Mid section of the exhaust is toast, cat converter a suspect? or justthe age...

the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
an aftermarket can available.

So before I bring $450 US to the local audi dealer
I should ask this: is there a catalytic converter
on the way out or anything else?

I'd rather understand why the rear exhaust cans are in good conditions
while the middle has rotted off the support bracket on a not
quite 11 years old car.

Would like some insurance to avoid ordering a $450 canister twice.

The part has a single input from the (cat? engine ports?)
and splits it into two exhaust cans sitting in the rear of the car.

tnx

> wrote:
>the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
>is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
>an aftermarket can available.

How many miles are on it?

>So before I bring $450 US to the local audi dealer
>I should ask this: is there a catalytic converter
>on the way out or anything else?

How many miles are on it? If you have more than 100k or so, your converter
is probably not doing very much anymore.

>I'd rather understand why the rear exhaust cans are in good conditions
>while the middle has rotted off the support bracket on a not
>quite 11 years old car.

Probably different material. I know on BMWs the original pipes are mostly
ferritic stainless steels, but they use a whole bunch of different variety
steels because the cans are formed in different ways.

>Would like some insurance to avoid ordering a $450 canister twice.

If you drive it for another 11 years, I guarantee you'll need to replace it
again. I think I am on the third full exhaust system on my E28 (although
some of that is because I put a crappy aftermarket one on in '95 or so).
Exhaust systems are wear items, pretty much.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 08/12/2013 02:35 AM, wrote:
> the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
> is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
> an aftermarket can available.
>
> So before I bring $450 US to the local audi dealer
> I should ask this: is there a catalytic converter
> on the way out or anything else?
>
> I'd rather understand why the rear exhaust cans are in good conditions
> while the middle has rotted off the support bracket on a not
> quite 11 years old car.
>
> Would like some insurance to avoid ordering a $450 canister twice.
>
> The part has a single input from the (cat? engine ports?)
> and splits it into two exhaust cans sitting in the rear of the car.
>
> tnx
>

it rusted out because of the materials it's made from and your local
road salt conditions. both of which have been anticipated by audi, so
that allows you to answer one of your questions - yes it will rot out
again if you replace with oem - and in the same kind of time scale.

the next question is, do you want to keep this car for another 10 years?
unlikely imo. in which case, shop around online for a better price,
and amortize it at <$45 per year and recover the asset value from the
next guy.

you can of course have a part made by a local muffler shop. but you'll
likely still have to pay >$100. and it won't last anywhere near as
long. and it'll decrease your resale value.

pretty much a wash if you ask me. the clincher imo is whether you want
the rest of the exhaust system to be maintainable, or whether you want
the muffler shop to screw stuff up by making a cheap replacement?
because that's what you're really facing with alternatives.


--
fact check required

On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:27:54 PM UTC+3, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > wrote:
>
> >the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
>
> >is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
>
> >an aftermarket can available.
>
>
>
> How many miles are on it?
>

133k miles
got it at 118k two years ago and the carfax was clean with 1 owner
for whom going for maintenance was a religious routine

>
>
> >So before I bring $450 US to the local audi dealer
>
> >I should ask this: is there a catalytic converter
>
> >on the way out or anything else?
>
>
>
> How many miles are on it? If you have more than 100k or so, your converter
>
> is probably not doing very much anymore.
>

ok, but the cat being gone does not affect the temperatures
I'm seeing in the exhaust midsection or does it?

>
>
> >I'd rather understand why the rear exhaust cans are in good conditions
>
> >while the middle has rotted off the support bracket on a not
>
> >quite 11 years old car.
>
>
>
> Probably different material. I know on BMWs the original pipes are mostly
>
> ferritic stainless steels, but they use a whole bunch of different variety
>
> steels because the cans are formed in different ways.
>
>
>
> >Would like some insurance to avoid ordering a $450 canister twice.
>
>
>
> If you drive it for another 11 years, I guarantee you'll need to replace it
>
> again. I think I am on the third full exhaust system on my E28 (although
>
> some of that is because I put a crappy aftermarket one on in '95 or so).
>
> Exhaust systems are wear items, pretty much.
>

Well, I guess I should not have saved on the clamp for the front of the midsection then. Dealer wants $40. I've got an aftermaket one for about $13.
That 4" pipe is stainless but the clamps do not instill any confidence in me.
I wonder why the heck the clamp can be had while the resonator is unobtanium.
Maybe the clamp is a B5 carryover (aftermarket B5 exhausts do exist around here)

[jb wrote]
> the next question is, do you want to keep this car for another 10 years?

I would, xept the 4" of ground clearance makes me wonder if I
have enough patience to drive it in the current road conditions.

I do not have a whole lot of alternatives given that $11-12k I can get for
it would get me a mono wheel driver in a decent condition. ANd a monowheeldriver
is the last thing I want to lug around in the local winter conditions.

Thanks Scott and Jim

In article >,
> wrote:
>On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:27:54 PM UTC+3, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
>>
>> >is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
>>
>> >an aftermarket can available.
>>
>> How many miles are on it?
>
>133k miles
>got it at 118k two years ago and the carfax was clean with 1 owner
>for whom going for maintenance was a religious routine

Sounds about reasonable if it's got some short drives on it. With regular
highway driving the exhaust system will tend to last longer because it will
spend more time hot and bake all that moisture out.

>ok, but the cat being gone does not affect the temperatures
>I'm seeing in the exhaust midsection or does it?

When the cat is gone, the exhaust system temperatures will be substantially
lower than normal, and that might cause the system to rust a bit faster.
Or maybe not. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it.

>Well, I guess I should not have saved on the clamp for the front of the midsection then. Dealer wants $40. I've got an aftermaket one for about $13.
>That 4" pipe is stainless but the clamps do not instill any confidence in me.
>I wonder why the heck the clamp can be had while the resonator is unobtanium.
>Maybe the clamp is a B5 carryover (aftermarket B5 exhausts do exist around here)

It's probably used on a whole bunch of models, actually. But be aware that
"stainless" isn't "stainless." Stainless is three unrelated families of
different materials with thousands of different types that have different
properties. Your mufflers and resonator were both "stainless" but clearly
one material lasted a long longer than the other.

>> the next question is, do you want to keep this car for another 10 years?
>
>I would, xept the 4" of ground clearance makes me wonder if I
>have enough patience to drive it in the current road conditions.

It's a fun car to drive. I'd keep it and get a winter beater.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 08/13/2013 06:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >,
> > wrote:
>> On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:27:54 PM UTC+3, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
>>>
>>>> is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
>>>
>>>> an aftermarket can available.
>>>
>>> How many miles are on it?
>>
>> 133k miles
>> got it at 118k two years ago and the carfax was clean with 1 owner
>> for whom going for maintenance was a religious routine
>
> Sounds about reasonable if it's got some short drives on it. With regular
> highway driving the exhaust system will tend to last longer because it will
> spend more time hot and bake all that moisture out.
>
>> ok, but the cat being gone does not affect the temperatures
>> I'm seeing in the exhaust midsection or does it?
>
> When the cat is gone, the exhaust system temperatures will be substantially
> lower than normal, and that might cause the system to rust a bit faster.
> Or maybe not. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it.
>
>> Well, I guess I should not have saved on the clamp for the front of the midsection then. Dealer wants $40. I've got an aftermaket one for about $13.
>> That 4" pipe is stainless but the clamps do not instill any confidence in me.
>> I wonder why the heck the clamp can be had while the resonator is unobtanium.
>> Maybe the clamp is a B5 carryover (aftermarket B5 exhausts do exist around here)
>
> It's probably used on a whole bunch of models, actually. But be aware that
> "stainless" isn't "stainless." Stainless is three unrelated families of
> different materials with thousands of different types that have different
> properties. Your mufflers and resonator were both "stainless" but clearly
> one material lasted a long longer than the other.

a popular exhaust "stainless" is in fact an aluminized mild steel. it's
an effective long lasting solution against external corrosion but has
two weaknesses:

1. it's usually a seamed pipe, and the seam is not aluminized and thus
rusts. same for welds.

2. the internals are not protected at all and if, as you say, the
interior doesn't get regularly hot, acidic water condensates can corrode
through relatively fast.

but the main benefit, apart from price, is that it's not subject to
pitting like some of the ferritic stainless "exhaust" grades.


>
>>> the next question is, do you want to keep this car for another 10 years?
>>
>> I would, xept the 4" of ground clearance makes me wonder if I
>> have enough patience to drive it in the current road conditions.
>
> It's a fun car to drive. I'd keep it and get a winter beater.

i'd get an older toyota 4x4 as a winter beater. lacking creature
comforts, and subject to their own myriad issues, but seemingly
impervious to depreciation, huge hardcore following/knowledge base, and
great ground clearance, even stock.


--
fact check required

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:27:18 AM UTC-5, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/13/2013 06:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > In article >,
>
> > > wrote:
>
> >> On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:27:54 PM UTC+3, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> >>> > wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> an aftermarket can available.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> How many miles are on it?
>
> >>
>
> >> 133k miles
>
> >> got it at 118k two years ago and the carfax was clean with 1 owner
>
> >> for whom going for maintenance was a religious routine
>
> >
>
> > Sounds about reasonable if it's got some short drives on it. With regular
>
> > highway driving the exhaust system will tend to last longer because it will
>
> > spend more time hot and bake all that moisture out.
>
> >
>
> >> ok, but the cat being gone does not affect the temperatures
>
> >> I'm seeing in the exhaust midsection or does it?
>
> >
>
> > When the cat is gone, the exhaust system temperatures will be substantially
>
> > lower than normal, and that might cause the system to rust a bit faster.
>
> > Or maybe not. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it.
>
> >
>
> >> Well, I guess I should not have saved on the clamp for the front of the midsection then. Dealer wants $40. I've got an aftermaket one for about $13.
>
> >> That 4" pipe is stainless but the clamps do not instill any confidence in me.
>
> >> I wonder why the heck the clamp can be had while the resonator is unobtanium.
>
> >> Maybe the clamp is a B5 carryover (aftermarket B5 exhausts do exist around here)
>
> >
>
> > It's probably used on a whole bunch of models, actually. But be aware that
>
> > "stainless" isn't "stainless." Stainless is three unrelated families of
>
> > different materials with thousands of different types that have different
>
> > properties. Your mufflers and resonator were both "stainless" but clearly
>
> > one material lasted a long longer than the other.
>
>
>
> a popular exhaust "stainless" is in fact an aluminized mild steel. it's
>
> an effective long lasting solution against external corrosion but has
>
> two weaknesses:
>
>
>
> 1. it's usually a seamed pipe, and the seam is not aluminized and thus
>
> rusts. same for welds.
>
>
>
> 2. the internals are not protected at all and if, as you say, the
>
> interior doesn't get regularly hot, acidic water condensates can corrode
>
> through relatively fast.
>
>
>
> but the main benefit, apart from price, is that it's not subject to
>
> pitting like some of the ferritic stainless "exhaust" grades.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> >>> the next question is, do you want to keep this car for another 10 years?
>
> >>
>
> >> I would, xept the 4" of ground clearance makes me wonder if I
>
> >> have enough patience to drive it in the current road conditions.
>
> >
>
> > It's a fun car to drive. I'd keep it and get a winter beater.
>
>
>
> i'd get an older toyota 4x4 as a winter beater. lacking creature
>
> comforts, and subject to their own myriad issues, but seemingly
>
> impervious to depreciation, huge hardcore following/knowledge base, and
>
> great ground clearance, even stock.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Last year in July, I went to Delta Muffler and I got a new muffler, resonator and tail pipe on my 1983 Dodge van, $155.15. The old original stuff was completely rusted out. My old van sounded better with the old stuff on it.

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 02:35:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>the middle bottle ("resonator") in my A4 B6
>is toast beyond repair and there does not seem to be
>an aftermarket can available.

Can you just go to some muffler shop and have them weld in some
generic muffler? What's so special about the factory one? Do you
even need it, can it be replaced with a straight piece of pipe?


>
>So before I bring $450 US to the local audi dealer
>I should ask this: is there a catalytic converter
>on the way out or anything else?
>
>I'd rather understand why the rear exhaust cans are in good conditions
>while the middle has rotted off the support bracket on a not
>quite 11 years old car.
>
>Would like some insurance to avoid ordering a $450 canister twice.
>
>The part has a single input from the (cat? engine ports?)
>and splits it into two exhaust cans sitting in the rear of the car.
>
>tnx

On 8/13/2013 9:27 AM, jim beam wrote:
>
> i'd get an older toyota 4x4 as a winter beater. lacking creature
> comforts, and subject to their own myriad issues, but seemingly
> impervious to depreciation, huge hardcore following/knowledge base, and
> great ground clearance, even stock.
>
The Nissan Frontier has better steering feel (amazingly good for a 4WD
truck), ride and handling, and is equally indestructible. And 10 inches
of ground clearance under the differentials will get you through most
snow drifts. But they suck down gasoline - my 2002 XE "King Cab" with
the V-6 and AT (could not find a manual transmission in the local used
market here in BFE) drops from about 18 mpg in summer/2WD to 13 mpg in
winter/4WD.

--
T0m $herm@n

On 8/13/2013 11:00 AM, JR wrote:
> Last year in July, I went to Delta Muffler and I got a new muffler, resonator and tail pipe on my 1983 Dodge van, $155.15. The old original stuff was completely rusted out. My old van sounded better with the old stuff on it.

I used to drive an early 1970's Chevy van with a 350 V-8 and missing
exhaust from the headers on back. At night, full throttle to get a 3-2
downshift, then lifting rapidly off would produce a huge bang and flash,
which is entertaining when you are high school age.

--
T0m $herm@n