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156 start problems ?!



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 5th 04, 04:48 PM
Canonian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 156 start problems ?!

Hi,



Last week, for the 2nd time in a few months, my 156 didn't start at once.
The start motor was running, the distribution belt was running, no error
lights shown on display, but the engine didn't start.

I waited a few hours and tried again, but still with no result. Then I
decided to keep the start motor running with full throttle. After aprox. 5
seconds, the engine did come alive, very slowly. A few seconds later it was
running stationary. There after, each new start was performed without any
troubles.



Since the error is not reproducible, it is very hard to find the cause of
this mal functioning.

My car dealer checked the Motor management Computer, but there were no
errors logged. He had no idea what might cause this error.



Anybody any suggestion what the problem might be?

--
Berry

http://bere-design.tk


Ads
  #2  
Old December 5th 04, 06:28 PM
Alfistagj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sound like a bad earth or other electrical connection...........
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000) (soon: GT 2.0JTS)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)

"Canonian" > schreef in bericht
...
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Last week, for the 2nd time in a few months, my 156 didn't start at once.
> The start motor was running, the distribution belt was running, no error
> lights shown on display, but the engine didn't start.
>
> I waited a few hours and tried again, but still with no result. Then I
> decided to keep the start motor running with full throttle. After aprox. 5
> seconds, the engine did come alive, very slowly. A few seconds later it
> was
> running stationary. There after, each new start was performed without any
> troubles.
>
>
>
> Since the error is not reproducible, it is very hard to find the cause of
> this mal functioning.
>
> My car dealer checked the Motor management Computer, but there were no
> errors logged. He had no idea what might cause this error.
>
>
>
> Anybody any suggestion what the problem might be?
>
> --
> Berry
>
> http://bere-design.tk
>
>



  #3  
Old December 6th 04, 02:59 PM
Simon Mason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Canonian" > wrote in message
>
> I waited a few hours and tried again, but still with no result. Then I
> decided to keep the start motor running with full throttle. After aprox. 5
> seconds, the engine did come alive, very slowly. A few seconds later it
> was
> running stationary. There after, each new start was performed without any
> troubles.


Sounds like the spark plugs were wet with unburned fuel and no spark was
possible. By keeping the accelerator pedal on the floor while turning the
engine over, you added lots of air to the cylinders which dried out the
plugs and allowed you to start the engine.

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net


  #4  
Old December 6th 04, 03:58 PM
Canonian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of advanced
motor electronics.
Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can I do
to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this problem?

Barry

"Simon Mason" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> "Canonian" > wrote in message
> >
> > I waited a few hours and tried again, but still with no result. Then I
> > decided to keep the start motor running with full throttle. After aprox.

5
> > seconds, the engine did come alive, very slowly. A few seconds later it
> > was
> > running stationary. There after, each new start was performed without

any
> > troubles.

>
> Sounds like the spark plugs were wet with unburned fuel and no spark was
> possible. By keeping the accelerator pedal on the floor while turning the
> engine over, you added lots of air to the cylinders which dried out the
> plugs and allowed you to start the engine.
>
> --
> Simon Mason
> Anlaby
> East Yorkshire.
> 53°44'N 0°26'W
> http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
>
>



  #5  
Old December 6th 04, 04:36 PM
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Canonian wrote:

> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
> didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of
> advanced motor electronics.
> Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can I
> do to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
> If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this problem?


I suspect that this is not actually the problem. As you surmise, modern
electronics should prevent this from happening, but if it did, I'd think
there was some kind of sensor fault, either low RPM or cold start.




--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #6  
Old December 6th 04, 04:39 PM
Simon Mason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Canonian" > wrote in message
...
> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
> didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of
> advanced
> motor electronics.
> Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can I
> do
> to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
> If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this problem?


I agree it shouldn't happen now, but maybe if you revved your engine and
immediately turned the engine off, this would have left some unburnt fuel in
the cylinders. The fuel management system cannot do anything about this if
the engine is off. Just an idea.

--
Simon M.


  #7  
Old December 6th 04, 05:05 PM
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Simon Mason wrote:

>
> "Canonian" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
>> didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of
>> advanced
>> motor electronics.
>> Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can I
>> do
>> to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
>> If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this
>> problem?

>
> I agree it shouldn't happen now, but maybe if you revved your engine and
> immediately turned the engine off, this would have left some unburnt fuel
> in the cylinders. The fuel management system cannot do anything about this
> if the engine is off. Just an idea.


It is certainly a possibility. I know it does happen with the old V6s, but
I'd hope that things had advanced a bit since then
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #8  
Old December 6th 04, 06:53 PM
Canonian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well gents, the only possible thing that might had happened (but I am not
totaly sure about that), is that prior to the described malfunctioning, I
started the car to drive it 8 meters further (in front of my garagbox into
my garagebox), and stopped it. So, a short (~6s) run of the engine was
executed prior to the described mal functioning, a few hours later. The
sparkplugs, btw, are brand new (changed 10 months ago, regular service issue
at 100.000km).

Barry


"Catman" > schreef in bericht
news
> Simon Mason wrote:
>
> >
> > "Canonian" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
> >> didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of
> >> advanced
> >> motor electronics.
> >> Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can

I
> >> do
> >> to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
> >> If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this
> >> problem?

> >
> > I agree it shouldn't happen now, but maybe if you revved your engine and
> > immediately turned the engine off, this would have left some unburnt

fuel
> > in the cylinders. The fuel management system cannot do anything about

this
> > if the engine is off. Just an idea.

>
> It is certainly a possibility. I know it does happen with the old V6s,

but
> I'd hope that things had advanced a bit since then
> --
> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk



  #9  
Old December 6th 04, 07:00 PM
Canonian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well gents, the only possible thing that might have happened (but I am not
sure about that), is that prior to the described malfunctioning, I
started the car to drive it 8 meters further (in front of my garage box into
my garage box), and stopped it. So, a short (~6s) run of the engine was
executed prior to the described mal functioning, a few hours later. The
sparkplugs, btw, are brand new (changed 10 months ago, regular service
at 100.000km).



??? Is starting the engine with full throttle still the best way to overcome
this problem,

or does a start with no throttle resolve the problem as well ???


Barry


"Catman" > schreef in bericht
news
> Simon Mason wrote:
>
> >
> > "Canonian" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
> >> didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of
> >> advanced
> >> motor electronics.
> >> Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can

I
> >> do
> >> to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
> >> If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this
> >> problem?

> >
> > I agree it shouldn't happen now, but maybe if you revved your engine and
> > immediately turned the engine off, this would have left some unburnt

fuel
> > in the cylinders. The fuel management system cannot do anything about

this
> > if the engine is off. Just an idea.

>
> It is certainly a possibility. I know it does happen with the old V6s,

but
> I'd hope that things had advanced a bit since then
> --
> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk




  #10  
Old December 6th 04, 07:00 PM
Canonian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well gents, the only possible thing that might have happened (but I am not
sure about that), is that prior to the described malfunctioning, I
started the car to drive it 8 meters further (in front of my garage box into
my garage box), and stopped it. So, a short (~6s) run of the engine was
executed prior to the described mal functioning, a few hours later. The
sparkplugs, btw, are brand new (changed 10 months ago, regular service
at 100.000km).



??? Is starting the engine with full throttle still the best way to overcome
this problem,

or does a start with no throttle resolve the problem as well ???


Barry


"Catman" > schreef in bericht
news
> Simon Mason wrote:
>
> >
> > "Canonian" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hmmm, sounds reasonable. I know the scenario from back in the 80's and
> >> didn't expect to be a possible scenario these days, with the use of
> >> advanced
> >> motor electronics.
> >> Any suggestions how I got into this situation, in other words, what can

I
> >> do
> >> to prevent my sparkplugs being drowned with fuel?
> >> If this is the case, is there another practical way to solve this
> >> problem?

> >
> > I agree it shouldn't happen now, but maybe if you revved your engine and
> > immediately turned the engine off, this would have left some unburnt

fuel
> > in the cylinders. The fuel management system cannot do anything about

this
> > if the engine is off. Just an idea.

>
> It is certainly a possibility. I know it does happen with the old V6s,

but
> I'd hope that things had advanced a bit since then
> --
> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk




 




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