Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Mark A > wrote:
>"SMS" > wrote in message
.. .
>> <snip>
>>An oil analysis is a good investment to determine the optimum oil change
>>interval.
>> <snip>
>
>Can you prove that? I would like to seem a financial analysis of your claim.
>Don't forget to figure in the cost of a person's time, which in my case is
>about $60 per hour.

The problem is that one oil analysis tells you nothing... you have to keep
doing a whole bunch of them to get a good sense for what is going on.

With a big diesel engine that takes a lot of oil and uses an expensive
filter, oil analysis can save you a lot of money.

With a typical auto engine, reducing your oil change interval will cost
less than doing constant testing. However, if you are the sort of person
who wants to always know what is going on inside your engine and who might
want warning of possible failure with high mileage, it might be worth the
money to you. But that's more a psychological thing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

This is one of the longest threads I've ever seen.
Maybe someone should start a new newsgroup for oil/filters?
:-)
Dick

"Dick R." > wrote in message
. ..
> This is one of the longest threads I've ever seen.
> Maybe someone should start a new newsgroup for oil/filters?
> :-)
> Dick

Some of the OT threads are much longer.

On 2008-11-27, Mark A > wrote:

> But just in case I am totally and completely wrong, and have completely
> deluded myself in this matter, I am only out $30 per year (even if you don't
> count gas mileage savings).

Just extending the drain interval well within the capabilities of syn.
oil will even out the cost.

"Ray O" > wrote in message
...
> I use synthetic oil in 2 out of 4 cars. Obviously, I don't have anything
> against synthetic oil since I use it myself. The part I disagree on is
> that using synthetic saves money when following the factory recommended
> oil change intervals.

Let's face it Ray, you disagree with everything I have ever posted on this
forum, for reasons that have nothing to do with the substance of my posts.
You previously posted that you use synthetic is all 3 or your cars, but
obviously things have changed since then (number of cars has changed, and
number that you synthetic in).

No one knows for sure how much synthetic oil will save you, if any. You
could recoup some or all of the cost if you sold the car yourself, and
provided receipts that showed you always used synthetic for every oil
change. You might get 1% better gas mileage. You might avoid a repair that
would have otherwise been necessary. It is hard to say.

I have more liability insurance than the state requires (hundreds of
thousands more). Do I need that much insurance? Will I save money by having
more insurance? Probably not, but it you never know. I pay a lot more for
the extra liability insurance than I do for the synthetic oil. In fact, I
pay more money for Twinkies every year (which I definitely don't need) than
I pay for synthetic oil. According to Wikipedia, there was $61 billion USD
spent worldwide on bottled water in 2006, and people are complaining that I
am wasting $30 per year on synthetic oil?

$30 extra per year for synthetic oil is very cheap insurance IMO.
Admittedly, if you only have your car for 3 years and trade it in, or it
goes back to dealer after the lease expires, then maybe it will not pay off.
But debating about that small amount of money is ridiculous IMO.

SMS wrote:
> Mark A wrote:
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> The thing is, the cost argument is a very good argument. I change my
>>> oil
>>> every 3,000 miles, which works out to a little bit more often than
>>> once a
>>> month. This adds up to a substantial cost in the end.
>>
>> Most people don't change their oil every 3000 miles, but let's look at
>> your situation.
>>
>> If you used synthetic oil and changed every 5000 miles, I would
>> guarantee you that your oil would be in better shape at 5000 miles
>> with synthetic than at 3000 miles with conventional.
>
> On what basis would you guarantee such a thing?
>

Oil analysis.


> There is no benefit in changing conventional oil every 3000 miles versus
> every 5000 miles, and the same holds true for synthetics.
>
> If you're doing extended oil change intervals, beyond the manufacturer's
> requirements, then you might extend the drain interval to at least the
> severe service interval.


--
"Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you.
There are few things that intimidate me; and a
post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
news
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:36:30 -0600, "Dick R." > wrote:
>
>>This is one of the longest threads I've ever seen.
>>Maybe someone should start a new newsgroup for oil/filters?
>>:-)
>>Dick
>
> Someone starts this exact same thread every month or two. There is
> almost no agreement to be had on the subject and everyone wants to put
> in their two cents. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go change my
> oil. I use one quart of Royal Purple, 1 qt of Mobile One, 1 qt of
> Walmart blue label, and 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil. For a filter I
> use an Amsoiled bypass filter mounted in the trunk to provide some
> cooling. For the element I use Charmin 12 ply toilet paper, with the
> center tube removed of course.

That's too much work. It's almost time for my own annual oil change, but
I'll just take the cars to the Grease 'n' Go and let them put in whatever it
is that they have.

dwight

"dwight" > wrote in message
...
> That's too much work. It's almost time for my own annual oil change, but
> I'll just take the cars to the Grease 'n' Go and let them put in whatever
> it is that they have.
>
> dwight

If you just get "whatever it is that they have" you may end up with recycled
oil. Make sure it is at least some brand name of oil.

Mark A wrote:
>
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The thing is, the cost argument is a very good argument. I change my oil
> > every 3,000 miles, which works out to a little bit more often than once a
> > month. This adds up to a substantial cost in the end.
>
> Most people don't change their oil every 3000 miles, but let's look at your
> situation.
>
> If you used synthetic oil and changed every 5000 miles, I would guarantee
> you that your oil would be in better shape at 5000 miles with synthetic than
> at 3000 miles with conventional.


This and most of the rest of the discussion is off the mark. If you change
oil at 3000 miles it is because you are interested in what the engine will
be like in 300000 miles not what the oil will be like in 5000 miles. Most
people don't care what the inside of the engine looks like in 300000 miles -
why should they? If you are a typical new car owner you sell the car long
before you discover the consequences of the maintenance intervals you use. A
7000 mile oil change interval is adequate for most new car owners. To change
any more than that does them no good and will likely only benefit the 3rd
owner of the vehicle.


As far as I know the type of dirt that gets into oil due to combustion
byproducts is not going to be any different for synthetic oil. If you use
cheap oil and filter and change every 3000 miles after 300000 miles the
engine will be as clean or cleaner on the inside than the day it was driven
off the lot. That is because there will not be any accumulation of grime
over time.
From what I have seen about 90%-98% of vehicles with more than 120K miles
are not so clean on the inside. Wipe your finger on the inside of these
engines and you no longer have a clean finger. I don't need to know what
those cars have had for maintenance, but I'm pretty sure it definitely
isn't 3000 mile oil and filter changes.

-jim


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

In article >, jim > wrote:
>
>This and most of the rest of the discussion is off the mark. If you change
>oil at 3000 miles it is because you are interested in what the engine will
>be like in 300000 miles not what the oil will be like in 5000 miles. Most
>people don't care what the inside of the engine looks like in 300000 miles -
>why should they? If you are a typical new car owner you sell the car long
>before you discover the consequences of the maintenance intervals you use. A
>7000 mile oil change interval is adequate for most new car owners. To change
>any more than that does them no good and will likely only benefit the 3rd
>owner of the vehicle.

This is the basic issue involved here. For most people, keeping their
car in better condition doesn't benefit them any. I think this is a very
serious problem; when I was very young my parents taught me to treat my
things properly. It seems a lot of people don't remember this.

> As far as I know the type of dirt that gets into oil due to combustion
>byproducts is not going to be any different for synthetic oil. If you use
>cheap oil and filter and change every 3000 miles after 300000 miles the
>engine will be as clean or cleaner on the inside than the day it was driven
>off the lot. That is because there will not be any accumulation of grime
>over time.

This is true, BUT it's possible that the synthetic oil can hold more
combustion byproducts in suspension for longer.

And, for a lot of modern engines that are built to tight tolerances,
combustion byproducts may not be the primary failure mechanism of the
oil. Of course, you don't know if this is the case for your engine without
doing an oil analysis.

> From what I have seen about 90%-98% of vehicles with more than 120K miles
>are not so clean on the inside. Wipe your finger on the inside of these
>engines and you no longer have a clean finger. I don't need to know what
>those cars have had for maintenance, but I'm pretty sure it definitely
>isn't 3000 mile oil and filter changes.

This is sadly true. However, I will say that if you pull the valve covers
on MY cars and run your finger around, it will come back clean, after 270,000
miles and 480,000 miles on each. At least, it did the last time I did
valve adjustment on them which was a few months ago. I understand this is
not typical, but I don't want a typical car. I want a car that runs well
for a long time and doesn't cost much to keep running.

I will attribute the cleanliness of the engine more to regular oil changes
every 3,000 miles than to the use of the synthetics.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."