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Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 18th 18, 06:47 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
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Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 16:59, Robin wrote:
> On 18/02/2018 16:49, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>> Â* wrote:
>>
>>> Lacking an actual torque wrench, be sure to use equal pressure on all
>>> the nuts.Â* I use a two step process.Â* First, tighten them to just snug
>>> using a cross pattern.Â* Then go back and tighten each one as evenly as
>>> you can feel to tight, but don't kill them.Â* Hard to decribe but you
>>> don't want to stand on the wrench to get them very tight.

>>
>> The only way I know to "test" (but not "calibrate") a torque wrench is to
>> have a double-headed bolt contraption that is long enough for two sockets
>> to fit face to face.
>>
>> Then I would put a torque wrench on each end, and lock one in a vise and
>> twist the other where they should both show the same torque.
>>
>> That only "tests" them.
>> I don't know how to calibrate them because both could be wrong.
>> And you have to "adjust" them if they are.
>>
>> Does anyone know how to calibrate a torque wrench at home?
>>

>
> Clamp head with handle horizontal; hang bucket of water measured
> distance from head; add water until clicks; weight bucket; do sum.
>


or use a luggage weight scale , attach at (for example ) one foot from
the drive head of the torque wrench and pull till the wrench clicks,
read scales and see if it matches what the torque wrench is set to.
Alternately give the torque wrench to a test station for re-calibration.
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  #22  
Old February 18th 18, 06:49 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
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Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:11, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
>>>
>>> Yes, they are there from the factory.

>>
>> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
>> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.

>
> I also wonder why the cuts are there, all at the same depth on the nut.
>
> A friend I just spoke to says his car has them too, so, they're pretty
> common.
>
> If they're made at the factory, why?
>


possibly because they locate in the tool that puts on all the wheel nuts
at the same time.
  #23  
Old February 18th 18, 06:52 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
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Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:10, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> He could be referencing the special torque bars that are used by many
>> tire shops. They look like an extension bar, but they come in
>> different thicknesses and are color coded to indicate the torque which
>> can be applied using each one.

>
> I just mean the right-angle simple bar extension that you have to have in
> order to keep the torque wrench away from the sidewall of the tire.
>
> You have to have an extension no matter what, because the torque wrench
> hits the tire sidewall because the lug nuts are on the hub but the tire
> sidewall sticks out a few inches.
>
> Even a deep socket isn't long enough, so the least I can add by way of
> extension is a deep socket plus a 2 or 3 inch extension bar (whatever I
> have that is shortest).
>
> I was asking if I used a 3 inch extension bar off the deep socket, or, if I
> used a 6 inch extension bar, would it matter for the torque?
>
> I think not - but I've heard people say use the shortest extension bar you
> can get your hands on. I don't understand why. It should be the same torque
> if I used a 16-inch extension bar, right?
>


no because some force will just be twisting the bar, Imagine a bar a
mile long, you twist one end with a known force, the other end would not
move.
  #24  
Old February 18th 18, 06:54 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Mrcheerful
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Posts: 14
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 00:48, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools on this vehicle
> whose tires I rotated today and which I plan on rotating every 4K miles (6K
> km).
>
> First question is what is the practical difference between these three 21mm
> (13/16ths) "sockets" for the lug bolts on the car I was working on today?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/socket_ends.jpg
> 1. The standard lug wrench (green) has 6 points, each at a sharp angle.
> 2. The impact socket (black) has 6 points, each at a semicircular angle.
> 3. The standard socket (chrome) has 12 points, each at a sharp angle.
>
> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
> I always use deep sockets, which fit over the whole nut, so I know I didn't
> make these marks - but what did make the marks? Are they factory original?
> If so, why?
>
> Third question is related to this combination pictu
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/torquewrench.jpg
> Where this question is a combination question of:
> a. Why is the green 21mm "lug wrench" so very short compared to all others?
> b. What's the practical difference, if any, with respect to torquing lug
> bolts to 85 foot pounds (115 N-m), between the two types of torque wrenches
> shown?
> c. Does anyone even use that bottom-most "auger style" ratchet bar for fast
> removal anymore? (I don't have power bolt-removal tools so that's why I use
> it.)
> And, the most important question, for torquing lug nuts, is
> d. Does the torque change depending on the length of the socket extension
> bar?
>
> Fourth question is more of an observation than a question, where I combed
> the tires for rocks and nails, as I always do when I rotate the tires every
> 4K miles, when I saw this tiny little steel dot embedded in the rubber in
> each of the front tires.
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter1.jpg
>
> That tiny dot turned out to be this funny-shaped steel sliver, pointy side
> was pointing into the tire in both front tires.
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter2.jpg
>
> The question is whether these embedded rocks and splinters, of which I
> always find between 50 and 100 in each tire (mostly tiny pebbles and bits
> of glass stuck in the tiny sipes of the tire tread) would eventually fall
> out as the rubber wears (negating the need to periodically pick them out at
> each tire rotation)?
> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/splinter3.jpg
>
> In summary, I ask these basic questions simply to learn more about how to
> better rotate tires every 4K miles (6.5K km).
>


better to leave the tyres alone, rotating the position of tyres went out
of fashion about 60 years ago.
  #25  
Old February 18th 18, 06:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
alan_m
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Posts: 32
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:18, ultred ragnusen wrote:

> Since you can't use a torque wrench and a lug wrench at the same time, I
> was wondering if they made it just short enough so that a normal person
> could not apply "too much" torque to the lug bolts?


99.99% of car owners don't own a torque wrench. The short green wrench
is the cheapest that can be made (and to fit in with jacking tool kit)
to get someone out of trouble when they have to change of tyre in an
emergency. In many cases when the tyre has be installed from factory or
by a the retailer using (air) powered tools most people would find it
very difficult to undo the wheel nuts with that wrench. Much better to
discard it and get something with a longer handle

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Aut...+Wrench/p93520

or

https://tinyurl.com/yag6ddqr


>
> Basically, I was asking if it's short because that way, a normal human can
> only apply about 85 foot pounds which is all they can do with that short
> bar and their hands?
>


But don't most people jump on it using their whole body weight ?



--
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  #26  
Old February 18th 18, 06:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
AMuzi
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Posts: 488
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 2/18/2018 11:04 AM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>> Does anyone know how to calibrate a torque wrench at home?
>>>

>>
>> Clamp head with handle horizontal; hang bucket of water measured
>> distance from head; add water until clicks; weight bucket; do sum.

>
> On a diagram, I see how hanging a known weight a known distance from the
> head will test the torque to see if it's correct ... but ...
>
> And I can visualize how to mechanically clamp a bolt in a vise to hang the
> torque wrench on - but then - how do you calibrate the two types?
>


or just clamp the wrench's drive in the vise. Measure from
axis, add weight. This is simple arithmetic not rocket science.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old February 18th 18, 08:19 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
dsi1[_11_]
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Posts: 331
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On Sunday, February 18, 2018 at 2:37:31 AM UTC-10, Fredxx wrote:
>
> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.


My guess is that the lug nutz are marked that way to indicate the grade of the fastener in this critical application.
  #28  
Old February 18th 18, 08:32 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Fredxx
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Posts: 8
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:49, MrCheerful wrote:
> On 18/02/2018 17:11, ultred ragnusen wrote:
>> Â* wrote:
>>
>>>>> Second question, are these "cut marks" on a lug nut normal?
>>>>> http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/dented_nuts.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they are there from the factory.
>>>
>>> Why? Not all nuts have this mark, and in the UK nuts with this mark are
>>> generally used for hoses that contain inflammable gases.

>>
>> I also wonder why the cuts are there, all at the same depth on the nut.
>>
>> A friend I just spoke to says his car has them too, so, they're pretty
>> common.
>>
>> If they're made at the factory, why?
>>

>
> possibly because they locate in the tool that puts on all the wheel nuts
> at the same time.


OK - like a circlip type clip to retain the nut in the tool?

That would make sense.

  #29  
Old February 18th 18, 08:46 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,uk.rec.cars.maintenance
alan_m
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Posts: 32
Default Can you teach me more about lug bolts & related tire tools?

On 18/02/2018 17:54, MrCheerful wrote:

> better to leave the tyres alone, rotating the position of tyres went out
> of fashion about 60 years ago.


Yes, in the educated world this type of nonsense has mainly disappeared
but I suspect the original poster lives in the USA where frequent tyre
rotation and 6K oil changes are promoted in order to keep the car
service industry alive - or else they have poorer quality tyres and oil.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
 




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