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  #81  
Old October 8th 05, 11:09 PM
Leon van Dommelen
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M. Cantera > wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:33:31 GMT,
>(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>>M. Cantera > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:55:32 GMT,

>>>(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>>>
>>>>M. Cantera > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:38:28 GMT, "tooloud" >
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>The other day, I had to laugh as I watched a guy stop a C6 Corvette in a
>>>>>>SuperTarget parking lot, open the hood, check the oil, and pour an entire
>>>>>>quart into the engine. He didn't seem surprised to be doing this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wanted to run over and scream "But it's a brand new car!"
>>>>>
>>>>>It is normal for new engines to consume oil during the break in period
>>>>>(it is called that because the moving surfaces such as piston rings
>>>>>need to wear down rough spots. Oil leaks past the rough spots during
>>>>>breaking-in).
>>>>
>>>>There should not be rough spots with modern tolerances.

>
>>>
>>>Cast iron cylinder bores aren normally honed is cross hatched pattern
>>>at about 45 degrees to the piston travel they need not be as smooth as
>>>possible (relatively speaking) . This is to allow the new rings, which
>>>are tapered on the outside and which are compressed by the cylinder
>>>wall, to wear themselves into the shape against the cylinder. The wear
>>>process normally takes place within the first 50 hours of operation
>>>after which oil comsumption stabilizes.
>>>
>>>This is why manufacturer advise against operating a new engine at
>>>constant rpm and loads for extended periods of time.

>>
>>They used to when tolerances were not what they are now, and
>>have been for many years. For example, Mazda already stated for the
>>1989 Miata that no special break-in is necessary. And I did not use
>>a drop of oil during the break in, let alone the quart you appear
>>to find normal.

>
>I did not state that a one quart was normal for a 1.8 liter Mazda
>engine.
>
>Also, all engines consume oil during normal operation. An engine with
>abnormally low oil use is not lubricating the compression rings.
>Metal to metal contact is not good. If you can not detect oil
>comsumption in an engine, it is either because the oil change interval
>is too short or the accumulation of contaminats in the oil is equal to
>the rate of oil use.
>
>The Mazda 1.8 has 83 mm bore and 85 mm stroke. The original post
>referred to a Corvette which is equiped with a 5.5 liter engine with
>99 mm bores and a 92 mm stroke. The cylinder area swept by the top
>compression ring is 88600 and 228900 square millimeters respectively.
>One engine has 2.57 times greater cylinder surface area than the
>other. Opertating conditions being the same, I would expect oil
>comsumption rates to be proportionally less in the smaller engine when
>operated at similar rpms and loads. Assuming a full quart was
>required of the Corvette engine would be 0.4 quarts in the Miata.


Your point about the larger swept cylinder surface area in the Corvette
engine is well taken. It would be hard for us Miata owners to note less
than half a quart of oil loss, so maybe the Corvette observation is not
as far out as it seemed.

>>
>>Mazda does recommend that you do not maintain a constant speed for
>>long during the first 600 miles, since it *may* add to performance,
>>economy, and life of your Mazda. However, Mazda does not advise against
>>doing those things.

>Lower performance perhaps because the engine does not achieve optimum
>compression due to impreperly seated rings?


Note the "perhaps" and "may" (on Mazda's part.).

>>Also, I am sure the only reason is a good polishing process of the
>>metal surfaces such as piston rings versus cylinders that you mention,
>>but not to stop oil leaks, as is apparently necessary for the Corvette.

>
>The polishing processdis to create the ideal surface that allows the
>right ammount of engine oil to adhere to the surface of the cylinder
>when the piston is at the top of the travel. The oil rings scrape the
>excess off leaving the oil in between the scratches. That oil is left
>to lubircate the rings on the compression and power strokes.
>
>The cylindel wall look like this when new: /\/\/\/\/\/\ with excess
>oil in the valleys exposed to the combustion chanber.
>
>After break in the it is more lime \_/\_/\_/\_/ (piston ring travels
>on the side of the flat spots.
>
>>Now the way I understand it, US manufacturers have been achieving
>>tolerances approaching those of the Japanese for quite some time now,
>>so it seems strange that the Corvette apparently does not in the 21st
>>century.
>>

>Acceptable oil use was 1 qt / 1000 miles for 1960 era v-8.
>>> Manufaturers
>>>also advise against operating at high rpms during break in because it
>>>can lead to oil "glazing" the cylinder walls and uneven break in of
>>>the rings.

>>
>>Mazda does not, and I would assume it to be the same for other foreign
>>manufacturers as well as US manufacturers meeting modern tolerances.
>>Anyone knows whether Honda puts a break-in restriction on the 9000
>>rpm of the S2000?

>
>
>See
http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar129832.htm for a good
>illustration of the modern piston and ring technology. Anyone
>familiar with the Toyota and VW sludging problems knows that some of
>the side effects or tighter tolerances are not always good.


I assume you mean "tight clearances", *not* "tight tolerances"?

Leon

>>
>>Leon
>>
>>>>
>>>>> The 6 liter C-6 engine has a 5.5 quart capacity so that
>>>>
>>>>The 1.8l Miata engine has 4 quarts, which is almost the same.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>quart was not a hughe percentage of the engine capacity.
>>>>
>>>>Leon

--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
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  #83  
Old October 10th 05, 01:24 PM
David
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Perhaps the guy had just changed his oil, but realized he had not bought
enough oil, so he had to add one more quart. duh

  #84  
Old October 10th 05, 10:32 PM
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On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:41:31 -0400, (David)
wrote:

>I'm a long time lurker, occasional commenter...but this time I must
>speak out. I have owned maaany GM's thru the years. I rarely had
>problems with any of them. I currently drive a 1995 Chevy S10 Blazer
>that I couldn't be more happy with. We've got 225,000 miles on this
>mini-hulk, and just took it for a 1,000 mile road trip to Daytona Beach
>with no issues what so ever. There are VERY FEW cars I would trust
>heading out on a 1,000 mile trek in a vehicle w/ 200,000+ miles on it.
>Sure it has had the typical repairs consistent with any high mileage
>car...master cyl., A/C compressor, alternator, timing chain set, but
>thats all I've ever had to do to it. It does not drip, smoke, knock, or
>have ANY major problems. All of the power options (windows, door locks,
>etc.) work perfectly. The numbers from my Sept 2005 State Emissions Test
>were flawless...engine runs as clean as a new car. I get 23mpg highway
>in this little brute too...not bad for a 4,000+ lb. vehicle. It has a
>strrrong 200 boat/camper pulling, neck snapping horses too.That's
>better mileage than the light-weight under-powered mini SUV's in it's
>class such as the horrible Kia Sportage. Just read some consumer reports
>on "That" P.O.S. I also "had" a Miata. A 1990 that I sold about a year
>ago. I sold her with just under 150K miles on it "because" at this
>relatively young age, she was fading fast. Rear main seal was starting
>to drip just a tad, clutch was starting to slip if you didn't keep your
>foot out of the gas going up long inclines, soft-top (2nd one) starting
>to fall apart, had a dead cyl. (burnt valve) at 117K miles. Paint
>(classic red) was SHOT. Windows would barely go up & down even after
>countless adj,'s & lubes. Rear differential was starting to get a
>SERIOUS whine in it. The dreaded front crank pulley wobble was beginning
>to appear (keyway wore-out/cracked crank) Trunk lock never did work
>smoothly, ignition switch was sloppy & in need of replacement (had to
>wiggle the key to get the wipers to work), top tank (plastic!) on the
>radiator split like a banana peel, and many other problems too numerous
>to list. Don't get me wrong...I'm not Miata bashing. I must admit the
>Miata was the "funnest" car I've ever owned, but I doubt you will ever
>see one on the road with 200K+ miles on it without a major overhaul. I
>just wanted to have my say...& defend the American cars that so many
>people love to hate. When taken proper care of, they'll last a lifetime.
>GM has come a loooong way in quality the past 10yrs. Try one!
>






I bought a new 2002 Silverado 1500HD LT 3 years ago.
To date the tranny had to be repaired twice and when it failed for the
3rd time, it was finally replaced with some old (GM certified) rebuild
that came out of an old tow truck or similar vehicle.
The motor is starting to fail as per engine knock and oil analysis.
This truck has less than 48,000 km on it to date.
motor 6.0 L
tranny 480le
Had been a Chevy fan for over 40 years but will have to look at Jap.
design and or build for the wife's car. That is the reason I'm looking
for info in this and other newsgroups.
I've narrowed the field down to Honda or Mazda products as per
consumers reports in regards to value and reliability.

The one thing I'm glad I did was sell my GM shares some time ago.
  #86  
Old October 14th 05, 04:01 AM
tooloud
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Dana H. Myers wrote:

<snip>

>>> Nissan specifies a break-in period for the 3.5l V-6.

>>
>>
>> What cars is it used on, and how much hp does it make?

>
> 350Z, Infiniti G35. Specified at 287hp.


It's time I talked about my dirty little secret: I own something resembling
an SUV, an Infiniti FX35 with the 3.5 V-6, tuned to 280 HP. I believe there
was a break-in period recommended, but I don't know what it is.

--
tooloud
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