Realistic racing and bumper cars?

Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you
will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing
while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with
respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with
the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the
problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could
do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of
the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not
having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone
who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill.
I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in
online racing?

By the way, FWIW.
In spite of SecuROM, I totally enjoy exotic racetracks in Simbin's
games. I wonder why anyone would want to race around an oval track
for four hours. Maybe the main excitement in that is interaction
with other cars.

> the fun of being indestructible.

The alternative is collision off racing, cars can go through each
other. Collision off was the norm for some racing games.

> In spite of SecuROM, I totally enjoy exotic racetracks in Simbin's
> games. I wonder why anyone would want to race around an oval track
> for four hours.

For the money. Worse yet are the 12 hour and 24 hour endurance races.

Regarding racing ovals online in games, especially open servers on NR2003,
it's the fact that just about anyone can win, in spite of their racing
skills.

In article >,
lid says...
>
> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you
> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing
> while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with
> respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined with
> the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve the
> problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You could
> do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin them out of
> the way. Faster drivers will still always make up time when not
> having to pass other cars. Of course it would advantage someone
> who's good at bumping around in traffic, but that too is a skill.
> I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any groups practice that in
> online racing?
>

Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the netcode
is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to bump another so
precisely as to spin them out and allow you to keep going. Haven't done
any online stuff in the last couple of years now so things have probably
improved, but normally any kind of coming together would result in both
cars careering off into the nearest piece of scenery.

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

Peter > wrote:

> lid says...
>>
>> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you
>> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing
>> while racing? Personally, I like the idea of total realism with
>> respect to the interaction of wheels on the pavement combined
>> with the fun of being indestructible. Wouldn't that help solve
>> the problem of inexperienced drivers who don't let you pass? You
>> could do like the police during a real-life car chase and spin
>> them out of the way. Faster drivers will still always make up
>> time when not having to pass other cars. Of course it would
>> advantage someone who's good at bumping around in traffic, but
>> that too is a skill. I'm sure it's not a novel idea, but do any
>> groups practice that in online racing?

> Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the
> netcode is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to
> bump another so precisely as to spin them out and allow you to
> keep going. Haven't done any online stuff in the last couple of
> years now so things have probably improved, but normally any kind
> of coming together would result in both cars careering off into
> the nearest piece of scenery.

It works in GTR. It works in Need for Speed too. Obviously it's not
rocket science.


--
The first big front wheel rollerblades.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/
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> I like the idea of total realism with respect to the interaction
> of wheels on the pavement combined with the fun of being indestructible.

This is how Toca Race Driver 3 works. Turns out that your fastest
lap times occur when you use opponent cars as brake and cornering assists.
The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram the opponent car from
behind, sending that car off track, and slowing your car enough to make
the turn. During corner exit, if someone ahead isn't on the inside line, you
can dive inside going too fast timing it so your car slides into the
opponent car, bumping the opponent car off track, and keeping you on
track.

Because of tactics like this, many in RD3 choose to run with collision off.
In the older need for speed games (High Stakes and Porsche Unleashed), the
vast majority of races were done collsion off (drafting should be disabled
with collision off).

"jeffareid" > wrote:

>> I like the idea of total realism with respect to the interaction
>> of wheels on the pavement combined with the fun of being
>> indestructible.
>
> This is how Toca Race Driver 3 works. Turns out that your fastest
> lap times occur when you use opponent cars as brake and cornering
> assists. The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram the
> opponent car from behind, sending that car off track, and slowing
> your car enough to make the turn. During corner exit, if someone
> ahead isn't on the inside line, you can dive inside going too fast
> timing it so your car slides into the opponent car, bumping the
> opponent car off track, and keeping you on track.

That stuff is easier said than done against intelligent,
experienced, and skillful drivers.



--
The first big front wheel rollerblades.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/
Google Groups is destroying the USENET archive.

John Doe wrote:
> Peter > wrote:
>
>> lid says...
>>> Unless you are planning on becoming a race driver, for which you
>>> will need a lot more than a simulator, why worry about crashing
>>> while racing?
....
>> Not sure you're going to get many advocates here. Besides, the
>> netcode is going to have to be pretty damn good to allow you to
>> bump another so precisely as to spin them out and allow you to
>> keep going.
....
> It works in GTR. It works in Need for Speed too. Obviously it's not
> rocket science.

What I used in Racer turned out to be the simplest method; swap
velocities on contact. Just that. Unfortunately it doesn't handle
rotational changes (impulses) correctly but generally both cars are
going in the same direction more or less, so it looked quite convincing.
Also over networking.

Ruud

>> This is how Toca Race Driver 3 works. Turns out that your fastest
>> lap times occur when you use opponent cars as brake and cornering
>> assists. The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram the
>> opponent car from behind, sending that car off track, and slowing
>> your car enough to make the turn. During corner exit, if someone
>> ahead isn't on the inside line, you can dive inside going too fast
>> timing it so your car slides into the opponent car, bumping the
>> opponent car off track, and keeping you on track.
>
> That stuff is easier said than done against intelligent,
> experienced, and skillful drivers.

Not when thse skillful drivers brake for corner entry, and the driver
behind choose to ram them. It's difficult to swerve to avoid a
rammer while under braking because lateral forces are limited. Some
method of placing blame on what driver was responsible for contact
would be needed to stop this.

"jeffareid" > wrote:

>>> The normal strategy is to brake too late, ram
>>> the opponent car from behind, sending that car off track, and
>>> slowing your car enough to make the turn. During corner exit, if
>>> someone ahead isn't on the inside line, you can dive inside
>>> going too fast timing it so your car slides into the opponent
>>> car, bumping the opponent car off track, and keeping you on
>>> track.
>>
>> That stuff is easier said than done against intelligent,
>> experienced, and skillful drivers.
>
> Not when thse skillful drivers brake for corner entry, and the
> driver behind choose to ram them. It's difficult to swerve to
> avoid a rammer while under braking because lateral forces are
> limited. Some method of placing blame on what driver was
> responsible for contact would be needed to stop this.

I disagree. Maybe we can get together and you can prove how easy it
is.



--
The first big front wheel rollerblades.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/
Google Groups is destroying the USENET archive.

>> Not when thse skillful drivers brake for corner entry, and the
>> driver behind choose to ram them.

> I disagree. Maybe we can get together and you can prove how easy it
> is.

Make this simpler, take two equally skilled drivers and allow only
one of them to ram the other from behind during corner braking, (with
a no damage, no fault situation), who wins?

Turn off collision and drafting, it may not be realistic, but it
eliminated any wrecker issues.