From OP: Re Previous Oil Question

Hello,

Thanks for all of my previous post replies from you all.
Appreciate it very much. Great Forum.
All set now.

Just wondering about this a bit, so thought I'd ask also.

a. I know it is a no-no to mix "regular" oil with "Synthetic" oil.
I see that many of the offering say "Synthetic Blend"

Can this type be mixed with regular oil ?

b. How does "Synthetic-Blend" compare to "Synthetic" labeled oil ?
Differences, etc. ?

b. Do "most" of the new cars these days require Synthetic Oil ?

Thanks,
Bob

On 09/07/2013 07:34 AM, Bob wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for all of my previous post replies from you all.
> Appreciate it very much. Great Forum.
> All set now.
>
> Just wondering about this a bit, so thought I'd ask also.
>
> a. I know it is a no-no to mix "regular" oil with "Synthetic" oil.
> I see that many of the offering say "Synthetic Blend"
>
> Can this type be mixed with regular oil ?
>
> b. How does "Synthetic-Blend" compare to "Synthetic" labeled oil ?
> Differences, etc. ?
>
> b. Do "most" of the new cars these days require Synthetic Oil ?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob

1. the notion that synthetic and regular oil can't be mixed is
completely false. you "dilute" the benefits of "pure", but they're
perfectly compatible with each other.

2. there's not that much difference between the two these days. most
refiners have to go down the "synthetic" road to get to modern oil
viscosity, so what they call it is debatable.

3. actually, most "synthetic" these days is simply a highly refined
[isomerised] conventional oil. so what you're really paying for is the
quality of the additive package, which can vary greatly in quality.

4. if you want a "true" synthetic oil, go for some of the ester-based
options like motul or red line.


--
fact check required

Bob > wrote in :

> Hello,
>
> Thanks for all of my previous post replies from you all.
> Appreciate it very much. Great Forum.
> All set now.
>
> Just wondering about this a bit, so thought I'd ask also.
>
> a. I know it is a no-no to mix "regular" oil with "Synthetic" oil.



No it's not. The two are perfectly compatible.



> I see that many of the offering say "Synthetic Blend"
>
> Can this type be mixed with regular oil ?



"Synthetic blend" IS a mix of synthetic and mineral oil. You can
mix-and-match all you want.



>
> b. How does "Synthetic-Blend" compare to "Synthetic" labeled oil ?
> Differences, etc. ?



There is mineral oil in the "blend" stuff.


>
> b. Do "most" of the new cars these days require Synthetic Oil ?
>


All gasoline automobiles require specific viscosities and API ratings.
Provided those two criteria are met, it is immaterial whether the oil is
mineral or synthetic, or a blend of the two.


--
Tegger

On 09/07/2013 10:34 AM, Bob wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for all of my previous post replies from you all.
> Appreciate it very much. Great Forum.
> All set now.
>
> Just wondering about this a bit, so thought I'd ask also.
>
> a. I know it is a no-no to mix "regular" oil with "Synthetic" oil.
> I see that many of the offering say "Synthetic Blend"
>
> Can this type be mixed with regular oil ?

Yes, and you can mix regular dino squeezins with full synthetic too
although oil mfgrs. will tell you not to.

> b. How does "Synthetic-Blend" compare to "Synthetic" labeled oil ?
> Differences, etc. ?

Well, typically a true synthetic has better viscosity stability over a
wide temperature range than conventional, and also better resistance to
coking at high temperatures. So a synthetic blend will have some of the
same advantages, but not as much as a full synthetic.

> b. Do "most" of the new cars these days require Synthetic Oil ?

Depends on the car. Most European cars now do require a full synthetic
and not just "any" synthetic but one meeting a specific manufacturer
spec, and this has been true for over a decade now. So you have to read
the manual and see what that spec is (e.g. BMW LL-01 or LL-04, VW
502.00, etc.) and make sure that the oil you use meets that
specification. Usually Mobil 1 European Formula or German Castrol (sold
as "Castrol Edge" now I believe") meets most of those specs, but check
to make sure. In the case of BMW at least they have started to make
dealer pricing competitive on items like oil, brake pads, etc. so if you
have a dealership nearby it may actually be easier to just buy from the
dealership rather than trying to find a parts store that carries
suitable oil, contrary to what you may have been conditioned to expect
from years of overpriced dealer items.

GM has released their own specifications for motor oil recently called
"Dexos 1" and "Dexos 2" and they don't necessarily require synthetic,
but you have to read the label. The example I'm familiar with is
Valvoline, the regular old Valvoline does not meet Dexos 1 but most of
their other oils do (e.g. Maxlife, which isn't a synthetic.) I'm pretty
sure that at least in Valvoline world the only oil meeting Dexos 2 spec
is going to be a full synthetic.

I don't think that Ford specs require synthetic (yet) - I know Chrysler
just released a new spec for the 2013 MY and are recommending that oils
meeting that spec be used retroactively for all Chrysler produced
engines ever made, but I'm not familiar with what oils meet that spec.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel > wrote in
:

>
> Depends on the car. Most European cars now do require a full synthetic
> and not just "any" synthetic but one meeting a specific manufacturer
> spec, and this has been true for over a decade now.



Forgot about that.

The REAL answer to the OP's question is to RTFM: If your engine /requires/
full-synthetic, it will say so in there. If it does /not/ require full
synthetic, then you can put anything in there in any combination you wish,
provided the viscosity and the API ratings are correct. The manual may give
an oil-change interval, and it may also say that the interval is only valid
if a certain specific type of oil is used.

Those oddball Euro specs are primarily meant to operate with the extended
change-intervals that those Euro vehicles have. Extended change-intervals
are not compatible with non-synthetic oils.

I seem to remember Mercedes recently having to pay out a large sum of money
to settle litigation that resulted from just his issue. Apparently some
dealers were using oil that did not meet the correct MB specs, but people
were following the oil-change schedule as though the oil was MB-compliant.
Sludge was the result.


--
Tegger

On 09/08/2013 09:00 AM, Tegger wrote:
> Nate Nagel > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> Depends on the car. Most European cars now do require a full synthetic
>> and not just "any" synthetic but one meeting a specific manufacturer
>> spec, and this has been true for over a decade now.
>
>
>
> Forgot about that.
>
> The REAL answer to the OP's question is to RTFM: If your engine /requires/
> full-synthetic, it will say so in there. If it does /not/ require full
> synthetic, then you can put anything in there in any combination you wish,
> provided the viscosity and the API ratings are correct. The manual may give
> an oil-change interval, and it may also say that the interval is only valid
> if a certain specific type of oil is used.
>
> Those oddball Euro specs are primarily meant to operate with the extended
> change-intervals that those Euro vehicles have. Extended change-intervals
> are not compatible with non-synthetic oils.

Right - on the face of it you think they're being jerks for mandating
that you use $5/quart oil, but then again they are willing to warrant a
turbocharged engine for 14-15K mile OCIs, at least up until the factory
warranty runs out. So they must have faith in the oil.

I forgot to mention in my previous post, this is just my personal
opinion, but in any turbocharged engine I would use full synthetic as a
matter of course whether the manufacturer recommends it or not. The
turbo bearings get way hotter than any internal part of the engine, and
they heat soak when you shut the engine off. Coke in turbo bearings =
bad. Additionally, in any engine with any kind of variable valve timing
scheme (VTEC, VANOS, etc.) I would also consider running a full
synthetic, just to keep the inside of the engine spankin' clean, as at
least VANOS solenoids are known to get sticky requiring a decent amount
of labor to get to them, clean, reassemble.

Of course then again I'm running either Rotella or Delo full synthetic
in a Jeep 4.0 which is about as understressed an engine as you're going
to find, but still.

> I seem to remember Mercedes recently having to pay out a large sum of money
> to settle litigation that resulted from just his issue. Apparently some
> dealers were using oil that did not meet the correct MB specs, but people
> were following the oil-change schedule as though the oil was MB-compliant.
> Sludge was the result.
>

VW had an issue with that on the 1.8T engines as well about a decade
ago, and I always wondered if that was not the cause as well (dealership
oil changes done under "free services" being done with bulk 10W30 out of
the big tank)

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 9/8/2013 8:41 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> [...] Additionally, in any engine with any kind of variable valve timing
> scheme (VTEC, VANOS, etc.) I would also consider running a full
> synthetic, just to keep the inside of the engine spankin' clean, as at
> least VANOS solenoids are known to get sticky requiring a decent amount
> of labor to get to them, clean, reassemble.
>
I would not bother on something such as a Honda Civic with VTEC to use
synthetic - the rest of the car will be worn out before you need to open
up the engine.

--
T0m $herm@n

On 09/08/2013 08:47 AM, T0m $herman wrote:
> On 9/8/2013 8:41 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> [...] Additionally, in any engine with any kind of variable valve timing
>> scheme (VTEC, VANOS, etc.) I would also consider running a full
>> synthetic, just to keep the inside of the engine spankin' clean, as at
>> least VANOS solenoids are known to get sticky requiring a decent amount
>> of labor to get to them, clean, reassemble.
>>
> I would not bother on something such as a Honda Civic with VTEC to use
> synthetic - the rest of the car will be worn out before you need to open
> up the engine.
>

i would - i've seen those things badly sludged up, including the vtec
control solenoid. regardless of other alleged benefits, the one thing
you can say for most "synthetics" is that they have good
detergent/additive packages, and minimize the impact of this kind of abuse.


--
fact check required

On 9/8/2013 11:36 AM, jim beam wrote:
> On 09/08/2013 08:47 AM, T0m $herman wrote:
>> On 9/8/2013 8:41 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> [...] Additionally, in any engine with any kind of variable valve timing
>>> scheme (VTEC, VANOS, etc.) I would also consider running a full
>>> synthetic, just to keep the inside of the engine spankin' clean, as at
>>> least VANOS solenoids are known to get sticky requiring a decent amount
>>> of labor to get to them, clean, reassemble.
>>>
>> I would not bother on something such as a Honda Civic with VTEC to use
>> synthetic - the rest of the car will be worn out before you need to open
>> up the engine.
>>
>
> i would - i've seen those things badly sludged up, including the vtec
> control solenoid. regardless of other alleged benefits, the one thing
> you can say for most "synthetics" is that they have good
> detergent/additive packages, and minimize the impact of this kind of abuse.
>
Your own or one with unknown history? Mine have never had enough
combustion "blow-by" to even turn regular oil dark with 5,000 mile oil
change intervals, and no noticeable compression loss after 160,000 miles
of being run hard (at which time road salt corrosion had taken its toll
on the body and undercarriage).

--
T0m $herm@n

On 09/08/2013 10:33 AM, T0m $herman wrote:
> On 9/8/2013 11:36 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 09/08/2013 08:47 AM, T0m $herman wrote:
>>> On 9/8/2013 8:41 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>> [...] Additionally, in any engine with any kind of variable valve
>>>> timing
>>>> scheme (VTEC, VANOS, etc.) I would also consider running a full
>>>> synthetic, just to keep the inside of the engine spankin' clean, as at
>>>> least VANOS solenoids are known to get sticky requiring a decent amount
>>>> of labor to get to them, clean, reassemble.
>>>>
>>> I would not bother on something such as a Honda Civic with VTEC to use
>>> synthetic - the rest of the car will be worn out before you need to open
>>> up the engine.
>>>
>>
>> i would - i've seen those things badly sludged up, including the vtec
>> control solenoid. regardless of other alleged benefits, the one thing
>> you can say for most "synthetics" is that they have good
>> detergent/additive packages, and minimize the impact of this kind of
>> abuse.
>>
> Your own or one with unknown history? Mine have never had enough
> combustion "blow-by" to even turn regular oil dark with 5,000 mile oil
> change intervals, and no noticeable compression loss after 160,000 miles
> of being run hard (at which time road salt corrosion had taken its toll
> on the body and undercarriage).
>

junkyard kalifornistan civics. sure, they may have been 1-miles
commuters, but a good synthetic is highly sludge resistant, even in that
regime.

i would also say that cleanliness is essential for good oil consumption
too. the motor i currently have in my civic used to burn oil like
crazy. but, on the theory that clean piston rings are free to move and
thus seal properly, i've been running synthetic/rotella and have seen
oil consumption steadily drop. now it's down to ~1 quart in 7k miles.
not perfect, but a lot better than it was!


--
fact check required