How long left is this 3.0 Mitsubishi?

I wonder how long my engine will last now. As I posted before, the
dealer made it seem like a few weeks and refused to do a coolant
change. That was embarrasing but at least the dealer did not soak me
for the annual state inspection. As one poster suggested, probably to
avoid being sued since anything that went wrong with the engine could
be his fault then.

So the vehicle has been going for two months now, another few thousand
miles. It's using a gallon or two of coolant per month. Have been told
the water pump is leaking and there are some seals probably blown but
not sure what is what unless the engine were torn down.

3.0 V6 Mitsubishi in 1994 Voyager. The vehicle obtained 25 mpg at the
last check which is quite surprising given its age, 205,000 miles.

I suspect the engine is quite tight, no oil burning. I feed bad that if
the seals blow completely, then the engine will be trashed. And the
engine is in quite good shape given its age and its reputation as an
oil burner in general.

One mechanic suggested that the main bearings are not being
contaminated because if they were, the engine would be toast. He
thought that this engine did not have any anti-corrosion protection on
the main bearings so could not take any coolant contaminant. He looked
at the PCV valve and valve cover and suspects that the main head
gasket? might not be blown since the white of coolant contamination was
not as bad as it could be.

Any thoughts? Aside from selling the vehicle quickly and getting out of
"Dodge" - pun intended. But that seemed a bit unethical although the
car is lasting longer than the dealer suggested or warned so maybe it
has another 10,000 miles left?

I went back to using green coolant, somewhat difficult to find. I will
also be using ordinary oil for the next oil change instead of the
semi-synthetic. My best guess is that the lack of a coolant change
damaged the seals inside the engine, even considering its age. Is that
possible? The coolant had the right pH but its anti-corrosion
properties were gone.

wrote:
> I wonder how long my engine will last now. As I posted before, the
> dealer made it seem like a few weeks and refused to do a coolant
> change. That was embarrasing but at least the dealer did not soak me
> for the annual state inspection. As one poster suggested, probably to
> avoid being sued since anything that went wrong with the engine could
> be his fault then.


There is simply no telling without pulling the engine and tearing it
down. If you are not a DIYer I would put an ad in the paper and sell it
as a project car or give it away.

Given present shop labor rates and used car prices paying someone else
doesn't make sense.

wrote:
> I wonder how long my engine will last now. As I posted before, the
> dealer made it seem like a few weeks and refused to do a coolant
> change. That was embarrasing but at least the dealer did not soak me
> for the annual state inspection. As one poster suggested, probably to
> avoid being sued since anything that went wrong with the engine could
> be his fault then.
>
> So the vehicle has been going for two months now, another few thousand
> miles. It's using a gallon or two of coolant per month. Have been told
> the water pump is leaking and there are some seals probably blown but
> not sure what is what unless the engine were torn down.
>
> 3.0 V6 Mitsubishi in 1994 Voyager. The vehicle obtained 25 mpg at the
> last check which is quite surprising given its age, 205,000 miles.
>
> I suspect the engine is quite tight, no oil burning. I feed bad that if
> the seals blow completely, then the engine will be trashed. And the
> engine is in quite good shape given its age and its reputation as an
> oil burner in general.
>
> One mechanic suggested that the main bearings are not being
> contaminated because if they were, the engine would be toast. He
> thought that this engine did not have any anti-corrosion protection on
> the main bearings so could not take any coolant contaminant. He looked
> at the PCV valve and valve cover and suspects that the main head
> gasket? might not be blown since the white of coolant contamination was
> not as bad as it could be.
>
> Any thoughts? Aside from selling the vehicle quickly and getting out of
> "Dodge" - pun intended. But that seemed a bit unethical although the
> car is lasting longer than the dealer suggested or warned so maybe it
> has another 10,000 miles left?
>
> I went back to using green coolant, somewhat difficult to find. I will
> also be using ordinary oil for the next oil change instead of the
> semi-synthetic. My best guess is that the lack of a coolant change
> damaged the seals inside the engine, even considering its age. Is that
> possible? The coolant had the right pH but its anti-corrosion
> properties were gone.

3.0 you say? Hmmm...what teardown?....about 2.5 flat rate hours to
replace the crank seal, some extra for both cam seals, do the water
pump while there, a timing belt and, if (big "if") there're no head
gasket leaks, you'd be in business....

cavedweller wrote:

<<snip>>
>
> 3.0 you say? Hmmm...what teardown?....about 2.5 flat rate hours to
> replace the crank seal, some extra for both cam seals, do the water
> pump while there, a timing belt and, if (big "if") there're no head
> gasket leaks, you'd be in business....

With that kind of mileage? No. It needs to be demated.

I would probably try to find a second core engine and rebuild that and
swap them out, keeping the vehicle rolling as much as possible. I have
no idea if these are expensive or cheap as cores.

I also don't know if these Mits engines are available as a JDM pull on
the ricer market. That would be a better alternative, likely as not.

Bret Ludwig wrote:
> cavedweller wrote:
>
> <<snip>>
> >
> > 3.0 you say? Hmmm...what teardown?....about 2.5 flat rate hours to
> > replace the crank seal, some extra for both cam seals, do the water
> > pump while there, a timing belt and, if (big "if") there're no head
> > gasket leaks, you'd be in business....
>
> With that kind of mileage? No. It needs to be demated.
>
> I would probably try to find a second core engine and rebuild that and
> swap them out, keeping the vehicle rolling as much as possible. I have
> no idea if these are expensive or cheap as cores.
>
> I also don't know if these Mits engines are available as a JDM pull on
> the ricer market. That would be a better alternative, likely as not.

Would a pressure check just confirm a leaking head gasket leak or not
be able to tell between a leaking water pump, head gasket, or another
seal?

I did check JDM, via TradeKey.com, is that how to do it? Did not see
any Mits engines for sale.

If buying a junk Mits engine, look for oil leakage on the outside? Or
one with some of its usage attached somehow? I can't rebuild the spare
engine but it's a good suggestion of yours.

Don't understand the poster who said 2.5 hours. The two quotes I got
were all day jobs at least. Where do you find a mechanic who can do
this in 2.5 hours? Would this be someone moonlighting with super skills?

wrote:
> Bret Ludwig wrote:
> > cavedweller wrote:
> >
> > <<snip>>
> > >
> > > 3.0 you say? Hmmm...what teardown?....about 2.5 flat rate hours to
> > > replace the crank seal, some extra for both cam seals, do the water
> > > pump while there, a timing belt and, if (big "if") there're no head
> > > gasket leaks, you'd be in business....
> >
> > With that kind of mileage? No. It needs to be demated.
> >
> > I would probably try to find a second core engine and rebuild that and
> > swap them out, keeping the vehicle rolling as much as possible. I have
> > no idea if these are expensive or cheap as cores.
> >
> > I also don't know if these Mits engines are available as a JDM pull on
> > the ricer market. That would be a better alternative, likely as not.
>
> Would a pressure check just confirm a leaking head gasket leak or not
> be able to tell between a leaking water pump, head gasket, or another
> seal?
>
> I did check JDM, via TradeKey.com, is that how to do it? Did not see
> any Mits engines for sale.
>
> If buying a junk Mits engine, look for oil leakage on the outside? Or
> one with some of its usage attached somehow? I can't rebuild the spare
> engine but it's a good suggestion of yours.
>
> Don't understand the poster who said 2.5 hours. The two quotes I got
> were all day jobs at least. Where do you find a mechanic who can do
> this in 2.5 hours? Would this be someone moonlighting with super skills?

Found the dealer report. It states:

Pressure tested the cooling system, due to antifreeze in the oil.
Water pump is leaking, right side of engine. Antifreeze is in oil.
Possible head gasket cracked head, cracked block. We cannot be certqain
until we tear it down.

Sounds terrible.

Bret Ludwig wrote:
> cavedweller wrote:
>
> <<snip>>
> >
> > 3.0 you say? Hmmm...what teardown?....about 2.5 flat rate hours to
> > replace the crank seal, some extra for both cam seals, do the water
> > pump while there, a timing belt and, if (big "if") there're no head
> > gasket leaks, you'd be in business....
>
> With that kind of mileage? No. It needs to be demated.

Well, you don't know any better than I what "kind" of mileage the unit
has. It has a bunch, admittedly, but so what? The bottom end of these
engines is pretty good. It may be dumping a lot of oil down the valve
guides by now of course, but we haven't heard that commented upon.

The owner would seem to prefer to be more concerned with coolant pH
than mechanical repairs, and he may choose to follow your advice. By
the way, the usual repairs for the kind of leaks these engines develop
doesn't require "demating".

I'll play....should we accept the third-hand opinion expressed
originally that the head gaskets might be OK?

> I would probably try to find a second core engine and rebuild that and
> swap them out, keeping the vehicle rolling as much as possible.

What do you mean keep it rolling? A decent shop can staunch the front
end oil and glycol leaks in less than a day. I just had it done on a
3.0 with as many miles on it and also had a jobber oil pan
installed....all for about $650

> I have no idea if these are expensive or cheap as cores.

There are plenty of them around, but why don't you know that?

Of course, if the owner finds one, he'll have no idea of the condition
of the crank and cam seals, nor the water pump, nor the timing belt.
And you're only suggesting looking for a core? Cripes, he already has
that!!
>
> I also don't know if these Mits engines are available as a JDM pull on
> the ricer market. That would be a better alternative, likely as not.

Oh great, I definite maybe....and your estimate of cost is?

wrote:

> >
> > Don't understand the poster who said 2.5 hours. The two quotes I got
> > were all day jobs at least. Where do you find a mechanic who can do
> > this in 2.5 hours? Would this be someone moonlighting with super skills?
>
> Found the dealer report. It states:
>
> Pressure tested the cooling system, due to antifreeze in the oil.
> Water pump is leaking, right side of engine. Antifreeze is in oil.
> Possible head gasket cracked head, cracked block. We cannot be certqain
> until we tear it down.
>
> Sounds terrible.

Well, it ain't good. That's the "big IF" in my previous post.

By the way, I indicated that the shop flat rate for replacing the front
crankshaft seal is about 2.5 hours...that's what they get paid for.
The cam seals are easily replaced at the same time with a little extra
work (and that you would pay for). Likewise the water pump is exposed
at the same time. Seems, however, that you have bigger problems.

David Dowell wrote:
> I've got a 91 model 3.0L with about 280,000 and it stills runs great. These
> engines have very thin rings and will not tolerate sludge in the oil so one
> of the keys to making one of these things last is proper oil changes (3000
> mile severe service type). Without additional info I would guess the oil is
> getting into the oil because of a blown head gasket. This engine is also
> prone to do that if at all overheated. Have a mechanic pressurize each
> cylinder with the radiator cap off. If a head gasket is gone, you'll know
> it, anifreeze will roll out of the radiator. Good luck.

That is really helpful, thanks. If not a blown head gasket, must be
then a cracked block? Would not something seep out of the block in that
case? In any case, your suggestion makes sense.

I agree with the oil changes. I missed one oil change, 5,000 miles and
about 7 months.
Don't know if that did it but certainly did not help matters at 200,000
miles. And the problems started shortly after that. Coincidence?

> "cavedweller" > wrote in message
> > The owner would seem to prefer to be more concerned with coolant pH
> > than mechanical repairs, and he may choose to follow your advice. By
> > the way, the usual repairs for the kind of leaks these engines develop
> > doesn't require "demating".

The owner, me, was concerned about the pH before any of this occurred.
Now it's a non-issue. I was going to change the coolant at that point
but forgot when concerned about bigger issues, like a failing A604
tranny. By the time I sorted out the tranny, I completely forgot about
the coolant until it started disappearing.

> > What do you mean keep it rolling? A decent shop can staunch the front
> > end oil and glycol leaks in less than a day. I just had it done on a
> > 3.0 with as many miles on it and also had a jobber oil pan
> > installed....all for about $650

By "leaks," you mean things other than a head gasket, like the seals?

wrote:
>
> By "leaks," you mean things other than a head gasket, like the seals?

Correct. On the "front" of the engine (the right side of the vehicle),
there is a seal on the crankshaft and one on each of the camshafts.
There is also a seal on the central coolant pipe behind the water
pump....all of these things just mentioned, and the timing belt, are
accessible once access is gained by removal of accessories and covers.
The water pump itself can develop a leak from within itself, around its
own shaft seal.

The cylinder heads are on "top", left and right (front and rear with
reference to vehicle).