N.J. Man Killed, Teen Locked Up After Road Rage Incident

MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver,
authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and tried
to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was punched
into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.

http://www.wnbc.com/traffic/4970761/detail.html

> http://www.wnbc.com/traffic/4970761/detail.html

"[He] rolled off the hood of Munter's 1999 Mercury Sable."

Aggravated assault? He was hit by the Sloth! There was one case of a
neighbour being followed home because a slowpoke didn't like being
passed on the left. He drove around the block for awhile before calling
for support. The Sloth backed up very fast and left the area after
seeing what could happen next. That "53-year-old" wouldn't have made it
far enough to hit me. After proper warning and attempts to make him
crash into something else, the Sloth at least would've needed an ambulance.

BE wrote:
> MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver,
> authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and tried
> to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was punched
> into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.
>
> http://www.wnbc.com/traffic/4970761/detail.html
>
>

The man didn't *try* to run him down, he successfully hit the youth with
his car. The teen rolled off the bonnet and landed on his feet. The
teen walked to the drivers door and then administered only *two* blows
to the drivers head with his fist (no weapon).

I reckon this one is easily self defense, the other driver was doing his
best to severely injure this kid and could have easily killed him. If
anyone had just been *deliberately* hit by another car when trying to
run into their house, then they wouldn't be in a normal state of mind
and may well inadvertently administer excessive self defense.

Yes the teen cut off the other bloke, but this man was clearly a moron
behind the wheel with anger management issues and no doubt would've been
a fatality waiting to happen.

I was cut off on my motorbike twice on a ride earlier in the week. I
flashed my high beams at one bloke, and ignored the other, that was the
end of it. Why follow someone? It *will* lead to unnecessary trouble.

--
SL

"The essence of propaganda consists in winning people over
to an idea so sincerely, so vitally, that in the end they
succumb to it utterly and can never again escape from it"

Joseph Goebbels - Nazi Minister of Propaganda, 1933 - 1945

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:27:17 GMT, "BE" > wrote:

> MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver,
>authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and tried
>to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was punched
>into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.

So now that arrogant little punk is not only a ****ty driver, he's a
murderer too.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:27:17 GMT, "BE" > wrote:
>
> > MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver,
> >authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and
tried
> >to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was punched
> >into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.
>
> So now that arrogant little punk is not only a ****ty driver, he's a
> murderer too.
>

Scott - What the ****, man? Did you really write that?

We had attempted murder followed by a couple of punches from the intended
victim of attempted murder delivered to the head of the perp. The perp
later died. I guess it doesn't pay to attempt to murder someone. This
teenager should not be in jail. He is NOT a murderer. I think he snapped,
as any person in that situation would. If someone had successfully and
deliberately hit me with their car (that was NOT an accident), I would sure
as Hell be deliberately trying to cause them bodily harm afterward. You try
to kill me, the GLOVES ARE OFF.

How can you call the victim here an arrogant little punk and a murderer?
Sheesh. He reacted in a sane, reasonable manner, as anyone would, if
someone else tried to kill them. -Dave

Scott en Aztlán wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:27:17 GMT, "BE" > wrote:
>
>
>>MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver,
>>authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and tried
>>to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was punched
>>into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.
>
>
> So now that arrogant little punk is not only a ****ty driver, he's a
> murderer too.
>

What the hell are you talking about?

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wi...on-apnewjersey

If that's what happened, it was self-defense. The asshole who followed him home
got what he deserved.

Dave C. wrote:

> This teenager should not be in jail. He is NOT a murderer.


Absolutely. What the **** is the DA thinking? Sure, investigate,
but dont hold him in jail. Road rage ****s should take notice
of this case.

"223rem" > wrote in message
news:l96We.110763$084.103877@attbi_s22...
> Scott en Aztlán wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:27:17 GMT, "BE" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver,
>>>authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and
>>>tried to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was
>>>punched into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.
>>
>>
>> So now that arrogant little punk is not only a ****ty driver, he's a
>> murderer too.
>>
>
> What the hell are you talking about?
>
> http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wi...on-apnewjersey
>
> If that's what happened, it was self-defense. The asshole who followed him
> home
> got what he deserved.

No ****, and if you read between the lines, just a bit--

Munter's son-in-law, Mark Serota, who described the man as "nice,
fun-loving, goodhearted," said he lost consciousness instantly and never
regained it.

Serota said police had asked the family not to talk about the details of the
incident, including whether it seemed in character for Munter to follow or
confront someone he considered to be a rude driver.


Had this guy done this before?

Rather odd instructions on what to not speak of, don't ya think?

Bernard

> confront someone he considered to be a rude driver

"Confront" seems rather a tactical choice of words. I'd say that
yelling "Where'd you learn to drive, you [Army Word] idiot?" and going
your own way is confronting somebody; what he did, according to the
news report, could be more like an attack.

Now, what the DA's probably wondering is, what options did the kid have
besides going up to the driver and punching him out? In many states
(well, probably everywhere as an informal matter) something called a
"reasonable man" test is applied in the aftermath of use of deadly
force. They might be arguing that a reasonable man would have sought
refuge, perhaps by running someplace where a car couldn't follow. You
can see where the physical circumstances of that final confrontation
would play into this.

That's just one part of the official Monday-morning quarterbacking
concerning how else one might have solved the problem, and whether the
threat (to which in most states, usually, you're allowed to react
proportionately) was still in effect or had dissipated, etc.

Though the deceased is not physically described in the article, the
fact that the teenager was a very large (6-foot-6, 300 pounds) athlete
a third his age will doubtless figure into this as well.

So will a lot of other things, many of which would not appear in
initial (or possibly any other) media reports, all of them filtered
through the ritualized artificial world of the justice system. One of
them will be state of mind.

Another will be whether the guy really did purposely run him over. So
will what he was doing in the moments leading up to the fatal punchout:
trying to get away? trying to run him down again? screaming
something provocative? apologizing? just sitting there with his mouth
hanging open?

Along with the drug states of both parties.

The real world is messier and more subtle than it sometimes seems in
the newspapers -- and definitely more so than when the lawyers and
spokesmen on either side are trying to spin it their way. That's why
we have juries. I must admit that there could be more to this than
presently meets the eye.

The one thing I can make a high-confidence guess about, based on the
WNBC story, is that the now deceased driver had three miles in which to
disengage at any time, and as a man in his 50s might even have used his
putative superior maturity to take advantage of them, but instead
followed his opponent home. The defense may well focus on that,
arguing that it was his fight to start or not.

--Joe

In article . com>, Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:

> Now, what the DA's probably wondering is, what options did the kid have
> besides going up to the driver and punching him out? In many states
> (well, probably everywhere as an informal matter) something called a
> "reasonable man" test is applied in the aftermath of use of deadly
> force. They might be arguing that a reasonable man would have sought
> refuge, perhaps by running someplace where a car couldn't follow. You
> can see where the physical circumstances of that final confrontation
> would play into this.

Having thought about this for a bit, if some hit me on purpose and I had
the chance to strike back, I would do some serious and costly damage to
their vehicle if it looked like it was worth anything.

I don't think I could actually strike the person unless he came out of
his vehicle and attacked me. I would probably act to render the vehicle
useless or at least clearly mark it.