floor and hard. So I prepared to bleed the brakes. I
> had my wife in the truck pumping the pedal, It was one inch from
> the floor but hard. As she held it down I opened the right rear
> bleeder as the procedure in the manual says and nothing
> happened!.I next went to the left front and opened that bleeder
> as well. Still nothing happened. She still had a pedal. I then
> opened the flexible line to the left front wheel cylinder. She
> still had a pedal!. I’ m trying to analyse this. I have a pedal
> but no grakes. I open a bleeder screw anywhere in the system and
> Istill have a pedal. Could both systems be clogged? I suppose
> that i could come off the frame tee and replace the line to the
> rear axle tee and see what happens I don’t want to just start
> replacing things indiscriminately though but I really don’t know
> how to troubleshoot this otherwise.. Have you ever seen anything
> like this before ? Both front and rear seem to be blocked. Is
> this possible? I’ve never seen it in all the years I’ve ben
> fixing my own cars. Could brakes on a vehicle get so messed up
> from just sitting for two years? And if it is two clogs where do you
> think the most likely place for them might be? Thanks for any
> advice. Lenny.

By any chance is there a steel ball in the bore underneath each bleeder
screw? Look down one of the bores with a strong light. I think I
remember a long time ago seeing a type of bleed screw that used a steel
ball, that could get frozen in the bore with age and rust. I don't
remember where or if it was even the brakes.

If you find this, you might try loosening all four screws at the same
time, just one or two turns. Then hit the brake pedal hard but quick,
and see if one of them pops. You might need to bleed some of that added
air through a downstream coupling, to get this to work.

--Dave