What exactly does cold pressure mean?

On Nov 30, 2:50*pm, jim beam > wrote:
> On 11/30/2010 11:37 AM, Tom Adams wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 9:55 am, "John > *wrote:
> >> On Nov 29, 3:26 pm, Tom > *wrote:
>
> >>> I help maintain a Ford E350 used for a vanpool.
>
> >>> The door panel spec says that the rear tires require 80 psi.
>
> >>> The sidewall specs on the rear tires say that the maximum pressure is
> >>> 80 psi.
>
> >>> So, what does cold pressure mean exactly?
>
> >>> If I check the tires on a cold morning (say 35 degrees) I will end up
> >>> putting in a few extra pounds more that I would at 70 degrees. But I
> >>> bet the operating temperature of a tire is largely independent of
> >>> whether the ambient temperature is 35 or 70.
>
> >> Does the door panel actually say 80 psi is the REQUIRED pressure? Or
> >> is it the maximum pressure with the recommended pressure something
> >> closer to 60 psi?
>
> > It's the recommended presssure in the rear tires. The recommended
> > pressure
> > in the front tires is 60 psi.
>
> > The Ford E350 is a weird vehicle.
>
> it's also cheap, nasty and built by frod. *the exploder fiasco shows
> frod will simply disregard safety if there's money to be made.
>
> --
> nomina rutrum rutrum- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Explorer is considered the more rollover-prone vehicle ever made.

The Ford E350 is merely the most rollover-prone vehicle still made, or
at least tied
for this distinction.

On Nov 30, 3:07*pm, "Steve W." > wrote:
> Tom Adams wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 10:57 pm, jim beam > wrote:
> >> On 11/29/2010 06:57 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>
> >>> Tom Adams wrote:
> >>>> I help maintain a Ford E350 used for a vanpool.
> >>>> The door panel spec says that the rear tires require 80 psi.
> >>> That is great IF the tires on the van are the same ones that came from
> >>> the factory. Otherwise it's basically crap.
> >> well, it might be crap for the tire, but it's not for the van's
> >> stability. *you certainly don't want the pressure to be less than that
> >> if it's loaded - and vanpools usually are.
>
> >>>> The sidewall specs on the rear tires say that the maximum pressure is
> >>>> 80 psi.
> >>> And what does the chart for that tire say the operating pressure should
> >>> be given the load you carry? If your not driving around at the GVW all
> >>> day then you probably also don't need the maximum pressure.
> >>>> So, what does cold pressure mean exactly?
> >>> Cold pressure means NO drive time on the tire. What it reads after the
> >>> van has sat long enough for the tires to reach ambient air temperature.
> >>> So you come out in the AM, Start the engine so it warms up and check the
> >>> tire air pressure. (Don't forget to check the spare)
> >>>> If I check the tires on a cold morning (say 35 degrees) I will end up
> >>>> putting in a few extra pounds more that I would at 70 degrees. * But I
> >>>> bet the operating temperature of a tire is largely independent of
> >>>> whether the ambient temperature is 35 or 70.
> >>> That is why you check the pressure at whatever the "normal" temp is for
> >>> the given season. So if you normally see 35-40 degrees during the winter
> >>> check it at 37 degrees. The small amount of change won't make much
> >>> difference.
> >>> Same in the spring and summer. If the "normal" temps are around 80
> >>> degrees then check it at that temp.
> >> --
> >> nomina rutrum rutrum- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I think I will thicken the plot a bit.
>
> > We recently had a bumpy feel in the steering wheel. *The mechanics
> > found a "broken belt" in the left rear (probably just a separated
> > belt, but I did not get to eyeball it). * Since then I have been
> > trying to figure out any possible causal factors. *None of the van
> > drivers recall hitting a pothole at high speed.
>
> > I had been checking the tires in the morning before the van was
> > driven, noting the pressure differential, and then adjusting the
> > pressure later in the day using the differentials.
>
> > I plan to start checking pressure at something closer to average
> > ambient, rather than the morning temperature. *That will probably
> > knock a pound or two off the maximum pressure when the van is in
> > operation.
>
> > This van has also has something called Rollgard
>
> >http://www.amtechsprings.net/portal/
>
> > I would call Rollgard a spring stiffener but "Rollgard is not a spring
> > stiffener" seems to be Rollgard's defacto motto ;-)
>
> > I personally think Rollgard is a sick joke. *There is no testing
> > data. *I read that they tried to get NHTSA to test it but were
> > declined. *All they have are testimonial letters on their web site,
> > some of which are laughable. *One says Rollgard shortens the turning
> > radius! *Rollgard makes drivers feel better because they detect less
> > sway in turns, I think. *I don't know if that translates into more or
> > less safety.
>
> > Anyway, I now have a theory that Rollgard is a tire belt breaker.
> > Makes sense that it would increase the forces on a tire on the bumpy
> > rural roads that we drive on part of our route.
>
> > Also, I think putting Rollgard on a vehicle makes it harder to sue
> > Ford in the case of a rollover. *But this is a conversion van anyway,
> > so that might also make it harder.
>
> > I think these vans have about average safety overall because of the
> > size advantage, but they are one of most (if not he most) rollover-
> > prone vehicles still made. *I think Ford may be paying up for
> > rollovers since they lost a suit a few years ago that left the judge
> > foaming at the mouth at Ford's practices.
>
> > Equipping a E350 with Rollgard probably makes it harder to extract
> > money from Ford in the case of a rollover or other design-related
> > failure.
>
> > And, left rear blowouts often lead to fatal rollovers in the E350.
>
> > BTW, the NHTSA says to use the door panel pressure. *80 psi in the
> > rear tires is probably about right when the van in close to fully
> > loaded:
>
> >http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/s...5-PassengerVan...
>
> > I don't think the van has sub-standard tires, but I will double-check
> > that.
>
> Read the web site. Regardless of what they call it that is nothing more
> than a helper spring. BUT it looks like it's a composite type so it
> likely doesn't have a lot of power.
>
> ALL vans and large vehicles are top heavy, They are ALL prone to roll
> over if they are not driven properly.
> The main reason why all of these vehicles are rolling over has to do
> with a lack of respect of the operator for the vehicles limits.

You can believe all that if you want, but you ever happen to ride in
an E350 just make sure your wife knows calls a personal injury lawyer
if it rollovers.

It's true that some vehicles are more rollover prone than others. But
there
are ways to measure rollover propensity and the E350 is at least tied
for
the worst one still made.

Heck, Ford does not even sell the 2009 E350 passenger van without Roll
Stability
Control. But we have a conversion van, a converted 2009 E350 *cargo*
van without the
stability control that is optional on the cargo van and standard on
the passenger van.

The fatality statistics for E350s that have rear tire blowouts at
highway speeds are really outrageous.

Read this but skip the sob stories and just read the parts where
Ford's whistleblowers and the accident reconstruction experts are
being interviewed:

http://www.collinsaav.com/alternativ...60minutes.html

>
> Take a Jeep CJ. You can take them off road and darn near climb trees and
> they won't roll over. Side hills are not a problem IF YOU GO SLOw. When
> they came out they were popular with drivers who had used them in combat
> and who respected they way they handled. The next generation was raised
> with them and were taught how they should be driven, BUT they didn't buy
> a lot of them when the older ones started failing. They wanted
> B I G G E R vehicles and moved to large cars and wagons. Their kids
> didn't get taught on narrow wheelbase vehicles, they were taught on huge
> land yachts that wouldn't roll over unless you were really stupid. So
> those kids and their parents more or less forgot how to deal with the
> smaller vehicles.
> So did their kids.
> Then 4X4s became popular again. What happens? These folks who had never
> though about vehicle dynamics bought up a ton of Jeeps, Small SUVs, Vans
> and figured that they could drive them just like they did the cars they
> had before. WRONG. They are not meant to be driven down a twisty road at
> 60 mph and tossed into corners like a car.
>
> End result, They roll over. Then these folks complain about it and the
> media (who were raised the same way) think that the problem is in the
> vehicles design.
> The truth is that most of the people who roll vehicles
> shouldn't be driving that type of vehicle in the first place.
>
> But since pointing a finger at the person and saying "You're an idiot
> for driving that way" is no longer an acceptable thing to do and
> personal responsibility is a forgotten concept, it's so much easier to
> say "It's (name company with money) fault, they made (insert product
> being used by an idiot here)"
>
> Think about this one.
> Everyone makes fun of the stickers that say things like
> "Do not use in the shower/bath" stuck on a hair drier or curling iron
> that is wall powered. Many look at that and say DUH! Who would be dumb
> enough to do that, it's just common sense.
> That sticker wouldn't be there if that didn't happen at some point and a
> *Judge and jury decided that the company that made it was at fault for
> not warning the user about that very danger!!!
>
> Go take a look at the visor warning tags that have to be on every 4X4
> and SUV now. The ones that warn you that these vehicles handle different
> and that you have to be careful. Care to guess why they are there?
>
> How about that maximum pressure warning on those tires. Think it is
> there because the maker got sued at one time because Billy Bob decided
> that 80 PSI just wasn't enough and tried to put 120 PSI in them "Like a
> REAL TRUCK TIRE"
>
> --
> Steve W.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Nov 30, 2:48*pm, jim beam > wrote:
> On 11/30/2010 09:23 AM, Tom Adams wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 10:57 pm, jim > *wrote:
> >> On 11/29/2010 06:57 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>
> >>> Tom Adams wrote:
> >>>> I help maintain a Ford E350 used for a vanpool.
>
> >>>> The door panel spec says that the rear tires require 80 psi.
>
> >>> That is great IF the tires on the van are the same ones that came from
> >>> the factory. Otherwise it's basically crap.
>
> >> well, it might be crap for the tire, but it's not for the van's
> >> stability. you certainly don't want the pressure to be less than that
> >> if it's loaded - and vanpools usually are.
>
> >>>> The sidewall specs on the rear tires say that the maximum pressure is
> >>>> 80 psi.
>
> >>> And what does the chart for that tire say the operating pressure should
> >>> be given the load you carry? If your not driving around at the GVW all
> >>> day then you probably also don't need the maximum pressure.
>
> >>>> So, what does cold pressure mean exactly?
>
> >>> Cold pressure means NO drive time on the tire. What it reads after the
> >>> van has sat long enough for the tires to reach ambient air temperature.
> >>> So you come out in the AM, Start the engine so it warms up and check the
> >>> tire air pressure. (Don't forget to check the spare)
>
> >>>> If I check the tires on a cold morning (say 35 degrees) I will end up
> >>>> putting in a few extra pounds more that I would at 70 degrees. But I
> >>>> bet the operating temperature of a tire is largely independent of
> >>>> whether the ambient temperature is 35 or 70.
>
> >>> That is why you check the pressure at whatever the "normal" temp is for
> >>> the given season. So if you normally see 35-40 degrees during the winter
> >>> check it at 37 degrees. The small amount of change won't make much
> >>> difference.
>
> >>> Same in the spring and summer. If the "normal" temps are around 80
> >>> degrees then check it at that temp.
>
> >> --
> >> nomina rutrum rutrum- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I think I will thicken the plot a bit.
>
> > We recently had a bumpy feel in the steering wheel. *The mechanics
> > found a "broken belt" in the left rear (probably just a separated
> > belt, but I did not get to eyeball it). * Since then I have been
> > trying to figure out any possible causal factors. *None of the van
> > drivers recall hitting a pothole at high speed.
>
> > I had been checking the tires in the morning before the van was
> > driven, noting the pressure differential, and then adjusting the
> > pressure later in the day using the differentials.
>
> > I plan to start checking pressure at something closer to average
> > ambient, rather than the morning temperature. *That will probably
> > knock a pound or two off the maximum pressure when the van is in
> > operation.
>
> > This van has also has something called Rollgard
>
> >http://www.amtechsprings.net/portal/
>
> > I would call Rollgard a spring stiffener but "Rollgard is not a spring
> > stiffener" seems to be Rollgard's defacto motto ;-)
>
> the reason it's not a "spring stiffener" is that the two moving arms on
> each end allow it to float. *but that also means the thing is doing
> absolutely nothing unless one of those ends bottoms against something.
> bottom line, you're just carrying extra weight and potentially rubbing
> fatigue initiation points into your real springs - i'd get rid of it
> immediately.

This is a transit authority van, so I cannot easily get changes made.

BTW, I called the makers of Rollgard and they said it was compatible
with ESC.
Our van does not have ESC, but its an option and the owner manual of
the van
covers it. The manual has a strongly worded warning about
modifications of the
suspension system.

(I was calling about ESC because I managed to get the State of NC to
start getting
the ESC option for all new vans and I was concerned that they might
still put Rollgard
on those ESC-equippef vans.)

Basically, the makers of Rollgard are obvously ignorant boobs.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I personally think Rollgard is a sick joke. *There is no testing
> > data. *I read that they tried to get NHTSA to test it but were
> > declined. *All they have are testimonial letters on their web site,
> > some of which are laughable. *One says Rollgard shortens the turning
> > radius! *Rollgard makes drivers feel better because they detect less
> > sway in turns, I think. *I don't know if that translates into more or
> > less safety.
>
> > Anyway, I now have a theory that Rollgard is a tire belt breaker.
> > Makes sense that it would increase the forces on a tire on the bumpy
> > rural roads that we drive on part of our route.
>
> > Also, I think putting Rollgard on a vehicle makes it harder to sue
> > Ford in the case of a rollover. *But this is a conversion van anyway,
> > so that might also make it harder.
>
> > I think these vans have about average safety overall because of the
> > size advantage, but they are one of most (if not he most) rollover-
> > prone vehicles still made. *I think Ford may be paying up for
> > rollovers since they lost a suit a few years ago that left the judge
> > foaming at the mouth at Ford's practices.
>
> > Equipping a E350 with Rollgard probably makes it harder to extract
> > money from Ford in the case of a rollover or other design-related
> > failure.
>
> > And, left rear blowouts often lead to fatal rollovers in the E350.
>
> > BTW, the NHTSA says to use the door panel pressure. *80 psi in the
> > rear tires is probably about right when the van in close to fully
> > loaded:
>
> >http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/s...5-PassengerVan...
>
> > I don't think the van has sub-standard tires, but I will double-check
> > that.
>
> all tires are /not/ created equal. *get the best quality tires for this
> thing - you have multiple lives at stake - especially if you have a rear
> blowout and this thing becomes unstable and rolls. *commuter vans are
> terrible in the rollover stability department.
>
> --
> nomina rutrum rutrum- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Nov 30, 3:07*pm, "Steve W." > wrote:
> Tom Adams wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 10:57 pm, jim beam > wrote:
> >> On 11/29/2010 06:57 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>
> >>> Tom Adams wrote:
> >>>> I help maintain a Ford E350 used for a vanpool.
> >>>> The door panel spec says that the rear tires require 80 psi.
> >>> That is great IF the tires on the van are the same ones that came from
> >>> the factory. Otherwise it's basically crap.
> >> well, it might be crap for the tire, but it's not for the van's
> >> stability. *you certainly don't want the pressure to be less than that
> >> if it's loaded - and vanpools usually are.
>
> >>>> The sidewall specs on the rear tires say that the maximum pressure is
> >>>> 80 psi.
> >>> And what does the chart for that tire say the operating pressure should
> >>> be given the load you carry? If your not driving around at the GVW all
> >>> day then you probably also don't need the maximum pressure.
> >>>> So, what does cold pressure mean exactly?
> >>> Cold pressure means NO drive time on the tire. What it reads after the
> >>> van has sat long enough for the tires to reach ambient air temperature.
> >>> So you come out in the AM, Start the engine so it warms up and check the
> >>> tire air pressure. (Don't forget to check the spare)
> >>>> If I check the tires on a cold morning (say 35 degrees) I will end up
> >>>> putting in a few extra pounds more that I would at 70 degrees. * But I
> >>>> bet the operating temperature of a tire is largely independent of
> >>>> whether the ambient temperature is 35 or 70.
> >>> That is why you check the pressure at whatever the "normal" temp is for
> >>> the given season. So if you normally see 35-40 degrees during the winter
> >>> check it at 37 degrees. The small amount of change won't make much
> >>> difference.
> >>> Same in the spring and summer. If the "normal" temps are around 80
> >>> degrees then check it at that temp.
> >> --
> >> nomina rutrum rutrum- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I think I will thicken the plot a bit.
>
> > We recently had a bumpy feel in the steering wheel. *The mechanics
> > found a "broken belt" in the left rear (probably just a separated
> > belt, but I did not get to eyeball it). * Since then I have been
> > trying to figure out any possible causal factors. *None of the van
> > drivers recall hitting a pothole at high speed.
>
> > I had been checking the tires in the morning before the van was
> > driven, noting the pressure differential, and then adjusting the
> > pressure later in the day using the differentials.
>
> > I plan to start checking pressure at something closer to average
> > ambient, rather than the morning temperature. *That will probably
> > knock a pound or two off the maximum pressure when the van is in
> > operation.
>
> > This van has also has something called Rollgard
>
> >http://www.amtechsprings.net/portal/
>
> > I would call Rollgard a spring stiffener but "Rollgard is not a spring
> > stiffener" seems to be Rollgard's defacto motto ;-)
>
> > I personally think Rollgard is a sick joke. *There is no testing
> > data. *I read that they tried to get NHTSA to test it but were
> > declined. *All they have are testimonial letters on their web site,
> > some of which are laughable. *One says Rollgard shortens the turning
> > radius! *Rollgard makes drivers feel better because they detect less
> > sway in turns, I think. *I don't know if that translates into more or
> > less safety.
>
> > Anyway, I now have a theory that Rollgard is a tire belt breaker.
> > Makes sense that it would increase the forces on a tire on the bumpy
> > rural roads that we drive on part of our route.
>
> > Also, I think putting Rollgard on a vehicle makes it harder to sue
> > Ford in the case of a rollover. *But this is a conversion van anyway,
> > so that might also make it harder.
>
> > I think these vans have about average safety overall because of the
> > size advantage, but they are one of most (if not he most) rollover-
> > prone vehicles still made. *I think Ford may be paying up for
> > rollovers since they lost a suit a few years ago that left the judge
> > foaming at the mouth at Ford's practices.
>
> > Equipping a E350 with Rollgard probably makes it harder to extract
> > money from Ford in the case of a rollover or other design-related
> > failure.
>
> > And, left rear blowouts often lead to fatal rollovers in the E350.
>
> > BTW, the NHTSA says to use the door panel pressure. *80 psi in the
> > rear tires is probably about right when the van in close to fully
> > loaded:
>
> >http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/s...5-PassengerVan...
>
> > I don't think the van has sub-standard tires, but I will double-check
> > that.
>
> Read the web site. Regardless of what they call it that is nothing more
> than a helper spring. BUT it looks like it's a composite type so it
> likely doesn't have a lot of power.
>
> ALL vans and large vehicles are top heavy, They are ALL prone to roll
> over if they are not driven properly.
> The main reason why all of these vehicles are rolling over has to do
> with a lack of respect of the operator for the vehicles limits.
>
> Take a Jeep CJ. You can take them off road and darn near climb trees and
> they won't roll over. Side hills are not a problem IF YOU GO SLOw. When
> they came out they were popular with drivers who had used them in combat
> and who respected they way they handled. The next generation was raised
> with them and were taught how they should be driven, BUT they didn't buy
> a lot of them when the older ones started failing. They wanted
> B I G G E R vehicles and moved to large cars and wagons. Their kids
> didn't get taught on narrow wheelbase vehicles, they were taught on huge
> land yachts that wouldn't roll over unless you were really stupid. So
> those kids and their parents more or less forgot how to deal with the
> smaller vehicles.
> So did their kids.
> Then 4X4s became popular again. What happens? These folks who had never
> though about vehicle dynamics bought up a ton of Jeeps, Small SUVs, Vans
> and figured that they could drive them just like they did the cars they
> had before. WRONG. They are not meant to be driven down a twisty road at
> 60 mph and tossed into corners like a car.
>
> End result, They roll over. Then these folks complain about it and the
> media (who were raised the same way) think that the problem is in the
> vehicles design. The truth is that most of the people who roll vehicles
> shouldn't be driving that type of vehicle in the first place.
>
> But since pointing a finger at the person and saying "You're an idiot
> for driving that way" is no longer an acceptable thing to do and
> personal responsibility is a forgotten concept, it's so much easier to
> say "It's (name company with money) fault, they made (insert product
> being used by an idiot here)"
>
> Think about this one.
> Everyone makes fun of the stickers that say things like
> "Do not use in the shower/bath" stuck on a hair drier or curling iron
> that is wall powered. Many look at that and say DUH! Who would be dumb
> enough to do that, it's just common sense.
> That sticker wouldn't be there if that didn't happen at some point and a
> *Judge and jury decided that the company that made it was at fault for
> not warning the user about that very danger!!!
>
> Go take a look at the visor warning tags that have to be on every 4X4
> and SUV now. The ones that warn you that these vehicles handle different
> and that you have to be careful. Care to guess why they are there?
>
> How about that maximum pressure warning on those tires. Think it is
> there because the maker got sued at one time because Billy Bob decided
> that 80 PSI just wasn't enough and tried to put 120 PSI in them "Like a
> REAL TRUCK TIRE"
>
> --
> Steve W.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"Vehicles ought to be able to slide sideways on dry, smooth pavement
without rolling over. The Ford and Chrysler 15-passenger vans flunk
this test."

This is a good write-up that is more technically-oriented than the 60
Minutes report:

http://www.ammonslaw.com/publication...-passenger-van

The problem for Ford is that their internal documents, whistleblowers,
and employees under oath indicate a design problem.

I guess its a matter of degree as to what is and is not a design flow.

Tom Adams wrote:
>> ALL vans and large vehicles are top heavy, They are ALL prone to roll
>> over if they are not driven properly.
>> The main reason why all of these vehicles are rolling over has to do
>> with a lack of respect of the operator for the vehicles limits.
>
> You can believe all that if you want, but you ever happen to ride in
> an E350 just make sure your wife knows calls a personal injury lawyer
> if it rollovers.

I drive them every day, Ambulaces and ambulette types. As well as the
ones in my department.
Take a look at the next ambulance you see. It is probably either an
E350 or a GM 3500. Pretty much what gets used.

Think that they don't get driven HARD and at far above highway speeds?

BUT they are also driven by people who are TRAINED how to drive them.
They slow down for corners, pay attention to curves and more.

>
> It's true that some vehicles are more rollover prone than others. But
> there
> are ways to measure rollover propensity and the E350 is at least tied
> for
> the worst one still made.
>
> Heck, Ford does not even sell the 2009 E350 passenger van without Roll
> Stability
> Control. But we have a conversion van, a converted 2009 E350 *cargo*
> van without the
> stability control that is optional on the cargo van and standard on
> the passenger van.

Never had it on any that I drove. And never had a problem as long as you
drive the vehicle within it's limits.

>
> The fatality statistics for E350s that have rear tire blowouts at
> highway speeds are really outrageous.
>
> Read this but skip the sob stories and just read the parts where
> Ford's whistleblowers and the accident reconstruction experts are
> being interviewed:

And read about how NBC and CBS RIGGED stories about GM gas tanks and
other vehicle problems.

If you have such a fear of driving them then get out of the job. Simple.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Tom Adams" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 29, 4:52 pm, "hls" > wrote:
>
> If you are going to be on the highway, then you can stop and measure
> the hot pressure when you fuel. You can reduce them to 80PSI if
> you tire says 80psi maximum pressure.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If I set them to 80 cold, then they are around 84 after highway
driving.

************
Sure. They heat up when driving at highway speed.

You can trim them back to 80 hot if you wish.

A lot depends upon how loaded your truck is. If it is heavily loaded
but tires are not up to recommended pressure, you may encounter
problems.

Unloaded, you can tolerate less pressure.

Tom Adams wrote:
>
> "Vehicles ought to be able to slide sideways on dry, smooth pavement
> without rolling over. The Ford and Chrysler 15-passenger vans flunk
> this test."
>
> This is a good write-up that is more technically-oriented than the 60
> Minutes report:
>
> http://www.ammonslaw.com/publication...-passenger-van
>
> The problem for Ford is that their internal documents, whistleblowers,
> and employees under oath indicate a design problem.
>
> I guess its a matter of degree as to what is and is not a design flow.


BULLSH*T....

I can roll ANY vehicle in a sideways slide on dry pavement.
I have seen an Abrams tank that went over due to being cranked around
hard on dry pavement.

Ever seen a race event, Think that an Indy car which will stick to the
road with a LOT better grip than any passenger car ever will have won't
roll? Happens all the time.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Nov 30, 4:27*pm, "Steve W." > wrote:
> Tom Adams wrote:
> >> ALL vans and large vehicles are top heavy, They are ALL prone to roll
> >> over if they are not driven properly.
> >> The main reason why all of these vehicles are rolling over has to do
> >> with a lack of respect of the operator for the vehicles limits.
>
> > You can believe all that if you want, but you ever happen to ride in
> > an E350 just make sure your wife knows calls a personal injury lawyer
> > if it rollovers.
>
> I drive them every day, Ambulaces and ambulette types. As well as the
> ones in my department.
> Take a look at the next ambulance you see. It is probably either an
> E350 or a GM 3500. Pretty much what gets used.
>
> Think that they don't get driven HARD and at far above highway speeds?
>
> BUT they are also driven by people who are TRAINED how to drive them.
> They slow down for corners, pay attention to curves and more.
>
>
>
> > It's true that some vehicles are more rollover prone than others. *But
> > there
> > are ways to measure rollover propensity and the E350 is at least tied
> > for
> > the worst one still made.
>
> > Heck, Ford does not even sell the 2009 E350 passenger van without Roll
> > Stability
> > Control. *But we have a conversion van, a converted 2009 E350 *cargo*
> > van without the
> > stability control that is optional on the cargo van and standard on
> > the passenger van.
>
> Never had it on any that I drove. And never had a problem as long as you
> drive the vehicle within it's limits.
>
>
>
> > The fatality statistics for E350s that have rear tire blowouts at
> > highway speeds are really outrageous.
>
> > Read this but skip the sob stories and just read the parts where
> > Ford's whistleblowers and the accident reconstruction experts are
> > being interviewed:
>
> And read about how NBC and CBS RIGGED stories about GM gas tanks and
> other vehicle problems.

So what? I was trying to direct your attention to the substance of
the stories, the wistleblowers, the accident reconstrution experts,
the experts who measure and analyze how roll-over prone these vehicles
are.

Who would care about the medium?

I am sure that every news outlet has made mistakes. So you always
have to evaluate the actual information, not the medium.

Anyway, your resorting to this kind of stuff is an indicator that you
can't handle the facts I am throwing at you.

Ford is losing in court because if info directly from Ford. It has
nothing to do with NBC or CBS.

>
> If you have such a fear of driving them then get out of the job. Simple.
>

I don't fear driving them. As I said earlier, I think they have
overall average safety. They have also have a design advantage: size.

I posted here in an attempt to understand how to maintain the van
better. It's obvious that the safety of these vans is very sensitive
to maintenance.

The ambulances probably have a different load distribution than the
usual 15 passeger van. That should (1) reduce the load on the left
rear tire reducing the chance of the kind of tire failure we had (2)
make the load more evenly distributed making handling easier (3)
reduce the oversteering problen caused by having 4 passengers seated
behind the rear wheel.

My van is also safer than the old 15 passenger vans. We have a center
aisle that evens out the load and our van has only has 13 seats.

Also, transit vans have a good safety record, probably because they
are better maintained, newer, and have more rested drivers. The
problems seem to be with poorly maintained older vans on longer hauls.

On Nov 29, 3:26*pm, Tom Adams > wrote:
> I help maintain a Ford E350 used for a vanpool.
>
> The door panel spec says that the rear tires require 80 psi.
>
> The sidewall specs on the rear tires say that the maximum pressure is
> 80 psi.
>
> So, what does cold pressure mean exactly?
>
> If I check the tires on a cold morning (say 35 degrees) I will end up
> putting in a few extra pounds more that I would at 70 degrees. * But I
> bet the operating temperature of a tire is largely independent of
> whether the ambient temperature is 35 or 70.
_______________

Folks it's really quite simple. Whether it's January or July when you
check your tire pressures early in the morning before it's driven you
want them set to 80psi(in this van's case).

My Kia optima calls for 30PSI cold. If I concerned myself with the
calculations that derive that I should put in 36psi in January and 30
in July I'd probably wind up in a MENTAL HOSPITAL!!!!!

K.I.S.S:

If you go out in February and the van's tires are only 70psi and Ford
specifies 80psi(coincidentally by the way the same as the tires Max
pressure), you fill them up to 80psi. Ditto in July or August.

Simple!

-CC

Yep, it is as simple as it can be.
cuhulin