stuck caliper...

Confound it!! So I was all set to replace clutch master and slave cyls
today on my 94 Civic, and hit a massive NYC pothole on the way to my
friends' garage (level, enclosed). Shortly after the pothole I hear this
scraping sound from my left front wheel, worse when I braked.

So I get to the garage and get the wheel off to discover that the
outside pad is worn completely down, compared with the right wheel which
has still thick pads with tens of thousands of miles left on them. The
pothole must have knocked out the last vestiges of the pad, thereby
causing the backing plate to score the rotor. DAMN! I don't think it's
scored too badly to use--a bit within the outside half-inch of the
rotation. I expect the new pads would seat OK after a few thousand
miles. I'll sand it a tad to deglaze--180-grit OK?

OK, I flip the caliper up and find that the damned piston is stuck
extended. The other side is retracted as it should be. Looks like I get
to do my brakes now, too. Hell, may as well get my hands even dirtier...
I'm game. Too bad my wife and I have to take the train to our
Thanksgiving destination...

Q is this: I didn't have time to deal with disconnecting the brake line
to see if it's the hose that's frozen (it bends fine, but I guess that
wouldn't tell me much). How should I proceed? Hose or caliper? I don't
have the ability to spend days running back and forth between the car
and the auto parts store, which would have to order the parts anyway, so
I'd rather order more and return what I don't need.

It appeared that the hose is in several sections. Is there a likely
section that gets plugged? I've checked Majestic and SL Honda online,
and can't find a front caliper assembly in the parts list. I'm in the
right section, but no caliper listed, and the ominous "some of the parts
displayed may no longer be available" note on the diagram. I can't find
the hoses at all. HELP! Any problem getting these parts through my local
auto-parts place?

An item of note: the piston doesn't screw in on the front. Don't know
about the back, but I can just use a C-clamp on the front. BTW, I picked
up Bendix "OEM" pads before I thought to check if the caliper was
stuck--these OK?

Thanks as always for the collective wisdom here. I'd be less confident
without you.

"TeGGer®" > wrote
Abeness wrote
> > Don't know
> > about the back,
>
>
> On the back you have drums.

On a 94 Civic EX? (Abness has posted in the past that he has an EX.)

Majestic says at least some EX's have disc brakes on the rear.

"TeGGer®" > wrote
Abeness wrote
> > Don't know
> > about the back,
>
>
> On the back you have drums.

On a 94 Civic EX? (Abness has posted in the past that he has an EX.)

Majestic says at least some EX's have disc brakes on the rear.

"Abeness" > wrote
snip
> Q is this: I didn't have time to deal with disconnecting the brake line
> to see if it's the hose that's frozen (it bends fine, but I guess that
> wouldn't tell me much). How should I proceed? Hose or caliper? I don't
> have the ability to spend days running back and forth between the car
> and the auto parts store, which would have to order the parts anyway, so
> I'd rather order more and return what I don't need.
>
> It appeared that the hose is in several sections. Is there a likely
> section that gets plugged?

I haven't seen reports of brake hoses plugging with debris.

Brake pistons do freeze in their cylinders, though. I completely disassembled my
front brakes this past summer. As you can imagine, it doesn't take but a little
rust buildup on the piston/cylinder walls to impede operation.

Rust comes from moisture getting into the brake fluid. Brake fluid does have a
chemical tendency to absorb moisture, so a little rust shouldn't be a surprise.

> I've checked Majestic and SL Honda online,
> and can't find a front caliper assembly in the parts list. I'm in the
> right section, but no caliper listed, and the ominous "some of the parts
> displayed may no longer be available" note on the diagram. I can't find
> the hoses at all. HELP! Any problem getting these parts through my local
> auto-parts place?

I double checked you at Majestic (94 Civic EX manual tranny) and see what you
mean.

Yet they have the caliper listed for my 91 Civic. It's also listed for the 93
Civic EX.

I'd email Majestic. I bet they have a full caliper. Better, they do sell
remanufactured calipers. Still better, have you ever worked with local salvage
yards? I priced remanufactured calipers at these where I live and even went to
look at them. They look a lot better than mine (externally). The price was far
less than Majestic's new calipers and IIRC their reman'd calipers, too.

Autozone and/or Pep Boys I believe sells reman'd calipers, too.

I'm not sure what the consensus is here at the group re Autozone et al. reman'd
calipers, though. I think some folks have concerns about non-OEM rubber. Isn't
as tough, in short, but I dunno how true this is.

> An item of note: the piston doesn't screw in on the front. Don't know
> about the back, but I can just use a C-clamp on the front. BTW, I picked
> up Bendix "OEM" pads before I thought to check if the caliper was
> stuck--these OK?

My own experience: My 91 Civic is on its third set of pads. Both the second and
third set of pads were non-OEM. I think the second set was intermediate in
price. The third set is Raybestos, top of the line for my car. I checked for
rotor wear a few months ago, and nothing seems out of the ordinary. At the
current rate, if thickness is the only consideration, they should easily last
another 159k miles.

I'm pretty sure next time I need new pads I will go OEM, though. First, because
they are about the same price as the top of the line Raybestos I bought. Two,
because I am a bit concerned that the Raybestos pads are harder. So they last
longer, but may be wearing the rotor more. Even though I don't have any signs of
abnormal wear.

I do have some scoring on one of the rotors, but the brakes work fine. I'll
monitor it everytime I rotate my tires, but otherwise I lose no sleep over it.

I have a manual transmission and almost always downshift, using the engine to
brake, though, so brake problems will be less obvious unless I go looking for
them.

I'm sure others will comment about pads here, so keep checking back, as always.
Or you can google. It comes up a lot.

"Abeness" > wrote
snip
> Q is this: I didn't have time to deal with disconnecting the brake line
> to see if it's the hose that's frozen (it bends fine, but I guess that
> wouldn't tell me much). How should I proceed? Hose or caliper? I don't
> have the ability to spend days running back and forth between the car
> and the auto parts store, which would have to order the parts anyway, so
> I'd rather order more and return what I don't need.
>
> It appeared that the hose is in several sections. Is there a likely
> section that gets plugged?

I haven't seen reports of brake hoses plugging with debris.

Brake pistons do freeze in their cylinders, though. I completely disassembled my
front brakes this past summer. As you can imagine, it doesn't take but a little
rust buildup on the piston/cylinder walls to impede operation.

Rust comes from moisture getting into the brake fluid. Brake fluid does have a
chemical tendency to absorb moisture, so a little rust shouldn't be a surprise.

> I've checked Majestic and SL Honda online,
> and can't find a front caliper assembly in the parts list. I'm in the
> right section, but no caliper listed, and the ominous "some of the parts
> displayed may no longer be available" note on the diagram. I can't find
> the hoses at all. HELP! Any problem getting these parts through my local
> auto-parts place?

I double checked you at Majestic (94 Civic EX manual tranny) and see what you
mean.

Yet they have the caliper listed for my 91 Civic. It's also listed for the 93
Civic EX.

I'd email Majestic. I bet they have a full caliper. Better, they do sell
remanufactured calipers. Still better, have you ever worked with local salvage
yards? I priced remanufactured calipers at these where I live and even went to
look at them. They look a lot better than mine (externally). The price was far
less than Majestic's new calipers and IIRC their reman'd calipers, too.

Autozone and/or Pep Boys I believe sells reman'd calipers, too.

I'm not sure what the consensus is here at the group re Autozone et al. reman'd
calipers, though. I think some folks have concerns about non-OEM rubber. Isn't
as tough, in short, but I dunno how true this is.

> An item of note: the piston doesn't screw in on the front. Don't know
> about the back, but I can just use a C-clamp on the front. BTW, I picked
> up Bendix "OEM" pads before I thought to check if the caliper was
> stuck--these OK?

My own experience: My 91 Civic is on its third set of pads. Both the second and
third set of pads were non-OEM. I think the second set was intermediate in
price. The third set is Raybestos, top of the line for my car. I checked for
rotor wear a few months ago, and nothing seems out of the ordinary. At the
current rate, if thickness is the only consideration, they should easily last
another 159k miles.

I'm pretty sure next time I need new pads I will go OEM, though. First, because
they are about the same price as the top of the line Raybestos I bought. Two,
because I am a bit concerned that the Raybestos pads are harder. So they last
longer, but may be wearing the rotor more. Even though I don't have any signs of
abnormal wear.

I do have some scoring on one of the rotors, but the brakes work fine. I'll
monitor it everytime I rotate my tires, but otherwise I lose no sleep over it.

I have a manual transmission and almost always downshift, using the engine to
brake, though, so brake problems will be less obvious unless I go looking for
them.

I'm sure others will comment about pads here, so keep checking back, as always.
Or you can google. It comes up a lot.

Blast! I just wrote a whole message but Thunderbird ate it. First time
that's happened. Will try to reconstruct

TeGGer® wrote:
> On the back you have drums.

Actually, discs. Civic EX with ABS.

> Those AREN'T "OEM". They are aftermarket "OEM style". Roll of the dice here
> for you.

Just finished reading your FAQ--fabulous. Thanks for taking the time and
care to put that together.

You mention "too many problems" with aftermarket pads. Such as? I don't
care one way or the other, the Bendix cost about the same as OEM. (BTW,
I know they aren't actually OEM, that's why I stuck it in quotes.) On
nice thing was that the shim was made out of aluminum--no rust issue
there, though I do wonder if there could be a disintegration issue. They
do come with a "lifetime" warranty, whatever that means fo brake pads,
so I guess the aluminum shims work out fine.

I'm particularly intrigued by the pins question. It seems to me from my
recollection that the lower pin was frozen, but I didn't fully
appreciate the problem until seeing your FAQ. The upper was fine, nice
and greasy and smooth, and I didn't see any rust.

Given that a reman caliper, which I just found after calling Majestic,
is only $72 (well, a bit more after shipping back the old one to recover
the whopping $140 core deposit), it doesn't make sense for me to rebuild
it if the piston is in fact seized. I didn't have a C-clamp handy
because I had thought there were screw-type pistons all around. As I've
said, I'm new to this level of auto work.

Thanks again for the great brake FAQ.

Blast! I just wrote a whole message but Thunderbird ate it. First time
that's happened. Will try to reconstruct

TeGGer® wrote:
> On the back you have drums.

Actually, discs. Civic EX with ABS.

> Those AREN'T "OEM". They are aftermarket "OEM style". Roll of the dice here
> for you.

Just finished reading your FAQ--fabulous. Thanks for taking the time and
care to put that together.

You mention "too many problems" with aftermarket pads. Such as? I don't
care one way or the other, the Bendix cost about the same as OEM. (BTW,
I know they aren't actually OEM, that's why I stuck it in quotes.) On
nice thing was that the shim was made out of aluminum--no rust issue
there, though I do wonder if there could be a disintegration issue. They
do come with a "lifetime" warranty, whatever that means fo brake pads,
so I guess the aluminum shims work out fine.

I'm particularly intrigued by the pins question. It seems to me from my
recollection that the lower pin was frozen, but I didn't fully
appreciate the problem until seeing your FAQ. The upper was fine, nice
and greasy and smooth, and I didn't see any rust.

Given that a reman caliper, which I just found after calling Majestic,
is only $72 (well, a bit more after shipping back the old one to recover
the whopping $140 core deposit), it doesn't make sense for me to rebuild
it if the piston is in fact seized. I didn't have a C-clamp handy
because I had thought there were screw-type pistons all around. As I've
said, I'm new to this level of auto work.

Thanks again for the great brake FAQ.

Caroline wrote:
> I haven't seen reports of brake hoses plugging with debris.

That's good. It happened on my old Pontiac, hence the question.

> I'd email Majestic. I bet they have a full caliper. Better, they do sell
> remanufactured calipers. Still better, have you ever worked with local salvage
> yards?

Yeah, I called them earlier and they pointed me to their reman section,
found 'em there.

> I'm pretty sure next time I need new pads I will go OEM, though. First, because
> they are about the same price as the top of the line Raybestos I bought. Two,
> because I am a bit concerned that the Raybestos pads are harder. So they last
> longer, but may be wearing the rotor more. Even though I don't have any signs of
> abnormal wear.

Maybe I'll give the Bendix pads a shot, and keep an eye on them. They
are the "ImportQuiet" line, which makes me think they'll be softer, and
I'll just get an idea of how long they last. I'll google around, too.

> I have a manual transmission and almost always downshift, using the engine to
> brake, though, so brake problems will be less obvious unless I go looking for
> them.

Same here.

Caroline wrote:
> I haven't seen reports of brake hoses plugging with debris.

That's good. It happened on my old Pontiac, hence the question.

> I'd email Majestic. I bet they have a full caliper. Better, they do sell
> remanufactured calipers. Still better, have you ever worked with local salvage
> yards?

Yeah, I called them earlier and they pointed me to their reman section,
found 'em there.

> I'm pretty sure next time I need new pads I will go OEM, though. First, because
> they are about the same price as the top of the line Raybestos I bought. Two,
> because I am a bit concerned that the Raybestos pads are harder. So they last
> longer, but may be wearing the rotor more. Even though I don't have any signs of
> abnormal wear.

Maybe I'll give the Bendix pads a shot, and keep an eye on them. They
are the "ImportQuiet" line, which makes me think they'll be softer, and
I'll just get an idea of how long they last. I'll google around, too.

> I have a manual transmission and almost always downshift, using the engine to
> brake, though, so brake problems will be less obvious unless I go looking for
> them.

Same here.

Caroline wrote:
> I haven't seen reports of brake hoses plugging with debris.

sometimes they just collapse on the inside. the outside might have a
plastic coating so you dont know. pretty rare, though.
>
> I have a manual transmission and almost always downshift, using the engine to
> brake, though, so brake problems will be less obvious unless I go looking for
> them.

different strokes

id rather replace 5 sets of front brake pads than 1 clutch. FWIW,
sometimes i "blip" the throttle and slip it into neutral and coast to a
stop. and if i wanna mess with someone who i think might be a bit too
close, ill use the parking brake