fwd **** propagation

On 8/25/2013 12:14 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/25/2013 07:54 AM, Nate Nagel blathered:
> <snip usual irrelevance>
>
>> I suspect
>
> you "suspect"??? i would merely "suspect" that you're an insufferable
> blathering idiot if you didn't insist on proving it.
>
>
>> that most Mitsus don't make it to 200K miles as they nickel
>> and dime their owners to death
>
> fact-free projected-to-justify-poor-advertisinging-susceptibility drivel

Really? You're asserting that Mitsus *aren't* significantly less
reliable than any other major Japanese manufacturer? Especially Subaru,
their direct competition?

> - and like bmw /NEVER/ actually [as opposed to suppositionally] do that.
> that's why they use high silica brake pads to make sure disks last
> only one set, not two or three like other manufacturers.

So don't buy your brake pads from the dealer (but they actually have
great feel and lots of friction, even if they're dusty as hell.) I didn't.

> that's why
> their radiators burst.

Never had that happen. even on one with >200K miles.

> that's why they only use a wear indicator on one
> brake pad of one wheel.

not even true.

> etc
>
> long boring etc.
>
> but why do i bother - you're completely bought in to the world's
> ultimate marketing campaign and no factual reality could ever enter your
> already ultimately challenged cranium.

I dunno, probably because you never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Do I think BMWs are perfect? Of course not, few cars even get close to
perfection. But I like them, and that's what matters to me. Would I
recommend one to someone who isn't mechanically inclined and considers a
little extra work invested to be worth it for a good driving experience?
No. Just like I wouldn't recommend any Mitsu other than an Eclipse
to... anyone.

nate

On 08/25/2013 09:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 8/25/2013 12:14 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 08/25/2013 07:54 AM, Nate Nagel blathered:
>> <snip usual irrelevance>
>>
>>> I suspect
>>
>> you "suspect"??? i would merely "suspect" that you're an insufferable
>> blathering idiot if you didn't insist on proving it.
>>
>>
>>> that most Mitsus don't make it to 200K miles as they nickel
>>> and dime their owners to death
>>
>> fact-free projected-to-justify-poor-advertisinging-susceptibility drivel
>
> Really? You're asserting that Mitsus *aren't* significantly less
> reliable than any other major Japanese manufacturer? Especially Subaru,
> their direct competition?

oh, puhleese, you're just trying to attack some straw man because you
have nothing else.to justify your ultimate marketing susceptibility.


>
>> - and like bmw /NEVER/ actually [as opposed to suppositionally] do that.
>> that's why they use high silica brake pads to make sure disks last
>> only one set, not two or three like other manufacturers.
>
> So don't buy your brake pads from the dealer (but they actually have
> great feel and lots of friction, even if they're dusty as hell.) I didn't.

did i read that right???? you're actually trying to justify oem rip-off
with an excuse about after-market???? wow.


>
>> that's why
>> their radiators burst.
>
> Never had that happen. even on one with >200K miles.

so you got lucky. once. or you p.o.s. had already had it replaced.


>
>> that's why they only use a wear indicator on one
>> brake pad of one wheel.
>
> not even true.

absolutely it's true - check your facts. clearly you don't know your
own freakin' vehicle!


>
>> etc
>>
>> long boring etc.
>>
>> but why do i bother - you're completely bought in to the world's
>> ultimate marketing campaign and no factual reality could ever enter your
>> already ultimately challenged cranium.
>
> I dunno, probably because you never let facts get in the way of a good
> rant.

uh, that would be you actually.


>
> Do I think BMWs are perfect? Of course not, few cars even get close to
> perfection. But I like them, and that's what matters to me. Would I
> recommend one to someone who isn't mechanically inclined and considers a
> little extra work invested to be worth it for a good driving experience?
> No. Just like I wouldn't recommend any Mitsu other than an Eclipse
> to... anyone.

well i wouldn't recommend any post-80's bmw to anyone - unless they're a
total retard susceptible to advertising and deserve to be separated from
as much money as possible to punish them for their stooooopidity. in
which case, i hope you and your bmw are very happy together.


--
fact check required

On 8/25/2013 1:08 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/25/2013 09:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 8/25/2013 12:14 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>> On 08/25/2013 07:54 AM, Nate Nagel blathered:
>>> <snip usual irrelevance>
>>>
>>>> I suspect
>>>
>>> you "suspect"??? i would merely "suspect" that you're an insufferable
>>> blathering idiot if you didn't insist on proving it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> that most Mitsus don't make it to 200K miles as they nickel
>>>> and dime their owners to death
>>>
>>> fact-free projected-to-justify-poor-advertisinging-susceptibility drivel
>>
>> Really? You're asserting that Mitsus *aren't* significantly less
>> reliable than any other major Japanese manufacturer? Especially Subaru,
>> their direct competition?
>
> oh, puhleese, you're just trying to attack some straw man because you
> have nothing else.to justify your ultimate marketing susceptibility.

Um, I bought it because it's a better car by my criteria. If you
disagree that's fine, but doesn't explain your irrational hatred of
everything German, or your odd defense of Mitsubishi, a company
notorious for unreliable cars and poor customer service.

>
>
>>
>>> - and like bmw /NEVER/ actually [as opposed to suppositionally] do that.
>>> that's why they use high silica brake pads to make sure disks last
>>> only one set, not two or three like other manufacturers.
>>
>> So don't buy your brake pads from the dealer (but they actually have
>> great feel and lots of friction, even if they're dusty as hell.) I
>> didn't.
>
> did i read that right???? you're actually trying to justify oem rip-off
> with an excuse about after-market???? wow.

OEM BMW pads aren't really a rip off, they're actually less expensive
than e.g. Akebono, Hawk, etc. They're quiet and have great initial bite
(now whether you like that or not is personal preference; some people
prefer them, some prefer a more linear feel.) About the only negative
that everyone agrees on is that they dust like hell. I've heard that
they actually reduced dusting sometime in 2010 or 2011 but I went with
Hawks when I replaced mine. I find the Hawks to be perfectly acceptable
and my wheels look much nicer, but I did notice a decided increase in
pedal effort which some people might find objectionable.

>
>>
>>> that's why
>>> their radiators burst.
>>
>> Never had that happen. even on one with >200K miles.
>
> so you got lucky. once. or you p.o.s. had already had it replaced.
>
>
>>
>>> that's why they only use a wear indicator on one
>>> brake pad of one wheel.
>>
>> not even true.
>
> absolutely it's true - check your facts. clearly you don't know your
> own freakin' vehicle!

I have very recently replaced brake pads on both an e36 and an e92.
Both used two wear sensors, one on the LF and one on the RR.

Also, at least the E92 uses a two stage sensor so the car's computer can
more accurately warn the driver how many miles are remaining until
replacement is required, at least assuming that driving style stays
consistent.

I am unaware of any BMW vehicle that uses only one brake wear sensor.

>
>
>>
>>> etc
>>>
>>> long boring etc.
>>>
>>> but why do i bother - you're completely bought in to the world's
>>> ultimate marketing campaign and no factual reality could ever enter your
>>> already ultimately challenged cranium.
>>
>> I dunno, probably because you never let facts get in the way of a good
>> rant.
>
> uh, that would be you actually.
>
>
>>
>> Do I think BMWs are perfect? Of course not, few cars even get close to
>> perfection. But I like them, and that's what matters to me. Would I
>> recommend one to someone who isn't mechanically inclined and considers a
>> little extra work invested to be worth it for a good driving experience?
>> No. Just like I wouldn't recommend any Mitsu other than an Eclipse
>> to... anyone.
>
> well i wouldn't recommend any post-80's bmw to anyone - unless they're a
> total retard susceptible to advertising and deserve to be separated from
> as much money as possible to punish them for their stooooopidity. in
> which case, i hope you and your bmw are very happy together.

We are. I have replaced one fuel injector and one set of brakes since I
got it; everything else that I've done to it has been adding accessories
or performance goodies. It's a great car to drive, your hatred of it
notwithstanding. Everyone who's been in it has asked me how I liked it,
and also expressed that they themselves really liked the vehicle. Most
cars don't inspire people who usually don't give a **** about cars to
spontaneously compliment them.

Of course, I loved my old E28 as well so I pretty much knew what I was
getting into.

nate

On 08/25/2013 11:01 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 8/25/2013 1:08 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 08/25/2013 09:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> On 8/25/2013 12:14 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>> On 08/25/2013 07:54 AM, Nate Nagel blathered:
>>>> <snip usual irrelevance>
>>>>
>>>>> I suspect
>>>>
>>>> you "suspect"??? i would merely "suspect" that you're an insufferable
>>>> blathering idiot if you didn't insist on proving it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> that most Mitsus don't make it to 200K miles as they nickel
>>>>> and dime their owners to death
>>>>
>>>> fact-free projected-to-justify-poor-advertisinging-susceptibility
>>>> drivel
>>>
>>> Really? You're asserting that Mitsus *aren't* significantly less
>>> reliable than any other major Japanese manufacturer? Especially Subaru,
>>> their direct competition?
>>
>> oh, puhleese, you're just trying to attack some straw man because you
>> have nothing else.to justify your ultimate marketing susceptibility.
>
> Um, I bought it because it's a better car by my criteria. If you
> disagree that's fine, but doesn't explain your irrational hatred of
> everything German, or your odd defense of Mitsubishi, a company
> notorious for unreliable cars and poor customer service.

he said flogging a dead horse. the fact is, crappy as you allege it to
be, it's /still/ better then your over-priced, under preforming,
unreliable p.o.s. which is precisely why i cited it and not anything else.


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> - and like bmw /NEVER/ actually [as opposed to suppositionally] do
>>>> that.
>>>> that's why they use high silica brake pads to make sure disks last
>>>> only one set, not two or three like other manufacturers.
>>>
>>> So don't buy your brake pads from the dealer (but they actually have
>>> great feel and lots of friction, even if they're dusty as hell.) I
>>> didn't.
>>
>> did i read that right???? you're actually trying to justify oem rip-off
>> with an excuse about after-market???? wow.
>
> OEM BMW pads aren't really a rip off, they're actually less expensive
> than e.g. Akebono, Hawk, etc.

oh yeah, that's right - they just sting you on the disks, so "cheap"
pads are ok!!!


> They're quiet and have great initial bite
> (now whether you like that or not is personal preference; some people
> prefer them, some prefer a more linear feel.) About the only negative
> that everyone agrees on is that they dust like hell. I've heard that
> they actually reduced dusting sometime in 2010 or 2011 but I went with
> Hawks when I replaced mine. I find the Hawks to be perfectly acceptable
> and my wheels look much nicer, but I did notice a decided increase in
> pedal effort which some people might find objectionable.

blather. bull****. totally missing the point.


>
>>
>>>
>>>> that's why
>>>> their radiators burst.
>>>
>>> Never had that happen. even on one with >200K miles.
>>
>> so you got lucky. once. or you p.o.s. had already had it replaced.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> that's why they only use a wear indicator on one
>>>> brake pad of one wheel.
>>>
>>> not even true.
>>
>> absolutely it's true - check your facts. clearly you don't know your
>> own freakin' vehicle!
>
> I have very recently replaced brake pads on both an e36 and an e92. Both
> used two wear sensors, one on the LF and one on the RR.

omg, do i /really/ have to indicate which axle as well???? holy carp.


>
> Also, at least the E92 uses a two stage sensor so the car's computer can
> more accurately warn the driver how many miles are remaining until
> replacement is required, at least assuming that driving style stays
> consistent.

isn't that cute.


>
> I am unaware of any BMW vehicle that uses only one brake wear sensor.

i'm unaware of any modern bmw owner not myopically invested in trying to
justify their financial servitude to in the ultimate marketing machine.


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> etc
>>>>
>>>> long boring etc.
>>>>
>>>> but why do i bother - you're completely bought in to the world's
>>>> ultimate marketing campaign and no factual reality could ever enter
>>>> your
>>>> already ultimately challenged cranium.
>>>
>>> I dunno, probably because you never let facts get in the way of a good
>>> rant.
>>
>> uh, that would be you actually.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Do I think BMWs are perfect? Of course not, few cars even get close to
>>> perfection. But I like them, and that's what matters to me. Would I
>>> recommend one to someone who isn't mechanically inclined and considers a
>>> little extra work invested to be worth it for a good driving experience?
>>> No. Just like I wouldn't recommend any Mitsu other than an Eclipse
>>> to... anyone.
>>
>> well i wouldn't recommend any post-80's bmw to anyone - unless they're a
>> total retard susceptible to advertising and deserve to be separated from
>> as much money as possible to punish them for their stooooopidity. in
>> which case, i hope you and your bmw are very happy together.
>
> We are.

appropriately.


> I have replaced one fuel injector and one set of brakes since I
> got it; everything else that I've done to it has been adding accessories
> or performance goodies. It's a great car to drive,

yeah, coming off your impala or jeep, it sure is!


> your hatred of it
> notwithstanding.

i don't hate the vehicle, i just happen to know their technical
background. but i do hate their marketing drivel. or more accurately,
why some idiots buy into it - it's a total appeal to emotion with no
technical justification whatsoever.


> Everyone who's been in it has asked me how I liked it,
> and also expressed that they themselves really liked the vehicle. Most
> cars don't inspire people who usually don't give a **** about cars to
> spontaneously compliment them.

who's that? your mom? coming out of your impala or jeep!


>
> Of course, I loved my old E28 as well so I pretty much knew what I was
> getting into.

yeah, you didn't have to put on a new set of emperor-clothing goggles!


--
fact check required

On 8/25/2013 2:56 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/25/2013 11:01 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 8/25/2013 1:08 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>> On 08/25/2013 09:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>> On 8/25/2013 12:14 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>> On 08/25/2013 07:54 AM, Nate Nagel blathered:
>>>>> <snip usual irrelevance>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect
>>>>>
>>>>> you "suspect"??? i would merely "suspect" that you're an insufferable
>>>>> blathering idiot if you didn't insist on proving it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> that most Mitsus don't make it to 200K miles as they nickel
>>>>>> and dime their owners to death
>>>>>
>>>>> fact-free projected-to-justify-poor-advertisinging-susceptibility
>>>>> drivel
>>>>
>>>> Really? You're asserting that Mitsus *aren't* significantly less
>>>> reliable than any other major Japanese manufacturer? Especially
>>>> Subaru,
>>>> their direct competition?
>>>
>>> oh, puhleese, you're just trying to attack some straw man because you
>>> have nothing else.to justify your ultimate marketing susceptibility.
>>
>> Um, I bought it because it's a better car by my criteria. If you
>> disagree that's fine, but doesn't explain your irrational hatred of
>> everything German, or your odd defense of Mitsubishi, a company
>> notorious for unreliable cars and poor customer service.
>
> he said flogging a dead horse. the fact is, crappy as you allege it to
> be, it's /still/ better then your over-priced, under preforming,
> unreliable p.o.s. which is precisely why i cited it and not anything else.
>

IN YOUR OPINION.

Ask any automotive writer/critic if he'd rather have a BMW 3er or an
Evo, assuming that he has to maintain it with his own money. I'd bet
$100 that 9/10 if not 10/10 will pick the BMW. I'd venture that the
same would be true of professional mechanics.

>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - and like bmw /NEVER/ actually [as opposed to suppositionally] do
>>>>> that.
>>>>> that's why they use high silica brake pads to make sure disks last
>>>>> only one set, not two or three like other manufacturers.
>>>>
>>>> So don't buy your brake pads from the dealer (but they actually have
>>>> great feel and lots of friction, even if they're dusty as hell.) I
>>>> didn't.
>>>
>>> did i read that right???? you're actually trying to justify oem rip-off
>>> with an excuse about after-market???? wow.
>>
>> OEM BMW pads aren't really a rip off, they're actually less expensive
>> than e.g. Akebono, Hawk, etc.
>
> oh yeah, that's right - they just sting you on the disks, so "cheap"
> pads are ok!!!
>
>
>> They're quiet and have great initial bite
>> (now whether you like that or not is personal preference; some people
>> prefer them, some prefer a more linear feel.) About the only negative
>> that everyone agrees on is that they dust like hell. I've heard that
>> they actually reduced dusting sometime in 2010 or 2011 but I went with
>> Hawks when I replaced mine. I find the Hawks to be perfectly acceptable
>> and my wheels look much nicer, but I did notice a decided increase in
>> pedal effort which some people might find objectionable.
>
> blather. bull****. totally missing the point.


I got your point, you called BMW brake pads a ripoff, and I tried to
explain that there were technical tradeoffs between factory BMW pads and
good aftermarket pads, and that some people might actually prefer the
factory pads, and it all went over your pointy head.

>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> that's why
>>>>> their radiators burst.
>>>>
>>>> Never had that happen. even on one with >200K miles.
>>>
>>> so you got lucky. once. or you p.o.s. had already had it replaced.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> that's why they only use a wear indicator on one
>>>>> brake pad of one wheel.
>>>>
>>>> not even true.
>>>
>>> absolutely it's true - check your facts. clearly you don't know your
>>> own freakin' vehicle!
>>
>> I have very recently replaced brake pads on both an e36 and an e92. Both
>> used two wear sensors, one on the LF and one on the RR.
>
> omg, do i /really/ have to indicate which axle as well???? holy carp.
>

If you're going to be an ass, the very least you could do is speak
accurately.

In any case, do you really need more than two sensors? Do you need any
at all, especially when it's trivial to simply look through the ****ing
wheels at the pads every now and again?

>
>>
>> Also, at least the E92 uses a two stage sensor so the car's computer can
>> more accurately warn the driver how many miles are remaining until
>> replacement is required, at least assuming that driving style stays
>> consistent.
>
> isn't that cute.
>
>
>>
>> I am unaware of any BMW vehicle that uses only one brake wear sensor.
>
> i'm unaware of any modern bmw owner not myopically invested in trying to
> justify their financial servitude to in the ultimate marketing machine.


Financial servitude? You can get a lease return 3er for less than a new
Camry.

>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> etc
>>>>>
>>>>> long boring etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> but why do i bother - you're completely bought in to the world's
>>>>> ultimate marketing campaign and no factual reality could ever enter
>>>>> your
>>>>> already ultimately challenged cranium.
>>>>
>>>> I dunno, probably because you never let facts get in the way of a good
>>>> rant.
>>>
>>> uh, that would be you actually.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do I think BMWs are perfect? Of course not, few cars even get close to
>>>> perfection. But I like them, and that's what matters to me. Would I
>>>> recommend one to someone who isn't mechanically inclined and
>>>> considers a
>>>> little extra work invested to be worth it for a good driving
>>>> experience?
>>>> No. Just like I wouldn't recommend any Mitsu other than an Eclipse
>>>> to... anyone.
>>>
>>> well i wouldn't recommend any post-80's bmw to anyone - unless they're a
>>> total retard susceptible to advertising and deserve to be separated from
>>> as much money as possible to punish them for their stooooopidity. in
>>> which case, i hope you and your bmw are very happy together.
>>
>> We are.
>
> appropriately.
>
>
>> I have replaced one fuel injector and one set of brakes since I
>> got it; everything else that I've done to it has been adding accessories
>> or performance goodies. It's a great car to drive,
>
> yeah, coming off your impala or jeep, it sure is!
>

Especially coming off an Impala, what an awful car!

>
>> your hatred of it
>> notwithstanding.
>
> i don't hate the vehicle, i just happen to know their technical
> background. but i do hate their marketing drivel. or more accurately,
> why some idiots buy into it - it's a total appeal to emotion with no
> technical justification whatsoever.

Balls, just drive one. Or even read a road test of one. There's a
reason that it is always rated at the top of the small sedan class!
(although sadly, I wouldn't call them particularly "small" anymore even
though they are still classified as subcompacts by the EPA)

On 8/25/2013 9:58 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 08/22/2013 05:00 PM, bugalugs wrote:
>> On 22/08/2013 4:52 p.m., T0m $herman wrote:
>>>
>>> Now this is a car to die for!
>>>
>>> <http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt240/trikerider/Cars%20I%20Have%20Owned/003DatsonF10.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> You're right......I wouldn't be seen dead in it
>>
>
> I actually like it save for the woodgrain. It's distinctly Japanese,
> but from a time when Japanese design was quirky but kind of endearing
> rather than the angular, uninviting plastickiness of the 80's.

The F10 is ugly-cute, like an opossum.
--
T0m $herm@n

On 8/25/2013 12:08 PM, jim beam wrote:
> well i wouldn't recommend any post-80's bmw to anyone - unless they're a
> total retard susceptible to advertising and deserve to be separated from
> as much money as possible to punish them for their stooooopidity.

Two or four wheels? The BMW C600 and C650 are competitively priced, and
being for the most part KYMCO made assemblies shipped to Germany for
final assembly, should be mechanically reliable - Taiwanese quality can
be very good these days.

--
T0m $herm@n

On 8/25/2013 9:50 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> For a day to day driver for those in touch with their inner Finn, a WRX
> STi would be a far more practical option to an Evo.

Although I do have to wonder if Roy Tov is correct about Subaru getting
special treatment from the press?

--
T0m $herm@n

On 8/25/2013 2:47 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Balls, just drive one. Or even read a road test of one. There's a
> reason that it is always rated at the top of the small sedan class!
> (although sadly, I wouldn't call them particularly "small" anymore even
> though they are still classified as subcompacts by the EPA)

Is there a reason that German cars these days all seem to resemble
Panzerwagens in mass?

--
T0m $herm@n

On 8/25/2013 4:53 AM, wrote:
> On Thursday, 22 August 2013 08:33:15 UTC+8, jim beam wrote:
>
>>
>> imo, the people that complain about fwd don't know how to drive fwd.
>>
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND6aoEPLxYU>
>>
>> do your homework - that "****mobile" beat 4wd's in its day. as did the
>>
>> original mini's beat the rwd's of their day.
>>
>>
>> Most British cars were stodgy ****e when the Mini came out, so the Mini
> was seen the greatest thing since sliced organic wholemeal bread.
>
If the Mini had been built by a competent manufacturer..., oh wait it
eventually was as the Honda Civic.

--
T0m $herm@n