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I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can they do it?)



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 2nd 17, 06:54 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
Ed Pawlowski
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Posts: 202
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 4/2/2017 1:08 PM, Jonas Schneider wrote:

>
> Certainly higher-quality food, for example, would be in demand, but, it's
> well known in the grocery business that when fruits and vegetables are
> plentiful, the price goes down and the quality goes up.
>
> When it's off season, or if there was a drought, the price goes up and the
> quality goes down.


Chicken wings used to be cheap. I remember years ago buying a 5 pound
bag for a quarter. Yes, 5 cents a pound or in today's money, about 36
cents a pound. Since becoming popular they are selling for about $2,50
a pound. For dinner tonight I'm making thighs on sale for 99 cents.



> Is it just me, or do we get fewer flats nowadays?
> I remember, as a kid, that I got flats in my bias-ply tires rather
> frequently. Now I only get about one or two flats a year.


Far fewer flats. Less destructive too, in a sense. Seems they lose air
slower so that nail may be in there and give you a day or two hint you
have a problem. (assuming you look at the tires once in a while) Goes
low slow so you can drive to a place to take care of it instead of in
the dark on the highway.


> Now we get to the point of deciding how to buy a tire!
> What matters is what matters to you.


>
> My selection process is as easy as simple math, but my purely logical
> selection process requires technical knowledge sufficient to understand the
> specs printed on the sidewall of every tire.
>
> I didn't look at the sidewall specs of all those tires, but my process
> would be the same with choosing your tire as with choosing mine.
>
> A. There are no absolutes when tradeoffs are involved, but generally:
> 1. I would compare everything against the OEM tire spec!
> 2. That is, any tire that meets OEM specs goes on the short list.
> 3. And any tire that fails any of the OEM specs, is tossed out.
>
> B. Then I would rate highest what I care about most.
> 1. If that is wet traction, then I'd put the AA tires on top.
> 2. But if that was treadwear, I'd put the 500s above the 100s.
> 3. If it was price, then the cheapest OEM-spec tire would be on top.
>
> One by one, I'd rank the tires in the order of the specs I care about.
> Assuming it was wettraction/treadwear/price, then I would rank like this:
>


Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I'll be looking for tires
in the fall and will use that process. In the past, snow was a factor,
but now that I'm retired, I may never intentionally drive in snow again.
Sure, it can happen but planning ahead eliminates 99% of it.

Ads
  #32  
Old April 2nd 17, 07:00 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
rbowman
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Posts: 159
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 04/02/2017 11:08 AM, Jonas Schneider wrote:
> Once you've whittled down the selection to tires that all meet or exceed
> the OEM specs, then you rank them in the order of trusted specification
> that you care about most.


The last set of tires I bought were Cooper CS5's. In part my choice was
determined by reviews by boy racers like this:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/coope...5-tire-review/

I did not chose the OEM tires, Bridgestone Potenza 92E's. While they
have acceptable performance on dry pavement, they are a low rolling
resistance design that helps Toyota with their fleet mileage statistics.
I had two Yaris's that came with the tires and wore them out in under
25,000 miles. I find that unacceptable for a lightweight vehicle.

I won't even start on my process for selecting bike tires, particularly
for my dual sport bike. For example, Dunlop D606's are great in mud but
howl like a banshee at 80 mph on pavement. Bridgestone Trailwings are
civilized on the pavement but only marginally better than any pure
street tire in the mud.

Even bicycle tires are not exempt. Want to know the rationale behind my
recent purchase of a set of Serfas Drifters?
  #33  
Old April 2nd 17, 07:13 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
AMuzi
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Posts: 488
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 4/2/2017 1:00 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/02/2017 11:08 AM, Jonas Schneider wrote:


> Even bicycle tires are not exempt. Want to know the
> rationale behind my recent purchase of a set of Serfas
> Drifters?


Here's a guess. You couldn't find a Michelin City tire.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #34  
Old April 2nd 17, 09:19 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
rbowman
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Posts: 159
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 04/02/2017 12:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/2/2017 1:00 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 04/02/2017 11:08 AM, Jonas Schneider wrote:

>
>> Even bicycle tires are not exempt. Want to know the
>> rationale behind my recent purchase of a set of Serfas
>> Drifters?

>
> Here's a guess. You couldn't find a Michelin City tire.
>


Not in 26" at the local REI, just 27". The tires I replaced were
Continental Town & Country. They were my favorites years ago but then I
couldn't find them. They reappeared so I got a set. Meanwhile,
Continental had switched production to India or China. I bought them in
June of 2015. As I pumped them up to 65 psi this spring, I heard an odd,
tearing noise. It was the sidewall cords ripping apart. Looking on the
forums, early sidewall failure is common with the new manufacture. So
much for T&C.

Before the Contis I'd been running Ritchey Tom Slicks. They'll take a
higher pressure and are faster but I found them to be high maintenance.
I'll see how the Serfas do. At least running 65 psi instead of 90
softens some of the bumps and I'm not racing.

My other Mtn bike has knobbies and when I do ride on pavement it seems
like a lot of work compared to the slicks or inverted tread.


  #35  
Old April 2nd 17, 10:19 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
The Real Bev[_5_]
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Posts: 570
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 04/02/2017 10:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/2/2017 1:08 PM, Jonas Schneider wrote:


>> My selection process is as easy as simple math, but my purely logical
>> selection process requires technical knowledge sufficient to understand the
>> specs printed on the sidewall of every tire.
>>
>> I didn't look at the sidewall specs of all those tires, but my process
>> would be the same with choosing your tire as with choosing mine.
>>
>> A. There are no absolutes when tradeoffs are involved, but generally:
>> 1. I would compare everything against the OEM tire spec!
>> 2. That is, any tire that meets OEM specs goes on the short list.
>> 3. And any tire that fails any of the OEM specs, is tossed out.
>>
>> B. Then I would rate highest what I care about most.
>> 1. If that is wet traction, then I'd put the AA tires on top.
>> 2. But if that was treadwear, I'd put the 500s above the 100s.
>> 3. If it was price, then the cheapest OEM-spec tire would be on top.
>>
>> One by one, I'd rank the tires in the order of the specs I care about.
>> Assuming it was wettraction/treadwear/price, then I would rank like this:
>>

>
> Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I'll be looking for tires
> in the fall and will use that process. In the past, snow was a factor,
> but now that I'm retired, I may never intentionally drive in snow again.
> Sure, it can happen but planning ahead eliminates 99% of it.


When I was reading about this stuff I couldn't find out anything about
DRY traction, which is what we mostly need in SoCal. Can treadwear
approximate this? The softer the tire the better the traction but the
shorter the lifetime?


--
Cheers, Bev
Judges are our only protection against a legal system that can
afford lots more prosecution than we can afford defense.
  #36  
Old April 2nd 17, 10:33 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 488
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 4/2/2017 3:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 04/02/2017 12:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 4/2/2017 1:00 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 04/02/2017 11:08 AM, Jonas Schneider wrote:

>>
>>> Even bicycle tires are not exempt. Want to know the
>>> rationale behind my recent purchase of a set of Serfas
>>> Drifters?

>>
>> Here's a guess. You couldn't find a Michelin City tire.
>>

>
> Not in 26" at the local REI, just 27". The tires I replaced
> were Continental Town & Country. They were my favorites
> years ago but then I couldn't find them. They reappeared so
> I got a set. Meanwhile, Continental had switched production
> to India or China. I bought them in June of 2015. As I
> pumped them up to 65 psi this spring, I heard an odd,
> tearing noise. It was the sidewall cords ripping apart.
> Looking on the forums, early sidewall failure is common with
> the new manufacture. So much for T&C.
>
> Before the Contis I'd been running Ritchey Tom Slicks.
> They'll take a higher pressure and are faster but I found
> them to be high maintenance. I'll see how the Serfas do. At
> least running 65 psi instead of 90 softens some of the bumps
> and I'm not racing.
>
> My other Mtn bike has knobbies and when I do ride on
> pavement it seems like a lot of work compared to the slicks
> or inverted tread.
>
>


Agreed on the Ritchey. That's a Panaracer product; very
light, very fast, uniform, smooth ride. A fine weave fabric
but doesn't suffer abuse well. Different customer from a
Serfas or a Michelin.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #37  
Old April 3rd 17, 02:27 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
Jonas Schneider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can they do it?)

On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 12:00:14 -0600, rbowman > wrote:

> The last set of tires I bought were Cooper CS5's. In part my choice was
> determined by reviews by boy racers like this:
> http://www.motortrend.com/news/coope...5-tire-review/


Auurgh! Tire reviews.
Tire reviews are like people rating their mother's cooking.
Everyone is biased toward the tires *they* selected, while some can't stand
their mother, no matter what.

The market research I quoted earlier said that 60% of buyers want someone
else to choose their tires for them. To me, that's what reviews are for. So
some boy racer in a 1968 Camaro can tell you what you should put in your
Honda.

The problem with boy-racer reviews is that they're religion and politics
wrapped up in false buttmeter readings surrounded by marketing placebos.
Oh, and did I mention that there is absolutely zero instrumentation?

Did you ever watch a boy racer take a motorcycle drivers' license test?
Everyone one thinks he nailed it, and yet, with a dispassionate observer, a
huge proportion actually failed.

A guy spends six hundred bucks for tires, and then he writes a review about
it. The review is sort of like how the CIA rates dictators we prop up in
South America. Yeah, they're *******s, but they are "our *******s".

Anyway, with that in mind, let's read that review:
COOPER TIRE CS5 TIRE REVIEW
http://www.motortrend.com/news/coope...5-tire-review/

This is getting long so I'll post my observations of that review
separately.

> I did not chose the OEM tires, Bridgestone Potenza 92E's.


You probably do what most people do, including me.
The market research I quoted said that most people choose OE tires early in
the life of the vehicle, where they stray further and further away as the
vehicle ages.

> I won't even start on my process for selecting bike tires, particularly
> for my dual sport bike. For example, Dunlop D606's are great in mud but
> howl like a banshee at 80 mph on pavement. Bridgestone Trailwings are
> civilized on the pavement but only marginally better than any pure
> street tire in the mud.


I'm not sure how motorcycle tires differ from passenger-car tires, as it
has been a while since I have ridden myself. Last ones I bought I mounted
myself though, and didn't bother to balance them.

> Even bicycle tires are not exempt. Want to know the rationale behind my
> recent purchase of a set of Serfas Drifters?


The problem I have with bicycle tires is that the specs aren't known, so,
you're stuck with lousy data to make a decision upon.
  #38  
Old April 3rd 17, 03:07 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
Jonas Schneider
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Posts: 20
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can they do it?)

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 01:27:54 +0000 (UTC), Jonas Schneider
> wrote:

> Anyway, with that in mind, let's read that review:
> COOPER TIRE CS5 TIRE REVIEW
> http://www.motortrend.com/news/coope...5-tire-review/


Here are my impressions as I read that specific review:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/coope...5-tire-review/

* It's Motor Trend, so, the good is that it's not some kid in a Camaro.
* It's Motor Trend which I respect less than I do Car & Driver.
* But it's a professional outfit - so they should be ok (let's see).
----------
* They shill for Cooper Tires, which all the mags tend to do
* They went to San Antonio, which is the correct place to go in the USA
* Apparently they only tested Cooper CS5 Grand Touring & Ultra Touring
----------
* The bad news is that this is gonna only be about very few tires
* So how do we use that data to compare with the thirty other tires?
* The answer is that we can't - but let's keep reading.
----------
* Yikes. What kind of test are they running? The validity is crazy.
* Car A1 is a Ford Mustang fitted with Hankook Optimo H727 touring tires
* Car A2 is fitted with Cooper CS5 Grand Touring tires
* Car A3 is fitted with Cooper CSS Ultra Touring tires
* Car B1 is a Corvette driven by an Indy legend running Cooper Zeon RS3-A
tires. (WTF?)
----------
* Then they give us the obligatory marketing bs about silica & siping
* Then they describe the skidpad, which is a large lake of wet asphalt
----------
* The author takes the A1 Mustang with Hankook's and gets a "feel".
* Then he takes the A1 Mustang with Cooper CS5 Grand Touring tires.
* Surprise surprise. With the Cooper marketing guys paying for everything,
the author notices a "higher threshold of grip". Ummm... ok.
* The only measurement they made was the author's lap time, which, of
course, wasn't corrected for his experience increasing with the course.
* Then we hear the obligatory non-measured marketing bull**** about
"pregoressive" and "communication", all of which is boy-racer talk
(especially keeping in mind that Cooper is paying the tab).
----------
* OK. One complete bull**** test finished, where they didn't measure
anything meaningful, and they corrected for nothing, and yet, surprise
surprise, the test that the Cooper marketing guys designed from start to
finish shows that the marketing guys' test "showed how well the tires may
handle".
Sheesh. I just wasted my time, but I plod onward.
----------
* Now we're on a dry autocross on the Hankook tires.
* Surprise surprise. The marketing guys designed a test where "the story is
much the same". I'm shocked. Shocked I say. Shocked.
* This article reminds me of what a rag MT is, but let's look at this
objectively.
----------
* Lo and behold, the Mustang with the Cooper tires was "able to carry a
higher speed through teh corners with more driver confidence".
* What complete bull**** again.
* Again, nothing was tested except speed, which wasn't corrected for with
the driver gaining experience in the second run.
* Where are the placebo tires, by the way?
* What? Placebos? We don't do no stinking placebos in Marketing tests!
* Where are the corrections for experience?
* We don't do no stinking corrections.
* Where are the measurements?
* What? We don't report no stinking measurements.
----------
* I'm still plodding through, but this article is complete bull****.
* Even if it wasn't complete bull****, it still wouldn't prove anything
other than the stated Coopers might be better for a couple of things than
the stated Hancooks on a Mustang driven the way the marketing guys want you
to drive it.
----------
* Now it's lunch time.
* After lunch ... huh? Now we move to a BMW 328i? WTF?
* Nobody mentioned this BMW before. Oh well, it's a Marketing game.
* We're supposed to assume a small bimmer is impressive with Pirelli's I
guess.
----------
* Now they take the tiny bimmer on the Pirelli Cinturato P7 tires
* Then, same bull**** test, but with the Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring tires.
----------
* They play up the Pirellis, of course, (this is marketing, after all).
* Better to beat a better tire, don't you think?
* Anyway, even they admit it's not an "apples to apples" test when they say
the bimmer went faster than the Mustang did.
* This is really getting tedious with all the bull****.
----------
* OH my. The Pirelli was "much more communicative".
* Did they measure anything other than track speed yet.
* Nope. WHy would they. This isn't really a tire test after all.
----------
* Tediously, we get to the final test (I hope).
* Lo and behold, the "drive was more confident" with the final set of
tires.
* No measurements again, so, I call bull**** on the test again.
----------
* Back to the wet autocross with the bimmer on Pirellis.
* Lo and behold, the Marketing selected tires "returned the most confident
laps" (which were always the last laps, of course).
----------
* I love the next statement.
* "The best lap times were set with the cooper tires"
* Duh. It was always the last lap in a complex loop which the author
himself said it took getting used to. (them's marketing guys is no fools!)
----------
* For some reason, we now segue into Unser driving them around in a
Corvette. WTF?
----------
* Then we summarize by *repeating* the obligatory marketing bull**** about
silica and sipes, complete with brand names for the wear bars.
* I didn't know wear bars had brand names!
* Look at that, the tires have "durable uniform construction".
* The marketing guys must have ****ed in their pants hearing that.
* Woo hoo! "StabilEdge technology" (hint - those are the sipes, I guess).
* Lots of marketing bull**** in that paragraph - but let's move on.
----------
* Oh Jesus. More marketing bull**** about the "wear square".
* (As if it's rocket science to know when a tire is worn.)
----------
* Oh ****. Another paragraph of marketing bull****, this time for the third
time they cover "StabilEdge" bumps between the tire grooves.
* Does this bull**** never end?
----------
* Now they discuss the asymetrical tread - as if that's a big deal.
* They discuss the benefits to rotation ... which is ok stuff.
----------
* Now comes the great Marketing Conclusion.
* Guess what?
* Cooper is better than Hankook and Pirelli!
* Yup. There it is. A ****ty test but a great blanket statement>
=----------
* Guess what! "Cooper *dominated* these tests! Yup. Surprise surprise.
* Thank God that was the end.
----------

Overall, if you haven't guessed my reaction yet, they proved absolutely
nothing, and they tested almost absolutely nothing, and they certainly
measured only one thing and they didn't even report that measurement.

This was worse than a boy-racer review because it wasted everyone's time
except the marketing guys' budget at Cooper.
*
  #39  
Old April 3rd 17, 04:56 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
rbowman
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Posts: 159
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 04/02/2017 07:27 PM, Jonas Schneider wrote:
> Auurgh! Tire reviews.
> Tire reviews are like people rating their mother's cooking.
> Everyone is biased toward the tires *they* selected, while some can't stand
> their mother, no matter what.


Then you might as well blindfold yourself and throw darts at the wall.

> A guy spends six hundred bucks for tires, and then he writes a review about
> it. The review is sort of like how the CIA rates dictators we prop up in
> South America. Yeah, they're *******s, but they are "our *******s".


I doubt the Motor Trend writer is paying for many tires out of his own
pocket. Possibly he's getting paid under the table by Cooper but is that
worth slagging a couple of other brands that he found inferior?

The must have bought the topspeed author a few beers too:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/cooper-...3761.html#main

But, like the guy said, buying tires is boring. Not sucking completely
is the main criteria.


>> > I did not chose the OEM tires, Bridgestone Potenza 92E's.

> You probably do what most people do, including me.
> The market research I quoted said that most people choose OE tires early in
> the life of the vehicle, where they stray further and further away as the
> vehicle ages.


The Bridgestones on the first Yaris were worn and I planned to replace
them in the spring with some other brand. However, the Yaris did not
survive a head on collision with a snow plow. The second Yaris came with
the same tires, which I replaced with Coopers when they wore out. The
92E's are not bad for ride quality, noise, and traction but the tread
life sucks and they're quite expensive when you're not Toyota buying
them by the boatload.

>
>> > I won't even start on my process for selecting bike tires, particularly
>> > for my dual sport bike. For example, Dunlop D606's are great in mud but
>> > howl like a banshee at 80 mph on pavement. Bridgestone Trailwings are
>> > civilized on the pavement but only marginally better than any pure
>> > street tire in the mud.

> I'm not sure how motorcycle tires differ from passenger-car tires, as it
> has been a while since I have ridden myself. Last ones I bought I mounted
> myself though, and didn't bother to balance them.


These days motorcycle tires tend to be designed for specific ends.
Dunlop D401's, known as Dunrocks in some circles, have great life. I got
over 15,000 on the rear and replaced the front when i got sick of
looking at it. However performance suffers. I ran a couple sets of
Bridgestone Spitfires. Much better performance, but only about 7500
miles on the rear. You pays your money and you makes your choice. I'm
running Pirelli Routes on the Harley now. Decent performance and the
jury is out on the mileage. All the boy racers report 10 to 15k, so
that's better than the spitfires.

I've been through a few flavors with the DR650. I get about 5000 miles
on the rear with D606 which is more oriented to off-road, and around
7000 with the Trailwings, which are more on road. I'm running Kendas
now, less aggressive than the D606's and they'll go to about 6000. When
I need a front tire it will not be a Kenda. For whatever reason it's a
pain in the butt to seat the beads on the Kenda fronts. I do not balance
knobbies. I mean, how could you ever tell?

The V-Strom gets Michelin Anakee III's. Good grip, good life, and not
completely useless in the dirt if you're careful. After all, what good
is an adventure bike if you can't adventure.

The big difference with bikes other than you only have two tires under
you so you think a little more about what you're buying, is you're also
buying them a lot more frequently and unless you're in a mindless rut
can do your own comparisons.
  #40  
Old April 3rd 17, 05:10 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,ca.driving
rbowman
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Posts: 159
Default I used to buy tires from TireRack - now SimpleTire (how can theydo it?)

On 04/02/2017 08:07 PM, Jonas Schneider wrote:
> Overall, if you haven't guessed my reaction yet, they proved absolutely
> nothing, and they tested almost absolutely nothing, and they certainly
> measured only one thing and they didn't even report that measurement.


Okay, I get it. Every magazine writer is a complete asshole bought off
by the local friendly sales guy. Every civilian reviewer that laid out
$600 thinks whatever he bought is the greatest thing since sex. Nobody
publishes reliable data. The consumer is screwed. I'll go you one
better. A major chain in the western US, Les Schwab's, which I've bought
tires from, tends to sell tires with their own house models and brands.
I've bought tires from them, never had problems, and their service is
great, but good luck trying to find out anything about a 'Road Control
Touring A/S'.


 




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