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replacing the transfer case chain?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 6th 07, 06:51 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
John Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Anyone with experience replacing a borg warner transfer case chain? Mine is
a borg Warner 4404 for AWD EB 5.0 '96 Explorer. Any help appreciated



Ads
  #2  
Old October 7th 07, 05:57 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
Jim Warman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 630
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the control-trac
system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive chain can be
checked for "slop" without removing or disassembling the transfer case....
Place the system in 4LOW to lock the transfer case.... With the car in park,
raise the front wheels clear of the ground (use jack stands, of course) and
rotate the driveshaft to the front diff back and forth.... This is a bit of
an "acquired taste" and there is no real spec other than sound judgement -
Usually (memory thing here) I see anywhere up to almost 1/8th turn of the
shaft in a good T-case.... I believe that you will see well over 1/4 turn
before things are loose enough for the chain to skip over the sprockets
under heavy torque....

Having said that, once you get the T-case on the bench, you will need a 30mm
socket and a pair of lock ring pliers ( similar to these
http://www.stridetool.com/tools/reta...pliers_06.html ) at the
very least. This will be about a 7 on a scale of one to ten......

Remove the front output flange nut first before splitting the case.... Also,
to remove the shift motor, the electrical connector will need to be
partially disassembled - this is not a difficult step but it is too easy to
break plastic parts.... There is a plastic retainer clip inside the
connector that is removed with needlenose pliers.... look closely inside the
connector and you will see a little plastic tang holding the wire connection
in place... using a seal pick or straightened out paper clip, gently pry
that tang away from the wire and pull the wire fom the connector. I think
you will be removing more that one wire so be sure to note the
colour/location of each wire.

Once you separate the case halves, the rest should be fairly apparent. Work
with purpose - taking digital photos as you progress can help. There are
three balls on a cam ring located between the clutch housing (the one the
electric clutch coil reacts with) and the clutch pack - do not let these
balls "escape". Once you get the clutch pack out, the drive sprocket, chain
and front output shaft lift out as a group. Now is a good time to inspect
the clutch pack friction members.... and replace is necessary - look for any
discolouration that might indicate overheat and look for abnormal wear
patterns.

Carefully inspect the drive and driven sprockets for wear.... The teeth on
the sprockets should be smooth. If these show distinct wear patterns, the
transfer case may be noisy or this wear may affect the service life of the
new chain....

Now you are this far into it, this would be the ideal time to clean or
replace the oil pump pick up screen, inspect and clean the magnet and
inspect (or, if a hi-miler, even consider replacing) the oil pump..... There
is a locating or "anti spin" lug on the oil pump that engages a boss on the
inside of the front case half.... I don't recall seeing concerns with the
4404/4405 cases but I have seen the lug on the oil pump wear right through
the boss inside the case on some transfer cases (usually F150, IIRC).

Considering the scope of the project and the chances for things to go not
quite as smoothly as planned, this may be an good opportunity to try a one
use subscription at
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...&menuIndex1=41
or similar.

Of course, you must remember that I'm both a dealer tech and I've been doing
this for many years. People only ever pay me to disassemble things once....
(and here comes the sarcastic dig) - however, there are those here that feel
doing something right and doing it only once are something to be avoided if
we can save a nickel and enjoy the project many times over. Perhaps one of
these kind folks could step up to the plate and let us both know the ideal
spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a crack at wailing on it
with a hammer....



  #3  
Old October 7th 07, 09:16 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
Beryl[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Jim Warman wrote:

> First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the control-trac
> system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive chain can be
> checked for "slop" without removing or disassembling the transfer case....
> Place the system in 4LOW to lock the transfer case.... With the car in park,
> raise the front wheels clear of the ground (use jack stands, of course) and
> rotate the driveshaft to the front diff back and forth.... This is a bit of
> an "acquired taste" and there is no real spec other than sound judgement -
> Usually (memory thing here) I see anywhere up to almost 1/8th turn of the
> shaft in a good T-case.... I believe that you will see well over 1/4 turn
> before things are loose enough for the chain to skip over the sprockets
> under heavy torque....
>
> Having said that, once you get the T-case on the bench, you will need a 30mm
> socket and a pair of lock ring pliers ( similar to these
> http://www.stridetool.com/tools/reta...pliers_06.html ) at the
> very least. This will be about a 7 on a scale of one to ten......
>
> Remove the front output flange nut first before splitting the case.... Also,
> to remove the shift motor, the electrical connector will need to be
> partially disassembled - this is not a difficult step but it is too easy to
> break plastic parts.... There is a plastic retainer clip inside the
> connector that is removed with needlenose pliers.... look closely inside the
> connector and you will see a little plastic tang holding the wire connection
> in place... using a seal pick or straightened out paper clip, gently pry
> that tang away from the wire and pull the wire fom the connector. I think
> you will be removing more that one wire so be sure to note the
> colour/location of each wire.
>
> Once you separate the case halves, the rest should be fairly apparent. Work
> with purpose - taking digital photos as you progress can help. There are
> three balls on a cam ring located between the clutch housing (the one the
> electric clutch coil reacts with) and the clutch pack - do not let these
> balls "escape". Once you get the clutch pack out, the drive sprocket, chain
> and front output shaft lift out as a group. Now is a good time to inspect
> the clutch pack friction members.... and replace is necessary - look for any
> discolouration that might indicate overheat and look for abnormal wear
> patterns.
>
> Carefully inspect the drive and driven sprockets for wear.... The teeth on
> the sprockets should be smooth. If these show distinct wear patterns, the
> transfer case may be noisy or this wear may affect the service life of the
> new chain....
>
> Now you are this far into it, this would be the ideal time to clean or
> replace the oil pump pick up screen, inspect and clean the magnet and
> inspect (or, if a hi-miler, even consider replacing) the oil pump..... There
> is a locating or "anti spin" lug on the oil pump that engages a boss on the
> inside of the front case half.... I don't recall seeing concerns with the
> 4404/4405 cases but I have seen the lug on the oil pump wear right through
> the boss inside the case on some transfer cases (usually F150, IIRC).
>
> Considering the scope of the project and the chances for things to go not
> quite as smoothly as planned, this may be an good opportunity to try a one
> use subscription at
> http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...&menuIndex1=41
> or similar.
>
> Of course, you must remember that I'm both a dealer tech and I've been doing
> this for many years. People only ever pay me to disassemble things once....
> (and here comes the sarcastic dig) - however, there are those here that feel
> doing something right and doing it only once are something to be avoided if
> we can save a nickel and enjoy the project many times over. Perhaps one of
> these kind folks could step up to the plate and let us both know the ideal
> spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a crack at wailing on it
> with a hammer....


Or we might pretend that thought and ingenuity are the same as running
over something.
  #4  
Old October 8th 07, 02:43 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
John Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Jim, thanks for the reply. My case is an AWD case, no 4 low or engage motor
involved. I think the repair would be similar, and if I do it I will get
the manual. I'm not sure its the chain I hear now though as I have posted
in a few other forums and gotten different theories. I'd be interested to
hear your diagnosis of this noise. It's a clicking noise when I go straight
slowly, and more like a grinding or growling noise as I turn a tight radius
slowly, and has gotten worse of the years. At highway speeds I don't hear
anything. I replaced the CV joints / axles, because some people were "sure"
that was the problem but the noise persists. Now, I had someone suggest I
remove the drive shaft, which I did, and the noise goes away. With the
drive shaft on the bench, all the universals "seem" to be free and smooth.
If one was binding, I would think I found the problem. A rebuilt drive
shaft is about $200. I already replaced the front axles, seemingly for
nothing. I don't mind making either repair, the T-case ot the drive shaft.
I just want to make the right repair this time. Any thoughts on this are
appreciated.

Bill



"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:ne8Oi.12977$JA3.9342@edtnps89...
> First - a word of caution... Some electrical concerns with the
> control-trac system can be mistaken as a "loose chain" concern. The drive
> chain can be checked for "slop" without removing or disassembling the
> transfer case.... Place the system in 4LOW to lock the transfer case....
> With the car in park, raise the front wheels clear of the ground (use jack
> stands, of course) and rotate the driveshaft to the front diff back and
> forth.... This is a bit of an "acquired taste" and there is no real spec
> other than sound judgement - Usually (memory thing here) I see anywhere up
> to almost 1/8th turn of the shaft in a good T-case.... I believe that you
> will see well over 1/4 turn before things are loose enough for the chain
> to skip over the sprockets under heavy torque....
>
> Having said that, once you get the T-case on the bench, you will need a
> 30mm socket and a pair of lock ring pliers ( similar to these
> http://www.stridetool.com/tools/reta...pliers_06.html ) at
> the very least. This will be about a 7 on a scale of one to ten......
>
> Remove the front output flange nut first before splitting the case....
> Also, to remove the shift motor, the electrical connector will need to be
> partially disassembled - this is not a difficult step but it is too easy
> to break plastic parts.... There is a plastic retainer clip inside the
> connector that is removed with needlenose pliers.... look closely inside
> the connector and you will see a little plastic tang holding the wire
> connection in place... using a seal pick or straightened out paper clip,
> gently pry that tang away from the wire and pull the wire fom the
> connector. I think you will be removing more that one wire so be sure to
> note the colour/location of each wire.
>
> Once you separate the case halves, the rest should be fairly apparent.
> Work with purpose - taking digital photos as you progress can help. There
> are three balls on a cam ring located between the clutch housing (the one
> the electric clutch coil reacts with) and the clutch pack - do not let
> these balls "escape". Once you get the clutch pack out, the drive
> sprocket, chain and front output shaft lift out as a group. Now is a good
> time to inspect the clutch pack friction members.... and replace is
> necessary - look for any discolouration that might indicate overheat and
> look for abnormal wear patterns.
>
> Carefully inspect the drive and driven sprockets for wear.... The teeth on
> the sprockets should be smooth. If these show distinct wear patterns, the
> transfer case may be noisy or this wear may affect the service life of the
> new chain....
>
> Now you are this far into it, this would be the ideal time to clean or
> replace the oil pump pick up screen, inspect and clean the magnet and
> inspect (or, if a hi-miler, even consider replacing) the oil pump.....
> There is a locating or "anti spin" lug on the oil pump that engages a boss
> on the inside of the front case half.... I don't recall seeing concerns
> with the 4404/4405 cases but I have seen the lug on the oil pump wear
> right through the boss inside the case on some transfer cases (usually
> F150, IIRC).
>
> Considering the scope of the project and the chances for things to go not
> quite as smoothly as planned, this may be an good opportunity to try a one
> use subscription at
> http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...&menuIndex1=41
> or similar.
>
> Of course, you must remember that I'm both a dealer tech and I've been
> doing this for many years. People only ever pay me to disassemble things
> once.... (and here comes the sarcastic dig) - however, there are those
> here that feel doing something right and doing it only once are something
> to be avoided if we can save a nickel and enjoy the project many times
> over. Perhaps one of these kind folks could step up to the plate and let
> us both know the ideal spot on your T-case and we can let everyone have a
> crack at wailing on it with a hammer....
>
>
>



  #5  
Old October 8th 07, 05:52 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
Jim Warman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 630
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

OK... for some reason I had A4WD stuck in my head..... and, for some reason,
I had to go to the 97 WSM (workshop manual) to find your transfer case...
This is good only in the sense that there doesn't appear to be a front
output flange nut.... (You can tell we don't see this system in our area).

Removing the front driveshaft isn't going to reveal much.... with this shaft
out of the picture, a lot of components are no longer transmitting torque
and this "relaxing" effect will likely keep the faulty component(s) from
complaining loudly enough to be heard....

With the parts you have already replaced and the thought that you are
considering a driveshaft, I'm left to wonder if the noise is, indeed, from
the transfer case or from another source.... operating the vehicle on a
hoist *may* reveal the source but it is more likely that you may be left to
find a shop that has a set of "chassis ears".... This is a group of
microphones that are clamped to suspect components or areas - the operator
can toggle between the microphones to localize sounds. In this way, it
should be possibly too positively identify the transfer case as the culprit
or not....

I realize that this isn't much help but this transfer case is quite a
departure from any others that I normally see (including a planetary gearset
even though it isn't used for the usual HI/LO range shift - yes, it does
have a chain).

I did briefly scan through TSBs without noticing anything.... If you'd care
to PM me your VIN, I can run OASIS on this concern for you....



  #6  
Old October 8th 07, 01:46 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
John Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Jim. Thanks again for the reply. With some further research I have
discovered that my drive shaft is one of the early double cardon type, with
u-joints rather than a CV joint, meaning it is realtivly cheap and easy to
eliminate as the source of the noise. I understand that with the shaft out
of the picture other components will act differently. Knowing that the
U-jionts seem smooth and unbound with the shaft out of the car, do you think
that THEY would act that much differntly with torqe applied? I am going to
try the U-joints. Just wanted your opinion.

Thanks


"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:vIiOi.14624$JA3.7135@edtnps89...
> OK... for some reason I had A4WD stuck in my head..... and, for some
> reason, I had to go to the 97 WSM (workshop manual) to find your transfer
> case... This is good only in the sense that there doesn't appear to be a
> front output flange nut.... (You can tell we don't see this system in our
> area).
>
> Removing the front driveshaft isn't going to reveal much.... with this
> shaft out of the picture, a lot of components are no longer transmitting
> torque and this "relaxing" effect will likely keep the faulty component(s)
> from complaining loudly enough to be heard....
>
> With the parts you have already replaced and the thought that you are
> considering a driveshaft, I'm left to wonder if the noise is, indeed, from
> the transfer case or from another source.... operating the vehicle on a
> hoist *may* reveal the source but it is more likely that you may be left
> to find a shop that has a set of "chassis ears".... This is a group of
> microphones that are clamped to suspect components or areas - the operator
> can toggle between the microphones to localize sounds. In this way, it
> should be possibly too positively identify the transfer case as the
> culprit or not....
>
> I realize that this isn't much help but this transfer case is quite a
> departure from any others that I normally see (including a planetary
> gearset even though it isn't used for the usual HI/LO range shift - yes,
> it does have a chain).
>
> I did briefly scan through TSBs without noticing anything.... If you'd
> care to PM me your VIN, I can run OASIS on this concern for you....
>
>
>



  #7  
Old October 8th 07, 03:39 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
Jim Warman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 630
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Might be getting somewhere.... the double cardan type U-joints use a
centering ball between the two cross and cap joints... these can develop
wear that can make all manner of noise with no real obvious vibration.

With the shaft off the car, move the joint through it's full range of
motion.... there should be a slight resistance build as the joint approaches
the straight position and the joint should have smooth action. With the
shaft installed in the vehicle, grasp the shaft next to the U-joint ass'y
and move it up and down (can take quite a bit of force) - there should be no
play at all.

If this joint has play, you will probably need to look to the aftermarket
suppliers for parts since Ford doesn't appear to stock or supply any
centering ball kits. Plan on replacing the associated U-joints at the same
time. When reassembling the joint, be very careful not to "cross up" a
bearing cap needle - I've repaired manyu of these style joints over the
years and there is still the odd one that tries to be as frustrating as it
possibly can. If your local auto parts store has a C clamp type ball joint
press for loan or rent, the C clamp can be used alone to aid in
removing/installing the U-joints.

HTH


  #8  
Old October 10th 07, 08:53 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
Jim Warman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 630
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Bill, I thank you and jrchilds (and anyone else, for that matter) for the
words of encouragement....

Truth of the matter is that I am a crusty old curmudgeon.... I work in a
dealership with a door rate in excess of $100/hour... For that kind of
faloose, customers don't expect back yard repairs - nor will they condone
them.... Hence the schism between "done right" and "done cheap". If I tell a
customer "but I might be able to save you some money if....", they look at
me like a grew a third eye.

Mainstream customers (and wise DIYers) would rather address a concern
once... get it over and done with, so to speak, without leaving themselves
open to repeat concerns or even inconvenience from having a cavalier repair
leave them stranded. If I don't fix it right this week, there's a good
chance I'll fix it for free next week.... For the DIYer, the feeling may
vary..... up until some poor slob is outside, in the rain, at 0dark thirty,
wondering if he will have to take the bus to work in the morning (from
experience, this new breed of cat figures that strolling in to work at 8:15
is "on time").

There's a lot of things we can do to postpone the inevitable, but at some
point in time, we will bite the bullet and do what is necessary.,...

Something I often explain to people.... "It is the car deciding how much the
repair will cost..... I am only the messenger...".

Thanks again..... but, I do like to make "sport" of some nay-sayers....



  #9  
Old October 18th 07, 05:49 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
John Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default replacing the transfer case chain?

Jim, I hope you're still following this thread. I took some of your earlier
advice and put the car on a lift with the car in gear. I had someone in the
car apply the brakes slightly to cause some drag on everything that's
spinning, and now that I'm under there and close to the source, I can tell
the sound is most defininatly coming from the transfer case. So now I'm
back to my original belief that the transfer case chain is stretched, or
something else is bad in the case. I have someone who can replace the chain
or rebuild the whole case. The rebuild kits I see online are the chain
(cheap), Vicious Clutch set (expensive), and a bearing and seal kit (I would
buy anyway). The car has 162,000 miles and otherwise runs great. I'm not
trying to keep it forever. I just want to get a few more 10,000s of miles
out of it. Since I put very few miles on it per year and have always
garaged the car, this could be years of service for me. Have you any
experience with what wears in these cases? I have one person telling me
it's the chain and only the chain. I have a dealer telling me it's the VC
set. I know logic would suggest to replace everything as long as the case
is open, but the one guy swears the chain is the only thing worn. So you
don't have to go back and re-read the thread, it's a BW 4404 full time AWD.
No hi/lo or engage device. It really a pretty simple t-case.

I was surprised when I came back to this thread that someone replied about
you being disrespected on this message board. I went back and read our
dialouge, and can think of no reason for that to have been replied to this
thread. I want to be on record that I respect your advice, and appreciate
that you give it. Autos are not my area of expertise, but I do contribute
to online forums about Home Automation. Also, whenever I use a forum for
advice, I come back and post the final resolution for the benefit of anyone
reading this thread in the future.

Thanks again



"Jim Warman" > wrote in message
news:HirOi.11501$%B2.9532@edtnps82...
> Might be getting somewhere.... the double cardan type U-joints use a
> centering ball between the two cross and cap joints... these can develop
> wear that can make all manner of noise with no real obvious vibration.
>
> With the shaft off the car, move the joint through it's full range of
> motion.... there should be a slight resistance build as the joint
> approaches the straight position and the joint should have smooth action.
> With the shaft installed in the vehicle, grasp the shaft next to the
> U-joint ass'y and move it up and down (can take quite a bit of force) -
> there should be no play at all.
>
> If this joint has play, you will probably need to look to the aftermarket
> suppliers for parts since Ford doesn't appear to stock or supply any
> centering ball kits. Plan on replacing the associated U-joints at the same
> time. When reassembling the joint, be very careful not to "cross up" a
> bearing cap needle - I've repaired manyu of these style joints over the
> years and there is still the odd one that tries to be as frustrating as it
> possibly can. If your local auto parts store has a C clamp type ball joint
> press for loan or rent, the C clamp can be used alone to aid in
> removing/installing the U-joints.
>
> HTH
>



  #10  
Old October 21st 07, 07:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer
Ulysses[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 112
Default replacing the transfer case chain?


"John Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Jim, I hope you're still following this thread. I took some of your

earlier
> advice and put the car on a lift with the car in gear. I had someone in

the
> car apply the brakes slightly to cause some drag on everything that's
> spinning, and now that I'm under there and close to the source, I can tell
> the sound is most defininatly coming from the transfer case. So now I'm
> back to my original belief that the transfer case chain is stretched, or
> something else is bad in the case. I have someone who can replace the

chain
> or rebuild the whole case. The rebuild kits I see online are the chain
> (cheap), Vicious Clutch set (expensive), and a bearing and seal kit (I

would
> buy anyway). The car has 162,000 miles and otherwise runs great. I'm not
> trying to keep it forever. I just want to get a few more 10,000s of miles
> out of it. Since I put very few miles on it per year and have always
> garaged the car, this could be years of service for me. Have you any
> experience with what wears in these cases? I have one person telling me
> it's the chain and only the chain. I have a dealer telling me it's the VC
> set. I know logic would suggest to replace everything as long as the case
> is open, but the one guy swears the chain is the only thing worn. So you
> don't have to go back and re-read the thread, it's a BW 4404 full time

AWD.
> No hi/lo or engage device. It really a pretty simple t-case.
>
> I was surprised when I came back to this thread that someone replied about
> you being disrespected on this message board. I went back and read our
> dialouge, and can think of no reason for that to have been replied to this
> thread. I want to be on record that I respect your advice, and appreciate
> that you give it. Autos are not my area of expertise, but I do contribute
> to online forums about Home Automation. Also, whenever I use a forum for
> advice, I come back and post the final resolution for the benefit of

anyone
> reading this thread in the future.
>
> Thanks again
>
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:HirOi.11501$%B2.9532@edtnps82...
> > Might be getting somewhere.... the double cardan type U-joints use a
> > centering ball between the two cross and cap joints... these can develop
> > wear that can make all manner of noise with no real obvious vibration.
> >
> > With the shaft off the car, move the joint through it's full range of
> > motion.... there should be a slight resistance build as the joint
> > approaches the straight position and the joint should have smooth

action.
> > With the shaft installed in the vehicle, grasp the shaft next to the
> > U-joint ass'y and move it up and down (can take quite a bit of force) -
> > there should be no play at all.
> >
> > If this joint has play, you will probably need to look to the

aftermarket
> > suppliers for parts since Ford doesn't appear to stock or supply any
> > centering ball kits. Plan on replacing the associated U-joints at the

same
> > time. When reassembling the joint, be very careful not to "cross up" a
> > bearing cap needle - I've repaired manyu of these style joints over the
> > years and there is still the odd one that tries to be as frustrating as

it
> > possibly can. If your local auto parts store has a C clamp type ball

joint
> > press for loan or rent, the C clamp can be used alone to aid in
> > removing/installing the U-joints.
> >
> > HTH
> >

>
>


In this NG you have mainly folks who have repaired their Explorers with
success and share that information. Some of us are expert mechanics (not
me), and some are shadetree mechanics. Then you have someone like Warman
who seems to find it amusing to call people stupid and goofy and such and
the only crime I can see that they commited was to ask how to fix their car.
I agree that Warman's post on the transfer case was a great post and a real
contribution to usenet. Meanwhile, I have managed to gather enough
information from this and other sources to keep my 'ol '91 running great.

Being the "shadetree" kind of mechanic I would tend to go for just replacing
the chain and seals if the clutch is really expensive and you have a
reliable source telling you it's just the chain. The transfer case is not
exactly easy to remove but not extremely difficult either. Since there have
been very few reports of transfer case problems (that I've read anyway) I
would tend to do the minimum required. If it doesn't work then you at least
have a real good idea what the problem might be.

Old posts have a tendancy to go unnoticed around here so you may want to
start a new one with your new question.

It would also be great if more people posted the results of their projects
so future googlers could find the solutions to their problems.


 




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