for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

That's why you leave the hood up...


On Mar 30, 3:48*pm, "M.M." > wrote:
> Then there's the risk that your wife will drive it to work in the
> morning, not knowing there's no oil in the engine...

When you get an extra 1/4 to 1/2 a quart out, I have to think so.


On Mar 30, 10:40*am, dr_jeff > wrote:
>
> Does that really matter?
>

If there are other pools of oil in the engine, why doesn't the oil
turn dark right away? What is the percentage difference between 5%
old oil left and 1%? Think it's 4%?


On Mar 30, 11:15*am, jim beam > wrote:
> > Does that really matter?
>
> of course not. *the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small..
> * and that's not including the fact that some engines have oil
> deliberately pooled in locations that don't drain - to protect cam
> shafts for instance. *new oil simply dilutes - unless the engine is
> completely stripped and cleaned, it's never a complete "change".

SMS wrote:

>
> If 3000 mile oil changes are "cheap insurance" why aren't they changing
> the oil every 1500 miles or every 750 miles, and buying as much of that
> cheap insurance as they can get?

So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question.

I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day.
Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't
their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out
their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too
often?
Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like
some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it
that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without
comment?

The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel
it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good
to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of
belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to
black engine oil?

-jim

On 03/31/2010 06:12 AM, jim wrote:
>
>
> SMS wrote:
>
>>
>> If 3000 mile oil changes are "cheap insurance" why aren't they changing
>> the oil every 1500 miles or every 750 miles, and buying as much of that
>> cheap insurance as they can get?
>
> So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question.
>
> I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day.
> Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't
> their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out
> their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too
> often?
> Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like
> some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it
> that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without
> comment?
>
> The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel
> it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good
> to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of
> belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to
> black engine oil?
>
> -jim


ooooh, "black oil" is evil!!!

dude, have you ever worked on diesels? those things have "black oil"
almost instantly. what then - change the oil every 500 miles? or are
you going to bother to bust open a can of brains, figure out what
matters based on research and learn that "black oil" doesn't mean a
damned thing?

here's how it works:
combustion produces, among other things, soot. soot is black. i'm sure
you're with me so far. but, oil lubrication in a car engine uses
something called "hydrodynamic separation". simply, that means the
metal bits in a car don't actually touch, they are separated by an oil
film. that oil film has a measurable thickness

http://www.answers.com/topic/lubrication-5

if your soot particles are small enough to "fit" in the hydrodynamic
film, the metals surfaces don't even know they're there. and that's the
job of the oil filter - to makes sure that the big particles are trapped
and only the harmless stuff flows through.

beyond that, if the oil is chemically and thermally stable, and has the
chemical ingredients to handle other combustion products like acid, and
the filter is working properly, "black oil" is actually an indication
that the oil is doing its job properly - it is holding everything in
suspension and continuing to flow.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4291579733/


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 03/31/2010 04:38 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<ZbmdnZW5tr6eSy_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@speakeasy .net>,
> jim > wrote:
>
>>> let me put it another way; you'd have to be an idiot to believe you
>>> can project the results from a year test on fleet vehicles to 10 years
>>> or more of normal passenger car use. not to mention folks in cold
>>> country are rightfully skeptical of tests conducted in CA.
>>
>> superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some
>> superstitious excuse.
>
> Just ask the folks who are holding their breaths to get on a jury for a
> Toyota lawsuit, so they can justify their superstition by awarding a
> huge settlement to people who are CLEARLY the victims of cosmic rays
> banging on their ECUs and gas pedals.

that cosmic ray story was a typical microsoft bull**** excuse for
writing crappy code. then came linux that didnt crash running on the
same machine and yet another bull**** ignorant superstition was exploded.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 03/31/2010 05:33 AM, Mark wrote:

> On Mar 30, 11:15�am, jim > wrote:
>>> Does that really matter?
>>
>> of course not. �the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small.
>> � and that's not including the fact that some engines have oil
>> deliberately pooled in locations that don't drain - to protect cam
>> shafts for instance. �new oil simply dilutes - unless the engine is
>> completely stripped and cleaned, it's never a complete "change".

<fixed top posting>

> If there are other pools of oil in the engine, why doesn't the oil
> turn dark right away? What is the percentage difference between 5%
> old oil left and 1%? Think it's 4%?
>
>

like i said - dilution.

suggest you go to a junk yard and look at a few engines with the rocker
cover removed - you'll see examples of these pooling features and the
camshafts that sit in them. honda d-series is one example.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 03/31/2010 05:31 AM, Mark wrote:

> On Mar 30, 10:40�am, > wrote:
>>
>> Does that really matter?
>>
<fixed top posting>

> When you get an extra 1/4 to 1/2 a quart out, I have to think so.
>
>

"think" not "know".


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

"jim" <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net> wrote:
> I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day.
> Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't
> their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out
> their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too
> often?

There are. Vaccuuming causes tons of problems (asthma in children, for
example). Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health problems.
People that constantly use those germ killing wipes are making themselves
sicker every day.

> Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like
> some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it
> that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without
> comment?

Are we now trying to demonize anyone that points out 'hey, that is a big
waste of money'?

> The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel
> it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good
> to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of
> belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to
> black engine oil?

People that want to reduce their country's dependence on foreign oil?
People that want the environment to be less poluted?
People that are just trying to give helpful financial advice?

Next up: irrational fear that someone will let out word that car wax isn't
really beneficial.

On 03/31/2010 06:48 AM, Obveeus wrote:
<snip for clarity>
> Next up: irrational fear that someone will let out word that car wax isn't
> really beneficial.

no ****. if you look at old cars with peeling topcoat, it's the ones
that have been waxed/polished that look like crap. cars with higher
roofs where owners typically can't reach, they may be oxidized, but
magically they don't have a peeling problem.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum