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Serious Bentley Manual Problems



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 21st 04, 10:01 PM
Kent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Serious Bentley Manual Problems

A while back, someone started a thread asking which was the preferred
Bentley Manual, electronic or print version. The consensus seemed to be that
the electronic version was not worth the premium price. Well, I should have
taken the group's advice.

I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service manual
late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with it for
a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support. I was
told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have purchased
it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley and
was "removed from circulation". I'm not even sure what that means. They
didn't come right out and say it, but the feeling I got was that they had
had serious compatibility problems with this product that they were quietly
trying to fix. Keep in mind that this was a brand-new, shrink wrapped CD
that I purchased from a reputable supplier that is highly-regarded by this
group.

Well, after a single unsuccessful fix attempt by software support, I was
told that the only possible way that the Version 1 CD "might" run on my
computer was by installing and maintaining a "dummy" version of an obsolete
Netscape browser. Am I the only one who finds this odd after paying $82 for
a brand new CD? I objected, and I was told that they would do a straight
exchange of my CD for a "Version 2" CD this is derived from microfiche and
doesn't include the wiring diagrams. I got the feeling that the Version 2 CD
was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
problem. Alternatively, I could do a straight exchange of my CD for the
print manual, which is significantly less expensive than the CD. Oh, and I
would have to return my CD to them at my cost, and include a letter
requesting the exchange.

I insisted that the more equitable exchange would be my Version 1 CD for the
Version 2 CD and the print manual, since the wiring diagrams were an
important part of why I decided to purchase the CD in the first place. This
is when software support stopped talking to me. I've since emailed my dealer
to see if he will offer a refund, or at least help me negotiate with Bentley
for an equitable exchange. I've also attempted to contact the president of
Bentley Publishing. No luck yet.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with this particular CD manual? Any
sage advice? Is the microfiche-derived Version 2 worth the money? Any
good/bad experiences with Bentley customer service?

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles


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  #2  
Old September 21st 04, 10:51 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My cd for my 2003 works fine on a Win98 box. I still prefer paper
after 27 years of paper manuals. No helpful comments about your cd
problem though. What OS, what service pack, what version of IE?

"Kent" > wrote:

>A while back, someone started a thread asking which was the preferred
>Bentley Manual, electronic or print version. The consensus seemed to be that
>the electronic version was not worth the premium price. Well, I should have
>taken the group's advice.
>
>I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service manual
>late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
>computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with it for
>a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support. I was
>told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have purchased
>it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley and
>was "removed from circulation". I'm not even sure what that means. They
>didn't come right out and say it, but the feeling I got was that they had
>had serious compatibility problems with this product that they were quietly
>trying to fix. Keep in mind that this was a brand-new, shrink wrapped CD
>that I purchased from a reputable supplier that is highly-regarded by this
>group.
>
>Well, after a single unsuccessful fix attempt by software support, I was
>told that the only possible way that the Version 1 CD "might" run on my
>computer was by installing and maintaining a "dummy" version of an obsolete
>Netscape browser. Am I the only one who finds this odd after paying $82 for
>a brand new CD? I objected, and I was told that they would do a straight
>exchange of my CD for a "Version 2" CD this is derived from microfiche and
>doesn't include the wiring diagrams. I got the feeling that the Version 2 CD
>was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
>problem. Alternatively, I could do a straight exchange of my CD for the
>print manual, which is significantly less expensive than the CD. Oh, and I
>would have to return my CD to them at my cost, and include a letter
>requesting the exchange.
>
>I insisted that the more equitable exchange would be my Version 1 CD for the
>Version 2 CD and the print manual, since the wiring diagrams were an
>important part of why I decided to purchase the CD in the first place. This
>is when software support stopped talking to me. I've since emailed my dealer
>to see if he will offer a refund, or at least help me negotiate with Bentley
>for an equitable exchange. I've also attempted to contact the president of
>Bentley Publishing. No luck yet.
>
>Has anyone else had a similar experience with this particular CD manual? Any
>sage advice? Is the microfiche-derived Version 2 worth the money? Any
>good/bad experiences with Bentley customer service?



Jim B.
  #3  
Old September 21st 04, 10:52 PM
Joseph Meehan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kent wrote:
...
>
> I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service manual
> late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
> computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with it
> for
> a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support.


" I was
> told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have purchased
> it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley and
> was "removed from circulation".


....

> I got the feeling that the Version 2 CD
> was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
> problem.


It sounds like someone sold you an old version that will not run on
current operating systems and/or current versions of IE. That is not the
fault of Bentley. Bentley can't control Microsoft or predict what they may
do.

Your grip should be with whoever you bought the disk from because they
sold you an out of date product.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math



  #4  
Old September 22nd 04, 12:43 AM
Kent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I tried both Windows 98 and 2000 systems, both running the latest version of
Internet Explorer.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

> wrote in message
...
> My cd for my 2003 works fine on a Win98 box. I still prefer paper
> after 27 years of paper manuals. No helpful comments about your cd
> problem though. What OS, what service pack, what version of IE?
>
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
> >A while back, someone started a thread asking which was the preferred
> >Bentley Manual, electronic or print version. The consensus seemed to be

that
> >the electronic version was not worth the premium price. Well, I should

have
> >taken the group's advice.
> >
> >I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service

manual
> >late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
> >computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with it

for
> >a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support. I

was
> >told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have

purchased
> >it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley

and
> >was "removed from circulation". I'm not even sure what that means. They
> >didn't come right out and say it, but the feeling I got was that they had
> >had serious compatibility problems with this product that they were

quietly
> >trying to fix. Keep in mind that this was a brand-new, shrink wrapped CD
> >that I purchased from a reputable supplier that is highly-regarded by

this
> >group.
> >
> >Well, after a single unsuccessful fix attempt by software support, I was
> >told that the only possible way that the Version 1 CD "might" run on my
> >computer was by installing and maintaining a "dummy" version of an

obsolete
> >Netscape browser. Am I the only one who finds this odd after paying $82

for
> >a brand new CD? I objected, and I was told that they would do a straight
> >exchange of my CD for a "Version 2" CD this is derived from microfiche

and
> >doesn't include the wiring diagrams. I got the feeling that the Version 2

CD
> >was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
> >problem. Alternatively, I could do a straight exchange of my CD for the
> >print manual, which is significantly less expensive than the CD. Oh, and

I
> >would have to return my CD to them at my cost, and include a letter
> >requesting the exchange.
> >
> >I insisted that the more equitable exchange would be my Version 1 CD for

the
> >Version 2 CD and the print manual, since the wiring diagrams were an
> >important part of why I decided to purchase the CD in the first place.

This
> >is when software support stopped talking to me. I've since emailed my

dealer
> >to see if he will offer a refund, or at least help me negotiate with

Bentley
> >for an equitable exchange. I've also attempted to contact the president

of
> >Bentley Publishing. No luck yet.
> >
> >Has anyone else had a similar experience with this particular CD manual?

Any
> >sage advice? Is the microfiche-derived Version 2 worth the money? Any
> >good/bad experiences with Bentley customer service?

>
>
> Jim B.



  #5  
Old September 22nd 04, 12:46 AM
Joseph Meehan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kent wrote:
> I tried both Windows 98 and 2000 systems, both running the latest version
> of
> Internet Explorer.


I suspect you need an OLD version of IE not a new one.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math



  #6  
Old September 22nd 04, 01:00 AM
Kent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I disagree. The CD case clearly says that the CD will run on Windows
95/98/NT and Netscape Navigator or Internet Explorer 4 or higher. Bentley
may consider this an obsolete "out of circulation" version, but they are
still out there in the supply chain being sold to unwitting consumers (like
me) as new. There is nothing on the packaging to indicate that the CD is
out-of-date. In fact, I had to give Bentley software support a number off
the CD itself before they could tell me that I had the obsolete version. Why
should my distributor be held responsible when the case represents that it
will run on systems that Bentley now concedes that it won't? Bentley is
ultimately responsible for providing updates, equitable exchanges, or full
refunds if their product does not function as advertised. This is especially
true when you consider the outrageous pricing for the CD version. Instead
they are beating around the bush, offering non-equitable exchanges, and
hoping it will all go away. I won't go away.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
> ..
> >
> > I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service

manual
> > late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
> > computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with it
> > for
> > a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support.

>
> " I was
> > told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have

purchased
> > it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley

and
> > was "removed from circulation".

>
> ...
>
> > I got the feeling that the Version 2 CD
> > was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
> > problem.

>
> It sounds like someone sold you an old version that will not run on
> current operating systems and/or current versions of IE. That is not the
> fault of Bentley. Bentley can't control Microsoft or predict what they may
> do.
>
> Your grip should be with whoever you bought the disk from because they
> sold you an out of date product.
>
>
> --
> Joseph E. Meehan
>
> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>
>
>



  #7  
Old September 22nd 04, 01:03 AM
Kent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So I can NEVER update my browser, or my $82 CD service manual will be
rendered useless. That's some fine software support.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
> > I tried both Windows 98 and 2000 systems, both running the latest

version
> > of
> > Internet Explorer.

>
> I suspect you need an OLD version of IE not a new one.
>
>
> --
> Joseph E. Meehan
>
> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>
>
>



  #8  
Old September 22nd 04, 01:06 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

When a product does not state that it runs on Windows 2000 which has
been out maybe 5 years or XP which has been out over 2 years then that
would qualify as old, untested or not updated product. My 2003 cd has
2k and XP listed. No mention of Win95.

"Kent" > wrote:

>I disagree. The CD case clearly says that the CD will run on Windows
>95/98/NT and Netscape Navigator or Internet Explorer 4 or higher. Bentley
>may consider this an obsolete "out of circulation" version, but they are
>still out there in the supply chain being sold to unwitting consumers (like
>me) as new. There is nothing on the packaging to indicate that the CD is
>out-of-date. In fact, I had to give Bentley software support a number off
>the CD itself before they could tell me that I had the obsolete version. Why
>should my distributor be held responsible when the case represents that it
>will run on systems that Bentley now concedes that it won't? Bentley is
>ultimately responsible for providing updates, equitable exchanges, or full
>refunds if their product does not function as advertised. This is especially
>true when you consider the outrageous pricing for the CD version. Instead
>they are beating around the bush, offering non-equitable exchanges, and
>hoping it will all go away. I won't go away.
>
>--
>Kent
>1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles
>
>"Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Kent wrote:
>> ..
>> >
>> > I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service

>manual
>> > late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
>> > computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with it
>> > for
>> > a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support.

>>
>> " I was
>> > told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have

>purchased
>> > it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley

>and
>> > was "removed from circulation".

>>
>> ...
>>
>> > I got the feeling that the Version 2 CD
>> > was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
>> > problem.

>>
>> It sounds like someone sold you an old version that will not run on
>> current operating systems and/or current versions of IE. That is not the
>> fault of Bentley. Bentley can't control Microsoft or predict what they may
>> do.
>>
>> Your grip should be with whoever you bought the disk from because they
>> sold you an out of date product.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joseph E. Meehan
>>
>> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>>
>>
>>



Jim B.
  #9  
Old September 22nd 04, 01:35 AM
Tony Bad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
...
> When a product does not state that it runs on Windows 2000 which has
> been out maybe 5 years or XP which has been out over 2 years then that
> would qualify as old, untested or not updated product. My 2003 cd has
> 2k and XP listed. No mention of Win95.
>


The one for my Eurovan says copyright 2002 and lists Win 98 thru XP.

I had some issues and contacted bentley, and they had me download the latest
version of something...I believe it was called ebahn, which is the software to
read their data disc. The version of the reader I got was old. I downloaded the
newer version, which improved some things, like ability to search, but I'd never
buy another CD. I think it is a poorly executed product...well below Bentley's
usual high standard for print versions.

Check here...

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/eba...l=&ticket=none

(hope that link didn't break!)

--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)


  #10  
Old September 22nd 04, 03:24 AM
dave AKA vwdoc1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> So I can NEVER update my browser, or my $82 CD service manual will be
> rendered useless. That's some fine software support.
>
> --
> Kent
> 1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles


I have maybe three of the early versions of different Bentley Repair Manuals
on CD, (Audi 80, Passat 95-97 and Passat 90-94)
They all work for me on my old PII-350 running W98SE computer with the newer
Netscape, IE and Avant browsers.
It seems like the CD sets up some server on your computer and allows you to
see info, or search info on the CD. Sometimes I find it is tricky and may
not work perfectly all of the time. I am not sure if my Anti-Virus or
Firewall have anything to do with that or not. I can always get the info
that I need though..........eventually. lol

Paper manuals are easier to read esp. for the wiring diagrams!!! Of course
you can print out the needed pages, but that might be only 20 or so pages if
you are lucky! lol
And for the 85-92 A2s, a paper manual off of Ebay or maybe Amazon ($47.36)
should have been inexpensive too! :-)

Support will only be for the newest software, but I am scared of the newer
ones since I have heard horror stories about these one time & one computer
install only type of software! Reminds me of Windows XP or my Anti-Virus
software!!! 8^o

Good luck and let us know what happens!!
later,
dave


 




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