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  #21  
Old November 23rd 10, 04:41 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Thermostat

"Stef" > wrote in message
. ..
> In alt.autos.alfa-romeo,
> GT > wrote:
>> "catman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 23/11/2010 09:18, GT wrote:
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On 22/11/2010 15:45, GT wrote:
>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On 22/11/2010 09:35, GT wrote:
>>>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> eb.com...
>>>>>>>>> I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my
>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>> service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at
>>>>>>>>> 90.
>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about
>>>>>>>>> 20
>>>>>>>>> minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its
>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was
>>>>>>>>> warm
>>>>>>>>> within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3
>>>>>>>>> miles!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the
>>>>>>>>> thermostat
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One more thing - coolant. Drain and replace completely? Replace
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> water/coolant mixture or pure coolant? Red or Blue? Halfords own
>>>>>>>> cheap,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> expensive stuff? ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably best to drain, but don't (in theory) let it go down the
>>>>>>> drain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Halfords normal, mixed as per spec on side of bottle depending on
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> cold
>>>>>>> you think it'll get this winter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If red comes out, you'd better put red in, and vice versa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dilute with tap water or de-ionised stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>> I always use tap water. De-ionised was for batteries innit?
>>>>
>>>> I meant distilled, not de-ionised, that is for batteries - oops!! I
>>>> read
>>>> a
>>>> while ago that you should use distilled water to top up the coolant
>>>> because
>>>> it lasts much longer and is rarely changed these days, so distilled
>>>> water
>>>> does less damage when left in the system for extended periods..
>>>
>>> I'd love to see any evidence for that. One of the whole points of
>>> coolant
>>> is that it protects your engine

>>
>> Fair enough - I just took it on face value and presumed that corrosion
>> from
>> impurities was a factor to consider. A little knowledge is sometimes just
>> enough to jump to the wrong conclusion!.

>
> Use distilled or de-ionized water to prevent limescale deposits in your
> cooling system.


Ahh - that makes sense I suppose. We have nice water up here, so that
shouldn't matter!


Ads
  #22  
Old November 23rd 10, 07:39 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Thermostat

On 23/11/2010 15:41, GT wrote:
> > wrote in message
> . ..
>> In alt.autos.alfa-romeo,
>> > wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 23/11/2010 09:18, GT wrote:
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On 22/11/2010 15:45, GT wrote:
>>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> On 22/11/2010 09:35, GT wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> eb.com...
>>>>>>>>>> I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my
>>>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>>>> service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at
>>>>>>>>>> 90.
>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about
>>>>>>>>>> 20
>>>>>>>>>> minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its
>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was
>>>>>>>>>> warm
>>>>>>>>>> within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3
>>>>>>>>>> miles!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the
>>>>>>>>>> thermostat
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One more thing - coolant. Drain and replace completely? Replace
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> water/coolant mixture or pure coolant? Red or Blue? Halfords own
>>>>>>>>> cheap,
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> expensive stuff? ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Probably best to drain, but don't (in theory) let it go down the
>>>>>>>> drain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Halfords normal, mixed as per spec on side of bottle depending on
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> cold
>>>>>>>> you think it'll get this winter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If red comes out, you'd better put red in, and vice versa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dilute with tap water or de-ionised stuff?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I always use tap water. De-ionised was for batteries innit?
>>>>>
>>>>> I meant distilled, not de-ionised, that is for batteries - oops!! I
>>>>> read
>>>>> a
>>>>> while ago that you should use distilled water to top up the coolant
>>>>> because
>>>>> it lasts much longer and is rarely changed these days, so distilled
>>>>> water
>>>>> does less damage when left in the system for extended periods..
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to see any evidence for that. One of the whole points of
>>>> coolant
>>>> is that it protects your engine
>>>
>>> Fair enough - I just took it on face value and presumed that corrosion
>>> from
>>> impurities was a factor to consider. A little knowledge is sometimes just
>>> enough to jump to the wrong conclusion!.

>>
>> Use distilled or de-ionized water to prevent limescale deposits in your
>> cooling system.

>
> Ahh - that makes sense I suppose. We have nice water up here, so that
> shouldn't matter!
>
>


Given that it's a sealed system that should never boil, or indeed lose
any appreciable amount of water, I really am not convinced that
limescale is a problem.

Happy to accept any evidence other than my 20ish yo engines with no
limescale

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #23  
Old November 25th 10, 05:22 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Thermostat

"catman" > wrote in message
...
> On 22/11/2010 09:35, GT wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> eb.com...
>>> I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my last
>>> service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at 90. In
>>> the
>>> recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about 20
>>> minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its always
>>> been
>>> low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was warm
>>> within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3 miles!
>>>
>>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the thermostat is
>>> and
>>> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself?

>>
>> One more thing - coolant. Drain and replace completely? Replace with
>> water/coolant mixture or pure coolant? Red or Blue? Halfords own cheap,
>> or
>> expensive stuff? ...

>
> Probably best to drain, but don't (in theory) let it go down the drain.
>
> Halfords normal, mixed as per spec on side of bottle depending on how cold
> you think it'll get this winter.
>
> If red comes out, you'd better put red in, and vice versa


Anyone know how much it holds? - I might just replace it with new.


  #24  
Old November 26th 10, 10:55 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Thermostat

"GT" > wrote in message
eb.com...
>I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my last
>service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at 90. In the
>recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about 20
>minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its always been
>low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was warm
>within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3 miles!
>
> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the thermostat is and
> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself? I'm
> proficient with the spanner and screwdriver, but I won't go near anything
> critical - ie: if its in there with the timing belt and pump etc, then I'm
> not going there! If it is inline with the cooling pipes and radiator, then
> I'll consider it.


Update:

I had time to experiment this morning...

I started the engine for 5 mins on the drive this morning and felt the pipe
coming out of the thermostat and it stayed cold. I did the school run and as
I got home the fan was just starting to blow luke warm air. I felt the pipes
again and the small pipes that cycle the coolant between the reservoir and
the engine were nicely warm, but not even close to burning my hand - they
felt like 50-60 degrees which is what the guage in the car reported. The
larger pipes between the thermostat and the radiator were still cold and the
radiator was cold, so no coolant had moved to the cooling radiator area,
meaning that the thermostat hadn't opened at all, which suggests that its
not stuck open and is possibly working OK.

Something isn't right because it didn't used to take this long to heat up (I
think!). Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing it
more!


  #25  
Old November 26th 10, 11:17 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Thermostat

"GT" > wrote in message
b.com...
> "GT" > wrote in message
> eb.com...
>>I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my last
>>service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at 90. In
>>the recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about 20
>>minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its always been
>>low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was warm
>>within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3 miles!
>>
>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the thermostat is
>> and how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself? I'm
>> proficient with the spanner and screwdriver, but I won't go near anything
>> critical - ie: if its in there with the timing belt and pump etc, then
>> I'm not going there! If it is inline with the cooling pipes and radiator,
>> then I'll consider it.

>
> Update:
>
> I had time to experiment this morning...
>
> I started the engine for 5 mins on the drive this morning and felt the
> pipe coming out of the thermostat and it stayed cold. I did the school run
> and as I got home the fan was just starting to blow luke warm air. I felt
> the pipes again and the small pipes that cycle the coolant between the
> reservoir and the engine were nicely warm, but not even close to burning
> my hand - they felt like 50-60 degrees which is what the guage in the car
> reported. The larger pipes between the thermostat and the radiator were
> still cold and the radiator was cold, so no coolant had moved to the
> cooling radiator area, meaning that the thermostat hadn't opened at all,
> which suggests that its not stuck open and is possibly working OK.
>
> Something isn't right because it didn't used to take this long to heat up
> (I think!). Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and
> noticing it more!


Air in system perhaps? Anyone know where the bleed tap is?


  #26  
Old November 26th 10, 11:44 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 742
Default Thermostat

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:55:56 -0000, "GT" > wrote:

>Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing it more!


Sounds reasonable but I would also have expected you to find it cold
last winter too.

One thing that was *very* obvious when I jumped ship and left the Alfa
stable was that my new car was vastly warmer ages (several miles)
before my 156 would get much heat into the cabin. It's also warmer on
very cold days even after it's warmed up. It doesn't have an Italian
thermostat and does have a few extra ccs though.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
  #27  
Old November 26th 10, 11:52 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 742
Default Thermostat

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 10:17:52 -0000, "GT" > wrote:

>Air in system perhaps? Anyone know where the bleed tap is?


If the cooling system wasn't working properly and the radiator wasn't
warming up then I'd expect the engine to start glowing unless the
cabin heater was working pretty well. Because you say that you're cold
and the engine radiator is cold and you've not mentioned the engine
over-heating, there is some weirdness in there. Perhaps you're
expecting too much from a short journey or you're just getting old and
decrepit.

I must say that my shortlist of 'must haves' for any car had heated
seats added to it when I hit my mid-forties. Same with the wife.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
  #28  
Old November 26th 10, 01:50 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
GT[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Thermostat

"Zathras" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 10:17:52 -0000, "GT" > wrote:
>
>>Air in system perhaps? Anyone know where the bleed tap is?

>
> If the cooling system wasn't working properly and the radiator wasn't
> warming up then I'd expect the engine to start glowing unless the
> cabin heater was working pretty well. Because you say that you're cold
> and the engine radiator is cold and you've not mentioned the engine
> over-heating, there is some weirdness in there. Perhaps you're
> expecting too much from a short journey or you're just getting old and
> decrepit.


The only real comparison I have (my own driving style and roads) is the Alfa
GT I had as a courtesy car at my last service. From a cold start, driving
from my house, there are about 10 mins of local town roads, then dual
carriageway for ages. My 156 takes the first 10 mins before the heater even
lets warm air through, then a while on the dual carriageway (another 10
mins+) before it is nicely warm. The GT was blowing warm air at me after 2-3
minutes and hot before I even reached the dual carriageway.

Both are petrol. The GT was a 1.8 compared to my 2.0, so the lower power
might warm up more quickly, but I would expect in the region of 10% more
quickly, perhaps not even a noticable difference.

I just seems to take ages to get warm. The only time the temp guage in the
car goes over 70 degrees is after a blast down the motorway, then into a
traffic jam. it will trickle over 90, then come back down pretty quickly.

The thermostat isn't stuck open as I suspected as the large pipes to the
radiator don't get hot at the same time as the small pipes to/from the
reservoir.

Someone suggested air in the system might prevent the heater from getting
heat from the coolant, but someone else said not to touch the bleed screw on
the radiator because they get corroded and turning it will knacker it!
Also - its on the radiator, which isn't being called upon very often, so
there is no flow through that during the warming up period!

> I must say that my shortlist of 'must haves' for any car had heated
> seats added to it when I hit my mid-forties. Same with the wife.


You can get heated wives? Remarkable - Korean is she?


  #29  
Old November 26th 10, 02:08 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Thermostat

On 26/11/2010 09:55, GT wrote:
> > wrote in message
> eb.com...
>> I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my last
>> service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at 90. In the
>> recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about 20
>> minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its always been
>> low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was warm
>> within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3 miles!
>>
>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the thermostat is and
>> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself? I'm
>> proficient with the spanner and screwdriver, but I won't go near anything
>> critical - ie: if its in there with the timing belt and pump etc, then I'm
>> not going there! If it is inline with the cooling pipes and radiator, then
>> I'll consider it.

>
> Update:
>
> I had time to experiment this morning...
>
> I started the engine for 5 mins on the drive this morning and felt the pipe
> coming out of the thermostat and it stayed cold. I did the school run and as
> I got home the fan was just starting to blow luke warm air. I felt the pipes
> again and the small pipes that cycle the coolant between the reservoir and
> the engine were nicely warm, but not even close to burning my hand - they
> felt like 50-60 degrees which is what the guage in the car reported. The
> larger pipes between the thermostat and the radiator were still cold and the
> radiator was cold, so no coolant had moved to the cooling radiator area,
> meaning that the thermostat hadn't opened at all, which suggests that its
> not stuck open and is possibly working OK.
>
> Something isn't right because it didn't used to take this long to heat up (I
> think!). Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing it
> more!
>
>


It's jammed part open. So there's not enough hot water getting through
the system to get the rad side *hot*, but too much to overheat the
engine side.

Trust me on this



--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #30  
Old November 26th 10, 02:10 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Thermostat

On 26/11/2010 10:44, Zathras wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:55:56 -0000, > wrote:
>
>> Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing it more!

>
> Sounds reasonable but I would also have expected you to find it cold
> last winter too.


Nope. It's not getting hot enough.

>
> One thing that was *very* obvious when I jumped ship and left the Alfa
> stable was that my new car was vastly warmer ages (several miles)
> before my 156 would get much heat into the cabin. It's also warmer on
> very cold days even after it's warmed up. It doesn't have an Italian
> thermostat and does have a few extra ccs though.
>


I suspect your 156 stat was failing as well. Knowing the TS, and V6
engines well, they are capable of raising 'quite a lot' of heat in the
cabin.

They do seem to fail often though.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 




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