Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

I was taught this once, but like other stuff we don't use, you forget it go
in a general since, it works like this:

In the GM throttle body, it has 3 electronic signals to compare to, one
being a mirror of itself. If it looses two of them then there may be an
issue (I believe) If you were to have an catastrophic failure, the car goes
to limp home mode and gives you a crawl speed.



"David E. Powell" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi there.
>
> I have been looking at the new Honda Civic, it's pretty sweet, and the
> welds and everything are as nice as anything I have ever seen. I just
> have a question about the "Drive by wire" system that they are supposed
> to have.
>
> What happens if the Engine dies on you? In my current car, my timing
> chip went once and the engine went out. I had enough steering control
> left, even without power steering, to pull my car over before it came
> to a stop. If the drive by wire system has no "real" or active
> connection, how can it work if the engine or electronics quit on you?
> Are there any backups built into the system in case any of that stuff
> happens? And what if your battery dies and you need to push the car?
> Can you turn the steering wheel to adjust your wheels when you push the
> car?
>
> Much thanks, sorry to bother.
>
> David
>

On 18 Nov 2005 08:31:35 -0800, "David E. Powell"
> wrote:

>Hi there.
>
>I have been looking at the new Honda Civic, it's pretty sweet, and the
>welds and everything are as nice as anything I have ever seen. I just
>have a question about the "Drive by wire" system that they are supposed
>to have.
>
>What happens if the Engine dies on you? In my current car, my timing
>chip went once and the engine went out. I had enough steering control
>left, even without power steering, to pull my car over before it came
>to a stop. If the drive by wire system has no "real" or active
>connection, how can it work if the engine or electronics quit on you?
>Are there any backups built into the system in case any of that stuff
>happens? And what if your battery dies and you need to push the car?
>Can you turn the steering wheel to adjust your wheels when you push the
>car?
>
>Much thanks, sorry to bother.
>
>David

I see that my original reply (with the quote) was incomplete,
and open to different interpretations.
I have no direct knowledge of what Honda has, or has not,
marketed as "Drive-By-Wire." I interpreted that to mean ALL of the
driver's controls. It's true that throttle-by-wire has been around on
some models for a while. Real "Drive-By-Wire" has not yet made its
debut in production. As a matter of fact, that is EXACTLY what many
automotive manufacturers are planning to implement.
The engineering journals are full of information on
development of systems which include STEERING and BRAKES operated only
by means of electronic signals. No mechanical linkage between the
driver's input device and the servos and links that actually move the
machinery. And what disturbs me is that in all the reading I have
done over the last few years, it appears that there are no plans for
backup systems in case of the inevitable failure.
When electronic ignition systems were brand-new to production
vehicles, I worked in an automotive service shop. One of our
customers had her new (few weeks old) car towed in when it died as she
was on her way to work. When we turned the key, it started and ran
without fault. We could find nothing wrong, and she went on her way.
The next morning the same thing happened, within fifty yards of the
same location. The ignition module was replaced on this second round,
and the car never had the same problem again.
Do you want to drive a car steered solely by means of your
input through an electrical joystick? What happens when some
semiconductor device reaches some critical temperature and stops
functioning, as in the example above? Or when moisture causes
corrosion and a bad electrical connection?
Engineers who dream up this crap are mesmerized by the
possibility that they CAN do it. I want them to consider whether they
OUGHT to. The statement about "pointless engineering masturbation" is
still applicable.

Bob Palmer wrote:
>> To categorically reject change because the "current system
>> is good enough" is foolishness and demonstrates
>> obliviousness to the many points in automotive history when
>> of course the old way was "good enough," but the new way
>> yielded some advantage, so it predominated.
>
> I give you the pick-up and the platform frame SUV built on chasis and
> suspensions from 1950 that all the people in the country have flocked to
> dealerships like sheep and plunked billions of dollars on and to which the
> automobile companies have spent next to nothing on in technology.
>
>
and instead of investing that money on a DECENT small car design, they
blow it.

meanwhile, the japanese took the money they made off selling excellent
small cars and trucks, and invested it in making bigger trucks. the
tundra is a really nice truck! course it should be, since the engine
design was based on the lexus LS series.

On 2005-11-19, Flyingmonk > wrote:

> Mercedes' "break by wire" system senses traffic ahead of you and
> applies the breaks for you to maintain distance from car in front of
> you. It controls spcae in front of you in flowing traffic, as in long
> highway hauls.

cite, please.

nb

Yo. Before you get too worried, have you ever looked at a steering lock
mechanism? What happens if a small fault occurs in your lock barrel and
you become unable to steer? In my car it actually has failed in the
locked position (not while driving) so I've removed the lock bolt.

It's not hard to make an electrical system reliable. It just happens
that most of the time we don't need high reliability so we are can
accept occasional fuses blowing or motors burning out when it reduces
costs.

By the way, one proposed steer-by-wire system gives the driver complete
control, but also provides force feedback to help less skillful or
innatentive drivers. If you really want to turn somewhere you simply
need to apply more force to overcome it. Our reactions are pretty good
at doing this. Try turning off the engine while going down a steep
winding road. You'll find that you automatically apply more brake
pressure and more steering force when it's needed.

What's the benefit? How many people are killed or injured by contact
with the steering wheel in an accident? Wouldn't it be nice to have a
collapsable steering wheel? How many accidents occur because of driver
error causing them to drift out of their lane, trying to take corners
too fast, etc? Road injuries are a big problem, clearly our current
cars are not safe enough!

Or maybe it's just more cool than doing the same boring thing that's
been done for a hundred years!!

On 2005-11-18, C. E. White > wrote:

> On the other hand, I do own two farm tractors that have drive by hydraulic
> systems. They have no mechanical link between the steering wheel and the
> front wheels. It is all handled by hydraulics. I had a line blow once and
> had to steer off the road with the brakes.....

I'm getting a real kick out of reading all the wire=boo!,
mechanical=yeah! luddite comments. Must be a buncha young
whippersnappers with no history under their belt. Two cases in point.
One, blown hydraulic hose on a '67 Ford Mustang. Fortunately, I got
it to the side of the freeway before the fluid was completely drained.
Second, '72 Dodge van, borderline stripped spines of universal joint
(mechanical) to hydro steering gearbox finally reaches yield point and
suddenly way to much slippage of rotating steering wheel yields
little/no corresponding front wheel response. IOW, I'm coming hard
hard a'stabard, but the front wheels are not!! Both incidences were
not "catastrophic" but I can assure you they were too damn close for
my tastes and I was damn lucky to not suffer a "world o' hurts"!

Bottom line: **** happens

nb

On 2005-11-18, Don Bruder > wrote:

> The F-16 - Proof that even a brick will fly if you can cram a big enough
> engine into it...

Tell it to a bumblebee.

nb

On 2005-11-18, Elmo P. Shagnasty > wrote:

> Which is why boats still have points.

Where do you people come up with this crap!? Twenty-five years ago,
me and my buddies spent 5 hours stranded in the middle of a huge lake
because the electronic ignition on the state-of-the-art motor took a
digital dump.

nb

On 2005-11-18, Pete C. > wrote:


> the term drive-by-wire to electronic throttle control which has been
> around in the heavy diesel world but not hyped as "drive-by-wire"
> confuses people.

It's old news in cars, too. I recall being completely amazed upon
reading the Helm manual for my girlfriend's 2 yr old '87 Cad De Ville
and learning I could access and read and manually manipulate all the
car's control voltages from the environmental control display. And
sure enough, the throttle valve opening was a 0-10 volt range from all
the way closed to all the way open. My first look at the wide world
of car computers! Quite the revelation for me at the time.

nb

> On 2005-11-19, Flyingmonk > wrote:
> > Mercedes' "break by wire" system senses traffic ahead of you and
> > applies the breaks for you to maintain distance from car in front of
> > you. It controls spcae in front of you in flowing traffic, as in long
> > highway hauls.

notbob wrote:
> cite, please.

Actually, that is not Mercedes' "brake by wire" system. "Brake by wire"
is just how I described, it uses the gas pedal as an electronic input
to adjust the brakes. (Since this is very new technology, Mercedes
still has a hydraulic backup).

However, the system described by Flyingmonk does exist. It's called
"adaptive cruise control". I believe Mercedes was the first to use it
in production cars a couple of years ago. But now everyone is offering
as an option on high-end luxury cars.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/research/.../clkclass.html
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/gener...a020202a_3.htm