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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of
nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should also.... I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but will run fine if it is just idling |
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#2
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
Looks like you changed/tested everything, except one of the first
things you shoulda done. Change the fuel filter. |
#3
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
On Sep 4, 12:12*am, wrote:
> This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of > nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the > next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out > of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so > far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did > it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it > still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it > never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the > ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car > that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel > pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I > swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it > was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I > tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a > vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem > like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb > cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp > and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put > the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should > also.... * I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both > stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs > and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really > don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is > this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is > really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens > at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate > and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but > will run fine if it is just idling I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red light, it would bog and stall.. It would re-start and run fine.. I never did find the problem... At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem.. I replaced it and that did not fix it... Let us know if you figure it out... Mark |
#4
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
On Sep 4, 10:03*am, Mark > wrote:
> On Sep 4, 12:12*am, wrote: > > > > > > > This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of > > nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the > > next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out > > of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so > > far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did > > it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it > > still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it > > never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the > > ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car > > that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel > > pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I > > swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it > > was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I > > tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a > > vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem > > like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb > > cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp > > and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put > > the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should > > also.... * I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both > > stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs > > and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really > > don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is > > this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is > > really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens > > at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate > > and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but > > will run fine if it is just idling > > I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would > run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red > light, it would bog and stall.. * *It would re-start and run fine.. > > I never did find the problem... > > At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem.. > I replaced it and that did not fix it... > > Let us know if you figure it out... > > Mark- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I forgot to add , in my case it seems it would never happen twice in a row..you had to be stopped and idling at a light for a minute or so before it would happen.. just a quick stop and it would never happen, and it would never happen after a re-start, you had to sit idling in drive for a minute or two before it would happen... very tough to troubleshoot... you would really need to instrument the car to determine if it was a spark or fuel problem or what... to the other poster, i don't see how this could be a fuel filter problem... please let us know if you ever figure it out |
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:10:32 -0700 (PDT), Mark >
wrote: >> I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would >> run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red >> light, it would bog and stall.. ? ?It would re-start and run fine.. >> >> I never did find the problem... >> >> At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem.. >> I replaced it and that did not fix it... >> >> Let us know if you figure it out... >> >> Mark- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >I forgot to add , in my case it seems it would never happen twice in a >row..you had to be stopped and idling at a light for a minute or so >before it would happen.. just a quick stop and it would never >happen, and it would never happen after a re-start, you had to sit >idling in drive for a minute or two before it would happen... > >very tough to troubleshoot... you would really need to instrument the >car to determine if it was a spark or fuel problem or what... > >to the other poster, i don't see how this could be a fuel filter >problem... > >please let us know if you ever figure it out > Think the 4's had throttle body, but my '88 Celebrity 2.8 with MFI had similar symptoms. Stalled leaving a stop light, but not always. Progressed a couple weeks later to stumbling while accelerating, but not always. My mechanic replaced 2 injectors and that fixed it. --Vic |
#6
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
Mark wrote: > > On Sep 4, 10:03 am, Mark > wrote: > > On Sep 4, 12:12 am, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of > > > nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the > > > next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out > > > of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so > > > far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did > > > it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it > > > still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it > > > never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the > > > ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car > > > that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel > > > pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I > > > swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it > > > was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I > > > tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a > > > vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem > > > like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb > > > cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp > > > and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put > > > the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should > > > also.... I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both > > > stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs > > > and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really > > > don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is > > > this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is > > > really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens > > > at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate > > > and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but > > > will run fine if it is just idling > > > > I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would > > run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red > > light, it would bog and stall.. It would re-start and run fine.. > > > > I never did find the problem... > > > > At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem.. > > I replaced it and that did not fix it... > > > > Let us know if you figure it out... > > > > Mark- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > I forgot to add , in my case it seems it would never happen twice in a > row..you had to be stopped and idling at a light for a minute or so > before it would happen.. just a quick stop and it would never > happen, and it would never happen after a re-start, you had to sit > idling in drive for a minute or two before it would happen... No trouble codes? there are 3 possibilities. Too much fuel - too little fuel - not enough spark. It would help if you figured out which. Your description suggests not enough fuel as the most likely. Doesn't this engine have a vacuum controlled pressure regulator that controls fuel pressure to the rail? If so the pressure should drop when idling and increase when you step on the gas. The vacuum hose to the regulator can collapses after idling for a while and that might cause the symptoms. Or I suppose the regulator could just be sticky, but those are just wild guesses based on the assumption it is not getting enough gas which could be wrong. -jim > > very tough to troubleshoot... you would really need to instrument the > car to determine if it was a spark or fuel problem or what... > > to the other poster, i don't see how this could be a fuel filter > problem... > > please let us know if you ever figure it out ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#7
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
thanks for the replys, I forgot to add I did also change the fuel
filter... it was actually the first thing i did. And it did nothing. When i check the fuel pressure it reads high 30s at idle and when i step on the gas it does increase. It seems like it is not getting enough fuel to me, when it starts to bog if i spray a little carb cleaner in the hole for the air dam it picks it back up instead of killing it like it normally would. But my pressure looks good and I tried injectors out of another car that has been working just fine... So i don't know how it would not get enough fuel? |
#9
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
On Sep 4, 12:05*pm, wrote:
> thanks for the replys, I forgot to add I did also change the fuel > filter... it was actually the first thing i did. And it did nothing. > When i check the fuel pressure it reads high 30s at idle and when i > step on the gas it does increase. It seems like it is not getting > enough fuel to me, when it starts to bog if i spray a little carb > cleaner in the hole for the air dam it picks it back up instead of > killing it like it normally would. But my pressure looks good and I > tried injectors out of another car that has been working just fine... > So i don't know how it would not get enough fuel? if you can get the problem to happen in the garage while you are troubleshooting it, then you may have a chance. Mine would only happen when i was actually driving it... So if the problem is a lack of fuel problem and you have changed the injector(s) and the fuel supply pressure is good,.... can you monitor the electrical signals feeding to the injectors with an o'scope if you can or at least a voltmeter. If the voltage (or pulse width actually) drops or does not increase when it should, then we know the computer is not telling the injector to inject more gas for some reason when it should be when you step on the gas... i.e. is the computer not telling the injector to spray more gas? or is the computer telling the injector to spray more, but the injector does not or cannot obey? Mark |
#10
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1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration
ok all good stuff.... and I was checking the fuel pressure while it
was having the bogging issue. The problem is random and only happens some of the time, but it will happen with the car parked or me driving it. I would by hand move the throttle linkage with the gauge attached and watch the gauge. As the car started to bog the pressure would actually stay the same or climb it would never drop.... Is it possible for the pressure to be at spec but still have too low volume? As far as the map sensor and tps sensor, the map sensor i replaced with a known good one and did not change. I hooked my meter up to it and it read correctly, with and without me jiggling the wires around and tugging on them. the tps sensor pretty much the same deal except i didn't put on another sensor, i just test it similar to the map. It shows smooth operation from closed to wot. Does anyone know where the ecm is at on this beast, I want to check the wires going directly into it? |
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