Buying a Used Explorer

Very good points from all... Absolutely nothing is going to be better than
talking to the previous owner - especially when we realize that the PO has
no vested interest in this vehicle any more.

*Most* "branded" car lots will usually only offer the cream of the crop when
it comes to used vehicles (those vehicles in high demand do tend to get
shuffle through the system a bit differently - more on that in a bit). There
is a dearth of corner used car lots in our area. The cars they sell have to
come from somewhere and it is usually from car lots that don't want those
creme puffs associated with their names. Some of these corner lots may be
associated with "branded" dealer principals while others may not... Suffice
to say that finding a genuinely good used car at one of these lots is more
gamble than guarranty.

Most brand name dealerships are truly concern over the image they present
(any sane ones, at least) and they will offer those vehicles that they feel
will offer up reliable, trouble free use. Naturally, the price tag will
usually reflect this factoid. In the past, I have likely paid too much for
many of the used units I have purchased.. in return, I have had many, many
miles of troublefree service from them. My current 92 is one of those...
tough to say how much I actually paid for it since I was "motivated" and
decided to trade my 93 SuperCab rather than go through the hassle of
advertising/showing/selling/yadda yadda. We fudged the numbers back and
forth till we found a deal I was comfortable with. Net result is a car that
has offered me a low cost per mile.

It helps that I interact with machines better than I do with people (ask
Mrs. mechanic.....) and I have been blessed with some 6th sense that allows
me to judge a car as a keeper or a passer by driving for just a few miles in
varying conditions. Side point... buy the one you liked driving.. don't
drive the green one, say it feels good and then buy the red one.

Brand name dealers can't always rely on trade ins for their used car stocks.
Used to be that either the DP or one of his employees would go to the
auction. One dealer I worked for made good money buying cars in the 'B' or
'C' lane, use slack time in the shop to clean them up and get them decent
mechanically and send them back to the auction. My current employer utilizes
the service of a professional buyer. He concentrates on cars in the 'A'
lane... once the carws are brought home, they go through a close examination
and we reserve the right to return those that we feel unsuitable. Since my
bay is the alignment rack, I see most of these cars and have condemned many
of them as unsuitable for our lot. That's not to say that we haven't sold
the odd lemon but our DP like to make sure that nobody can say anything
nasty about our team and the customer will at least be satisfied.

Back to "Herbie the Curber"... Back when I lived in the city, there were
several corner lots that seemed to change signage about as often as most
pople change their shorts. They'd flog a bunch of creme puffs and when
customer complaints rose to a crescendo, the faces and the sign would
change. Still happens today (though, thankfully, I don't go to the city very
often). It's amazing what a power polish and a visit from paintless dent
removal and Dr. Windshield can do. Never-the-less, when we apply lipstick to
a pig, we have only achieved a pig wearing lipstick. Needless to say, there
are some of those "mechanic in a can" treatments that do seem to work for a
short period of time and there are ways to hide some shortcomings.... Ever
notice the salesman starts the car for you and immediately revs the motor a
few times??? He has just hidden some oil consumption clues.... Ever had one
of these guys say "If you buy this baby today, I'll have my mechanic fix
that...."?

For the vast majority of people, purchasing a vehicle (even a used
vehicle... remember, it wasn't long ago I bought a used pick up for $30K
CA... AND got a good deal at that) is likely the biggest investment they
will ever make... yet they will insist on spending more time researching the
purchase of a new TV than they will their next car.

Occassionally, I visit a more diversified message board venue.... One young
fellow has a boner for a "cheap" MR2 (whatever the hell that is).... problem
is it will start but wont run. He's bound and determine he is going to buy
this money pit in spite of the only comment I could come up with "Why do you
think it's for sale???".

I've suddenly realized.... Herbie isn't screwing the consumer.... he is only
helping the consumer screw himself.....

God have mercy on our souls....


"Anthony Giorgianni" >
wrote in message
...
> Thanks for that story, Happy
>
> Actually, as a consumer journalist specializing in auto stuff, I can
assure
> you, "Buyer beware" is the rule. (I recently finished a piece in which I
> interviewed about a dozen used car salespeople who are now whistleblowers.
> What you say is true for sure.) But that's why the buyers have to educate
> themselves and take control. If a dealer tells you he doesn't know where
the
> vehicle came from, that means it's an auction car - former lease, rental
or
> worse. You need to say: "Oh, I don't want a car that you know nothing
about.
> Do you have one a customer traded in?" If not, or if he is unwilling to
> accommodate you, simple, walk away. But the moment you start to go out the
> door, he'll likely have one. :O) By the way, a dealer will have the
> paperwork on the car or he won't be able to pass title. If it's a former
> lease, then he may not know the name of the previous lessee, unless of
> course he was the one who sold the lease to start with.
>
> You have to let a dealer know what you expect: The kind of car and the
kind
> of info. I help lots of people buy cars new and used. I assure you that
you
> can get a dealer to give you what you want if you are up front about your
> expectations. In fact, I find that dealers respect that and will drop the
> tricks as soon as they see it.
>
> The quickest way to get what you want is to walk into a dealership with a
> printout from an online pricing service such as Edmunds, a clipboard with
> price worksheets and a calculator or laptop. And it doesn't mean you have
to
> be nasty or that car-buying can't even be fun. You just have to let
dealers
> know that YOU know what you are doing and that you have definite
> expectations.
>
> As far as buying used, buying from a new car dealer is the best way to
> protect yourself. The new car dealers keep the best and get rid of the
> worst. Buying from a private person leaves you pretty much with no
> protection, unless of course the vehicle still is under manufacturer's
> warranty.
>
> Thanks again for your interesting response.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Anthony Giorgianni
>
> The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting
back
> to the newsgroup.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Happy Traveler" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anthony,
> >
> > Unfortunately, I have a lot less faith in used car salesmen than you do.
> > There is no doubt in my mind that one can develop the kind of trusting
> > relationship with a dealer that you and your dad are enjoying. Perhaps
> > living in a small community and buying all your vehicles from people you
> > meet regularly in church and the PTA is the key. When I visit the three
or
> > four Ford dealerships around me, all I see is smooth talking, desperate
> > salesmen, who may be selling cars today and cell phones tomorrow. They
> know
> > that the only way to feed their children is to sell; no matter what and
no
> > matter to whom. I was never able to obtain any useful information from
> them
> > and learned not to ask. If any of them happen to know something about
what
> > they are selling, it does not show, because they prefer to play it dumb.
> >
> > I still had some trust in salesmen when I was shopping for a used Crown
> > Vic/Grand Marquis several years ago. My first question when I saw one
was:
> > "Where did it come from?" "I don't know", was the standard reply. "Can
you
> > find out for me?" "We don't have this information", they all contiuned.
> > Newer models of those probably have standard ABS, but for the 96-98
> vintage
> > at which I was looking at the time, it was optional. "Does it have ABS?"
> > Without exception, the answer was yes, for every single one of them, on
> > every lot that I visited. I popped the hood on a vehicle that looked in
> > better shape than others, and there was no ABS. "You are wrong", the
young
> > gentleman chastised me with great confidence. Feeling generous, I asked
> him
> > to accompany me to the car that I was driving, and showed him what an
ABS
> > control unit looks like.
> > After several weekends of frustration I stopped asking questions and
just
> > jotted the VINs off the windshields, without even opening a door (no,
you
> > can't tell anything about ABS from the VIN without access to a dealer's
> > computer, but by typing it into Carfax or a similar service you can
learn
> > enough to not want to open that door at all).
> >
> >
>
>

Great inside look there, Jim. Thanks for posting that. Wrote a story on
paintless dent repair last year. Didn't realize til then how much the pros
make use of it in prepping a used vehicle for sale. I was told they
sometimes keep DPR specialists at the auction yards.

By the way, I never did find out whatever happened to that story to helped
me with. Next time I check in, I'm going to ask. I never did get an edited
version, so I only have the original.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.
"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:yqtNd.8911$K54.7294@edtnps84...
> Very good points from all... Absolutely nothing is going to be better than
> talking to the previous owner - especially when we realize that the PO has
> no vested interest in this vehicle any more.
>
> *Most* "branded" car lots will usually only offer the cream of the crop
when
> it comes to used vehicles (those vehicles in high demand do tend to get
> shuffle through the system a bit differently - more on that in a bit).
There
> is a dearth of corner used car lots in our area. The cars they sell have
to
> come from somewhere and it is usually from car lots that don't want those
> creme puffs associated with their names. Some of these corner lots may be
> associated with "branded" dealer principals while others may not...
Suffice
> to say that finding a genuinely good used car at one of these lots is more
> gamble than guarranty.
>
> Most brand name dealerships are truly concern over the image they present
> (any sane ones, at least) and they will offer those vehicles that they
feel
> will offer up reliable, trouble free use. Naturally, the price tag will
> usually reflect this factoid. In the past, I have likely paid too much for
> many of the used units I have purchased.. in return, I have had many, many
> miles of troublefree service from them. My current 92 is one of those...
> tough to say how much I actually paid for it since I was "motivated" and
> decided to trade my 93 SuperCab rather than go through the hassle of
> advertising/showing/selling/yadda yadda. We fudged the numbers back and
> forth till we found a deal I was comfortable with. Net result is a car
that
> has offered me a low cost per mile.
>
> It helps that I interact with machines better than I do with people (ask
> Mrs. mechanic.....) and I have been blessed with some 6th sense that
allows
> me to judge a car as a keeper or a passer by driving for just a few miles
in
> varying conditions. Side point... buy the one you liked driving.. don't
> drive the green one, say it feels good and then buy the red one.
>
> Brand name dealers can't always rely on trade ins for their used car
stocks.
> Used to be that either the DP or one of his employees would go to the
> auction. One dealer I worked for made good money buying cars in the 'B' or
> 'C' lane, use slack time in the shop to clean them up and get them decent
> mechanically and send them back to the auction. My current employer
utilizes
> the service of a professional buyer. He concentrates on cars in the 'A'
> lane... once the carws are brought home, they go through a close
examination
> and we reserve the right to return those that we feel unsuitable. Since my
> bay is the alignment rack, I see most of these cars and have condemned
many
> of them as unsuitable for our lot. That's not to say that we haven't sold
> the odd lemon but our DP like to make sure that nobody can say anything
> nasty about our team and the customer will at least be satisfied.
>
> Back to "Herbie the Curber"... Back when I lived in the city, there were
> several corner lots that seemed to change signage about as often as most
> pople change their shorts. They'd flog a bunch of creme puffs and when
> customer complaints rose to a crescendo, the faces and the sign would
> change. Still happens today (though, thankfully, I don't go to the city
very
> often). It's amazing what a power polish and a visit from paintless dent
> removal and Dr. Windshield can do. Never-the-less, when we apply lipstick
to
> a pig, we have only achieved a pig wearing lipstick. Needless to say,
there
> are some of those "mechanic in a can" treatments that do seem to work for
a
> short period of time and there are ways to hide some shortcomings.... Ever
> notice the salesman starts the car for you and immediately revs the motor
a
> few times??? He has just hidden some oil consumption clues.... Ever had
one
> of these guys say "If you buy this baby today, I'll have my mechanic fix
> that...."?
>
> For the vast majority of people, purchasing a vehicle (even a used
> vehicle... remember, it wasn't long ago I bought a used pick up for $30K
> CA... AND got a good deal at that) is likely the biggest investment they
> will ever make... yet they will insist on spending more time researching
the
> purchase of a new TV than they will their next car.
>
> Occassionally, I visit a more diversified message board venue.... One
young
> fellow has a boner for a "cheap" MR2 (whatever the hell that is)....
problem
> is it will start but wont run. He's bound and determine he is going to buy
> this money pit in spite of the only comment I could come up with "Why do
you
> think it's for sale???".
>
> I've suddenly realized.... Herbie isn't screwing the consumer.... he is
only
> helping the consumer screw himself.....
>
> God have mercy on our souls....
<snip>