oil for '65 t-bird

My friend have a '65 thunderbird and is wondering what kind of motor
oil to use. I can't seem to find anything on a web site so I thought
I'd ask here.

wrote:
> My friend have a '65 thunderbird and is wondering what kind of motor
> oil to use. I can't seem to find anything on a web site so I thought
> I'd ask here.

IMHO for an older American car you can't go wrong with a "fleet" oil
like Shell Rotella 15W40 or similar. If you want a synthetic, Mobil 1
Truck and SUV is a similar 5W40. I'd start with a change with Rotella
and see if your friend has any issues with that. Upside: Rotella is
cheap! but full of detergents to keep the engine's insides nice and
clean.

nate

Indeed. Motor oils have a letter following the weight. Every so often they
increase the letter to match oils to advances in engines. I remember
having to get rid of my 10W30 F oil and start using 10W30 G. Makes you
wonder what they have done to oil since the 1960's and why.

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Exactly, that's why it makes me wonder what today's numbers and letters
would be for a car from 40 years ago. But do we all agree it would be a
15-40?

wrote:
> Exactly, that's why it makes me wonder what today's numbers and letters
> would be for a car from 40 years ago. But do we all agree it would be a
> 15-40?

A "standard" oil back then was a straight 30 weight, so a 15W40 should
be fine.

Once the 15W40 is in there, the owner of the car can monitor
temperature, pressure etc. and see if a different viscosity should be
used for the next change.

nate

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> My friend have a '65 thunderbird and is wondering what kind of motor
> oil to use. I can't seem to find anything on a web site so I thought
> I'd ask here.
>
In the heat of So. Carolina, I like Castrol 20W50. Has been good to us
for older, higher mileage engines, like the older 68-75 Pontiac
350's/400's/455's and similar years Buick 350's & 455's. Using 10W30, oil
lites begin to flicker at idle; switching to Cas. 20W50 would stop both that
AND oil seeming to lose viscosity and letting the oil lite come on when the
engine heated up completely & lifters began to clack. HTH & good luck. s

As you might imagine, this can provoke a lively discussion and a groan
or two on the T-Bird mailing lists (see http://www.tbird.org).

In my interpretation, house-brand 10W40 is the modern equivalent of
what the owner's manual suggests. Change it about every 3K and use a
quality filter (the Motorcraft FL-1A is readily available and
competitively priced). The five-quart jug is, intentionally, the
right amount for a complete change with new filter.

I run 5W40 or 5W50 synthetic in my '66. The incremental cost of using
synthetic is about ten dollars an oil change, a small fraction of the
cost of operating such a car.

However, I know the history of my car since overhaul. There is much
debate over whether to use synthetics in a "survivor" or older resto
whose past use and maintenance are unknown to you. Some people really
like the new generation of "high mileage" motor oils in a somewhat worn
older car that has the odd leak here and there; cost is about a buck
fifty a quart.

That might be a good choice for the extra bottle you keep in the trunk
(like most cars of the era, they'll consume more oil than we're used to
nowadays -- a quart or so during the change interval is nothing to be
alarmed about if the engine seems healthy otherwise).

I would not try to squeeze out the 6,000 miles between changes that
Ford suggested was possible, unless I was doing highway driving
exclusively. Somewhere in the neighborhood of every 3-4k should be
about right.

Have fun with your Bird,
--Joe

wrote:

> My friend have a '65 thunderbird and is wondering what kind of motor
> oil to use. I can't seem to find anything on a web site so I thought
> I'd ask here.
>

What is the story on the engine? Is it an original un-opened engine? Low
miles? High miles? Does it consume oil?

If its a tight, non-leaking, non-oil burning engine and you want the
very best protection for it, go with a synthetic 10w30 or thereabouts.
If its a bit of an oil burner, go with a cheaper non-synthetic, but I'd
still recommend 10w30 or maybe 15w50.

Forget those "high mileage" oils- they're just regular oil with some
spoo in them to make the seals swell. They'll ultimately shorten the
life of the seals though.


If its a fresh rebuild, DEFINITELY go with the best (synthetic) oil you
can buy, at least after the intial break-in. Tolerances and clearances
in engines from the 60s are almost identical to modern engines anyway-
in fact the ONLY real difference is modern engines with hypereutectic
pistons (and people frequently rebuild 60s engines with HE pistons now
also).

Ad absurdum per aspera > wrote:
>However, I know the history of my car since overhaul. There is much
>debate over whether to use synthetics in a "survivor" or older resto
>whose past use and maintenance are unknown to you. Some people really
>like the new generation of "high mileage" motor oils in a somewhat worn
>older car that has the odd leak here and there; cost is about a buck
>fifty a quart.

The synthetics have some good points and bad points. Many of them have
very good solvent properties, and will remove huge amounts of gum and
varnish from older engines. This means sticky lifter problems sometimes
go away, but it also means that sometimes you get a lot more oil leakage
too.

The leakage issue is made worse by the fact that the synthetics flow a
lot better than most petroleum oils, so pinhole leaks that were non-issues
turn into big problems.

Personally I have been using Castrol 5W-50 and the Royal Purple 20W-40
synthetics in a variety of older engines and have basically been quite
happy with it. The Castrol seems to have more blowby than the Royal
Purple stuff, which may just be due to the viscosity.

I did have a problem with a stationary engine that seemed to be held
together completely with gum and tar. I tried the Castrol stuff in it,
and the oil filter clogged up after five hours of running time, from
all the junk that was going into solution. That was a horribly-abused
engine before I got it, though.

>I would not try to squeeze out the 6,000 miles between changes that
>Ford suggested was possible, unless I was doing highway driving
>exclusively. Somewhere in the neighborhood of every 3-4k should be
>about right.

I'm still trying for 2,500 miles between changes. 480,000 miles on
a crappy Chrysler Laser is a good sign I must be doing something right.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:
> As you might imagine, this can provoke a lively discussion and a groan
> or two on the T-Bird mailing lists (see http://www.tbird.org).
>
> In my interpretation, house-brand 10W40 is the modern equivalent of
> what the owner's manual suggests. Change it about every 3K and use a
> quality filter (the Motorcraft FL-1A is readily available and
> competitively priced). The five-quart jug is, intentionally, the
> right amount for a complete change with new filter.

Joe, I usually agree with your advice, but in this case I'm going to
have to respectfully disagree with you. Traditionally, a 10W40
conventional oil has a lot of VI improvers which break down with heat
and mileage, thinning out the oil, which is less than ideal. I'd stick
with either a 10W30 or a 15W40 depending on the requirements of the
engine (if it holds sufficient oil pressure with 10W30 that will
provide better flow and incrementally better mileage, so its use is
preferable IF the engine is "tight" enough to use it.) I basically
mistrust any non-synthetic that has a viscosity spread that large (i.e.
the numbers before and after the "W" are that different.)

>
> I run 5W40 or 5W50 synthetic in my '66. The incremental cost of using
> synthetic is about ten dollars an oil change, a small fraction of the
> cost of operating such a car.
>

Not a bad plan, IF the engine isn't a leak-monster. Since you say it's
been overhauled below, that's probably the best plan for you. One of
the big advantages of synthetic is that it doesn't need as many VI
improvers to have a large viscosity spread, i.e. a 10W40 conventional
oil is iffy but a 5W40 synthetic is probably just fine. This makes
life easier on your starter in cold weather without the need to switch
between a "summer" (e.g. 15W40 or straight 30 weight) and "winter"
(e.g. 10W30 or lighter) oil.

> However, I know the history of my car since overhaul. There is much
> debate over whether to use synthetics in a "survivor" or older resto
> whose past use and maintenance are unknown to you. Some people really
> like the new generation of "high mileage" motor oils in a somewhat worn
> older car that has the odd leak here and there; cost is about a buck
> fifty a quart.

Better yet IMHO than the "high mileage" oils are the "fleet" oils, also
known as HDEO's (Heavy Duty Engine Oils) or "dual rated" (will have an
API Sx/Cx rating for Spark/Compression, or Gasoline/Diesel) oils.
They're cheap, have TONS of detergents and anti-wear additives, and are
often available in gallon jugs for less than a regular 10W30. Most
common weight is 15W40. Two common brands are Shell Rotella and Mobil
Delvac.

>
> That might be a good choice for the extra bottle you keep in the trunk
> (like most cars of the era, they'll consume more oil than we're used to
> nowadays -- a quart or so during the change interval is nothing to be
> alarmed about if the engine seems healthy otherwise).
>

Agreed.

> I would not try to squeeze out the 6,000 miles between changes that
> Ford suggested was possible, unless I was doing highway driving
> exclusively. Somewhere in the neighborhood of every 3-4k should be
> about right.
>
> Have fun with your Bird,
> --Joe

Agreed yet again. If the engine is super sludgy inside, you might want
to consider using a fleet oil and changing a couple times at even
shorter intervals, such as 1000 miles or even less if the oil is
getting noticeably dirty before then. A few cycles of this will start
to gently clean the insides of your engine, if you periodically have
the valve covers off you will actually notice the old varnish deposits
softening up and becoming easier to remove.

good luck,

nate