Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

On Mar 6, 3:28*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * Ed Pirrero > writes:
>
> >> The difference, which seems to confuse the r.a.d. boys, is that
> >> cyclist stupidity only rarely damages anyone else's person or
> >> vehicle. *Motorist stupidity kills over 100 people per day in the US,
> >> and keeps over 200,000 auto body repairmen employed full-time, fixing
> >> the cars that aren't totaled.
> > Don't pretend the consequences are equal.
>
> ??

I didn't write that. Frank wrote that.

E.P.

N8N wrote:
> On Mar 5, 6:38 am, Stephen Harding > wrote:

>>Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
>>do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
>>the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
>>automotive engineers claim.
>
> That squares with what I've heard as well; apparently the air in the
> bed is "dead air" anyway so whether you have a tonneau or not makes
> little difference. The tailgate apparently gives something of a Kamm
> effect so it is actually beneficial.
>
> I have a camper shell on my pickup so that I can carry car parts,
> machine tools, etc. without worry about weather or sticky fingers, so
> the decision has already been made for me in my case.

I put caps on my trucks. At one time I thought it helped
with fuel economy, but I've now read it probably doesn't
do much of anything.

Except for a cap specifically designed by the University of
??? engineering class to maximize fuel efficiency via minimal
drag.

Unfortunately, the cap sloped down towards the rear bumper
leading to a late 40's Hudson kind of look.

And of course, having a small opening in the back makes it
rather awkward actually using the bed to carry anything.

But as an engineering exercise, I guess it was a success.


SMH

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But in any case, you have admitted to *slowing down* in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the process of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing a truck because a following driver offended you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow. That ought to be illegal... oh wait, it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It ought to be illegal to use a vehicle in such an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offensive and aggressive manner.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I agree, deliberately blocking traffic is offensive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and aggressive. Your driver's license, please?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (seriously. start driving like a reasonable person or stay
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the **** off the road. There's enough assholes on the road
>>>>>>>>>>>>> already.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So are you one of those people who weaves back and forth
>>>>>>>>>>>> through traffic thinking everyone should get the hell out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> their way? That is who you are defending here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, I'm one of those people who simply expects others to
>>>>>>>>>>> follow the rules of the road. I'm actually one of the slower
>>>>>>>>>>> drivers in my area, not that it really matters. People are
>>>>>>>>>>> going to drive at speeds different from one another; that's a
>>>>>>>>>>> fact of life and you can't do anything about it. What you
>>>>>>>>>>> *can* do is be courteous and accomodating, so everyone gets
>>>>>>>>>>> where they're going with a minimum of hassle and frustration.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, I am referring to driver's whose expectation is that
>>>>>>>>>> everyone else get the hell out of their way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's a reasonable expectation, if they are driving faster
>>>>>>>>> than the main flow and traffic isn't jammed up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And how often does that apply to the right lane of an urban
>>>>>>>> interstate? Should people get out of the right (i.e. slow) lane
>>>>>>>> to let faster traffic by? Should not the faster traffic be
>>>>>>>> passing on the left?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> These people are invariably driving vehicles that cost 2 to 3
>>>>>>>>>> times the mean vehicle price.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Envy much?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, people of a certain class believe that they have special
>>>>>>>> privileges that lower classes do not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not up to you to make a judgement call as to the
>>>>>>>>>>> reasonableness of another vehicle operator's speed. If you
>>>>>>>>>>> misjudge and inadvertantly hold someone up for a few seconds
>>>>>>>>>>> while passing, that's an honest mistake.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> If it is a honest mistake, does that allow for the driver
>>>>>>>>>> being delayed one or two seconds the right to act like an
>>>>>>>>>> asshole?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If it's only one or two seconds, they probably won't act like
>>>>>>>>> an asshole. If it's "as long as possible," well, people are
>>>>>>>>> human.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My experience is that they act like jerks if they have to slow
>>>>>>>> down say 5 mph for one of two seconds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But if you deliberately hold them up, that's
>>>>>>>>>>> "passive-aggressive driving" in my book and just as
>>>>>>>>>>> unacceptable as tailgating, cutting someone off, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When someone else acts like an asshole first without
>>>>>>>>>> provocation, should one give in and let the MFFY *******s win?
>>>>>>>>>> In the passing the semi-truck situation, if the third driver
>>>>>>>>>> stays back a couple of vehicle lengths, I will speed up and
>>>>>>>>>> return to the right lane as soon as possible. If they try to
>>>>>>>>>> intimidate me off the road, to hell with them. They can sit
>>>>>>>>>> and stew.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you're as much of an asshole as anyone else on the road.
>>>>>>>>> Got it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And you are one of the people that acts like a jerk? Got it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think this is where the thread denigrates to IKYABWAI, isn't it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Except in this instance, I *am* a courteous driver and you *are*
>>>>>>> the asshole.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Opinion stated as fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it may be my *opinion* that I am a courteous driver, but you
>>>>> have yet to accuse me of one discourteous behaviour that I actually
>>>>> exhibit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> No, according to your postings you think everyone should get the
>>>> hell our of YOUR road.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, I said slower traffic should yield to faster traffic. I am
>>> usually "slower traffic." Where in the world did you get the idea
>>> this was all about me? We're talking basic courtesy and first day
>>> behind the wheel Driver's Ed stuff, here.
>>>
>> It is not practical to yield to faster traffic when the passing of the
>> truck has already started, and someone suddenly cuts over from the
>> right lane and speeds way up just to tailgate.
>
> Where did all that come from? I'm simply talking about passing in an
> expedient manner. You shouldn't take more than 10 seconds to pass ANY
> vehicle. If it's going to take you longer than that, you should just
> stay behind the slower driver because you're not going faster enough
> (yes, I know that's grammatically awkward) to make it worth anyone's
> while for you to pass.
>
I have had people do exactly that - whip over from the right lane
through the center to the left (without signaling, of course), and then
close up to 5 feet or less with the high beams on. The message they are
sending is obvious "get the **** out of my road". Equally obvious is
that these people have no respect for right-of-way; their minds are
fixed on "ME ME ME!".


>>
>>>>> You however have admitted to being an asshole on the road.
>>>>>
>>>> When did not giving into a bully turn into assholic behavior?
>>>
>>>
>>> Slowing down to "let someone stew" is definitely assaholic.
>>> Especially when you can't possibly know what he's thinking; he may
>>> have no ill intent toward you at all, just crept up a little closer
>>> than you'd like.
>>>
>> Proper following distance is basic. Following a 5 feet or less with
>> high beams on is not just creeping up a little.
>
> If you're regularly experiencing that, you're doing it wrong. I don't
> ever get that, and I live in DC-land, AKA asshole driver capital of the
> USA.
>
I had a jerk do that just a couple of hours ago on a two lane street,
where my speed was limited by vehicles in front of me. I hope he acts
like that outside the car some day and gets his facial features
rearranged for his troubles.

>>>>> One would think that someone (presumably) posting from a biking
>>>>> group would be a little more concerned about road safety and
>>>>> driving correctly, but I guess not.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, someone zig-zagging through traffic at speeds significantly
>>>> higher then the general flow, cutting people off, and aggressively
>>>> tailgating is being a safe driver?
>>>
>>>
>>> Where did I advocate any of that? Please post cites.
>>>
>> Those are the people who are usually found to aggressively tailgate
>> someone who is passing a truck at a reasonable speed differential, or
>> is being slowed by another vehicle ahead in the passing lane.
>
> So I didn't say that. Thanks.
>
>>>> And you are upset that someone does not speed up to an unsafe speed
>>>> to avoid delaying someone who behaves this way a second or two?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am upset that you admit to slowing down to apparently teach other
>>> drivers a lesson. Grow the **** up already.
>>>
>> However, you believe that aggressive tailgating with the high beams on
>> is just fine to teach someone a lesson.
>
> Cite?
>
Apparent by implication - please clarify if you meant something else.

>> Grow up already.
>
> Stop using troll logic.
>
Yes, indeed, please do so.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Ed Pirrero wrote:
> On Mar 3, 6:51 pm, Tom Sherman >
> wrote:
>> Brent P? wrote:
>>> In article >, wrote:
>>>> On Mar 2, 11:12 pm, (Brent P)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article >, wrote:
>>>>>> On Mar 1, 9:09 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
>>>>>>> In article >, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>>> I don't know where trucks actually go 55mph...
>>>>>> Up hills.
>>>>>> (Sheesh.)
>>>>> Not any of the hills around here.
>>>> :-) Well THAT clears things up! The hills in Chicago don't slow
>>>> trucks, therefore there are no hills anywhere that slow trucks!
>>> Holy jump battman. I never said any such thing, but you know that.
>>>> I don't know why the highway departments around here wasted all the
>>>> money on those "7% grade" signs! They should have checked with racer-
>>>> boy!
>>> I dunno. The times I've driven through the hills and mountains on the way
>>> to and from NC and WV I don't recall the trucks dropping to 55mph...
>>> maybe my memory is off, that could be, but I think they kept it above
>>> 55mph for the most part. They certainly do through the hills of WI. Now
>>> they do slow, but 55mph seems to be a floor speed. I suppose there are
>>> some mountain roads out there where they slow to 45mph or something but
>>> that is still the limit of their vehicles, I have rarely seen truckers
>>> restrict themselves to 55mph.
>> In Colorado on I-70, I have passed trucks that were doing 15-20 mph
>> uphill. (I was doing about 40-45 mph, full throttle in 3rd gear, in a
>> Rabbit (Golf I).
>
> Brent lives in the flatlands and has no idea what mountains are like.
>
> Out here in the west, 18-wheelers often climb mt. passes at half the
> SL or less. Mostly, they are nice about restricting themselves to the
> right lane only.
>
> Sometimes, they are jerks and micropass at 25 mph in the right lane,
> and 27 mph in the left lane.
> [...]

And sometimes one truck drives on the shoulder to let a slightly faster
truck go by in the right lane.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

N8N aka Nate Nagel wrote:
> On Mar 5, 9:52 am, " > wrote:
>
>> In the suburbs you get the yuppies who consider you a lower life form
>
> Heh. I love yuppies, I really do.
>
Baked, boiled, grilled, deep fried...its all good.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Stephen Harding wrote:
> wrote:
>> On Mar 4, 1:04 pm, Stephen Harding > wrote:
>>>
>>> I can only dream of a 5 mpg advantage!
>>>
>>
>> Drive 45 with your tailgate down.
>
> Hey what's the r.a.d. position on tailgates down?
>
> Don't do it! It doesn't help and may hurt mpg.
>
> Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
> do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
> the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
> automotive engineers claim.
>
However, with the tailgate down, no one sees the "How's My Driving"
sticker.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

N8N aka Nate Nagel wrote:
> On Mar 5, 6:38 am, Stephen Harding > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Mar 4, 1:04 pm, Stephen Harding > wrote:
>>>> I can only dream of a 5 mpg advantage!
>>> Drive 45 with your tailgate down.
>> Hey what's the r.a.d. position on tailgates down?
>>
>> Don't do it! It doesn't help and may hurt mpg.
>>
>> Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
>> do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
>> the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
>> automotive engineers claim.
>>
>> SMH
>
> That squares with what I've heard as well; apparently the air in the
> bed is "dead air" anyway so whether you have a tonneau or not makes
> little difference. The tailgate apparently gives something of a Kamm
> effect so it is actually beneficial.
>
> I have a camper shell on my pickup so that I can carry car parts,
> machine tools, etc. without worry about weather or sticky fingers, so
> the decision has already been made for me in my case.
>
The best part of topper is that you do not have to worry about your crap
flying out and hitting someone.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

wrote:
> On Mar 3, 10:24 pm, Tom Sherman >
> wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> I commute a minimum of 62 miles per day. Most of it is highway. I
>>> don't exceed the posted limit by more than 5-7mph, and am usually 3-5
>>> over. I often flash-to-pass. It means "please don't block this lane,
>>> I intend to overtake you". People, however, interpret it as "Get the
>>> hell out of my way", which is a mistake on their part. It's not
>>> uncommon for someone I flash-to-pass to slam on the brakes and come
>>> down to 20MPH under the limit in response to my polite double flash,
>>> i.e. flash to pass. This can be problematic when I'm driving a pickup
>>> truck with rear drum brakes and the car in front of me has 4 wheel
>>> disks, ABS, and low-profile shoes that give great highway traction. I
>>> am always at a safe distance when I flash, and yet I've had to
>>> negotiate out of the highway and onto the shoulder on one occasion
>>> fairly recently because my truck is simply no match for a new A4 in a
>>> 65-0MPH deceleration race. So back to the analogy, I said "please let
>>> me by" and the thug said "What? F*** you! You want a f***ing
>>> problem? This is MY sidewalk. I ain't excusing sh**!!!
>>> Unfortunately we were not on a sidewalk and I didn't have a chance to
>>> exchange views face to face with that particular thug.
>> If you can not stop when they do, you are not following at a safe
>> distance. What if they were braking hard for a legitimate reason, e.g.
>> part of a load falling off a truck, deer running into the road, another
>> slower vehicle cutting them off?
>
> In traffic it is impossible to leave enough distance for a drum-brake
> pickup to stop in the same distance as a high-performance sports car.
> If that large of a gap is left, it will be filled. If I manage to
> avoid the collision the following distance was sufficient. When we're
> coming down from 70ish to zero at absolute pedal-to-the-floor
> deceleration there is going to be a variable in stopping distances.
> Part of calculating the following distance in traffic is taking into
> consideration the generous shoulder. I watch far ahead into traffic.
> I've NEVER had any issue with stopping in time, regardless of my
> vehicle, with the rare exception of some a-hole in a high-performance
> car doing a 70-0 check in the middle of the passing lane for no reason
> but to try to attempt to cause a collision.
>
A while back I was being followed by a Dodge Ram at a distance of less
than 50 feet. I was driving about 45 mph in the left lane, when someone
cut in front of me from the middle lane, which was going about 25 mph
(the right lane was practically stopped). Fortunately, I was aware of
the Ram behind me and the left shoulder was open, so I cut over as far
as possible. The Ram went past me with its brakes locked and almost hit
the car that cut me off. Needless to say, I was not amused at this idiot
almost taking me out.

I have been rear ended three times in the last two years on urban
freeways when I was able to stop in an unstable traffic flow, but the
vehicle behind me could not. Now I ride the brakes more than necessary,
speed and slow down, and whatever else it takes to get people to back
the hell off.

>> When I drive a one-ton pickup with a loaded trailer, or a 10 ton
> medium
>> duty truck, I leave a LOT more following space than I do when driving my
>> car, and I drive a lot slower in traffic.
>
> And when I drive a one-ton box truck, tow a trailer, or even drive my
> compact truck in traffic I do the same. That's not what we're talking
> about, we're talking about an a-hole with a high-performance sedan
> attempting to cause a collision on purpose. I avoided the collision,
> I did my part.
>
Get a bigger truck with a big jack, winch and PTO on the front, and they
will NOT try that.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article >, Tom Sherman wrote:

> A while back I was being followed by a Dodge Ram at a distance of less
> than 50 feet.

That's considered a large following distance around here... I'm lucky if
they are far enough back that I can see their tires in the mirror.

> I was driving about 45 mph in the left lane, when someone
> cut in front of me from the middle lane, which was going about 25 mph
> (the right lane was practically stopped). Fortunately, I was aware of
> the Ram behind me and the left shoulder was open, so I cut over as far
> as possible. The Ram went past me with its brakes locked and almost hit
> the car that cut me off. Needless to say, I was not amused at this idiot
> almost taking me out.

I was on a mini expressway a few months ago... light traffic.... as I
start to pass the LLB to my left he speeds up... fine whatever I wasn't
moving left anyway. Pickup moves from behind the LLB to behind me...
tailgating... over a rise a slow moving SUV in the right lane. Lots of
time for me to slow LOTS of time for me.... asshole however nearly hits
me flashing his brights and sounding the horn as I slow gently to avoid
hitting the SUV and giving this moron as much space to slow down as
possible. There are no shoulders on this road. Just as the
LLB passes by pickup boy swerves into the left lane and passes... WTF is
wrong with these people?

On Mar 6, 7:58*pm, Tom Sherman >
wrote:
> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Mar 3, 6:51 pm, Tom Sherman >
> > wrote:
> >> Brent P? wrote:
> >>> In article >, wrote:
> >>>> On Mar 2, 11:12 pm, (Brent P)
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> In article >, wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mar 1, 9:09 pm, (Brent P) wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article >, Tom Sherman wrote:
> >>>>>>> I don't know where trucks actually go 55mph...
> >>>>>> Up hills.
> >>>>>> (Sheesh.)
> >>>>> Not any of the hills around here.
> >>>> :-) *Well THAT clears things up! *The hills in Chicago don't slow
> >>>> trucks, therefore there are no hills anywhere that slow trucks!
> >>> Holy jump battman. I never said any such thing, but you know that.
> >>>> I don't know why the highway departments around here wasted all the
> >>>> money on those "7% grade" signs! *They should have checked with racer-
> >>>> boy!
> >>> I dunno. The times I've driven through the hills and mountains on the way
> >>> to and from NC and WV I don't recall the trucks dropping to 55mph...
> >>> maybe my memory is off, that could be, but I think they kept it above
> >>> 55mph for the most part. They certainly do through the hills of WI. Now
> >>> they do slow, but 55mph seems to be a floor speed. I suppose there are
> >>> some mountain roads out there where they slow to 45mph or something but
> >>> that is still the limit of their vehicles, I have rarely seen truckers
> >>> restrict themselves to 55mph.
> >> In Colorado on I-70, I have passed trucks that were doing 15-20 mph
> >> uphill. (I was doing about 40-45 mph, full throttle in 3rd gear, in a
> >> Rabbit (Golf I).
>
> > Brent lives in the flatlands and has no idea what mountains are like.
>
> > Out here in the west, 18-wheelers often climb mt. passes at half the
> > SL or less. *Mostly, they are nice about restricting themselves to the
> > right lane only.
>
> > Sometimes, they are jerks and micropass at 25 mph in the right lane,
> > and 27 mph in the left lane.
> > [...]
>
> And sometimes one truck drives on the shoulder to let a slightly faster
> truck go by in the right lane.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful- Hide quoted text -

I've seen that ONCE. A lot fewer times than the micropassing I
described before.

E.P.