GTR - "feel"

I'm a mildly serious simmer of average quality (GPL rank +50, mostlt
the Ring).I just got GTR, and it seems really good, especially the AI.

But I have an issue. It seems to me that feeling the edge of traction
is more difficult than with GPL, NR2003, or the old GTR. Either I'm
stuck like glue or I'm off the track. 3.4 P4, MOMO Force (the original
one), 9800pro,

Is it me? More realistic physics? Opinions?

Bob

Bob wrote:
> I'm a mildly serious simmer of average quality (GPL rank +50, mostlt
> the Ring).I just got GTR, and it seems really good, especially the AI.
>
> But I have an issue. It seems to me that feeling the edge of traction
> is more difficult than with GPL, NR2003, or the old GTR. Either I'm
> stuck like glue or I'm off the track. 3.4 P4, MOMO Force (the original
> one), 9800pro,
>
> Is it me? More realistic physics? Opinions?
>
> Bob
>

I'm not sure which cars you've tried, but I tend to agree with you if
you're talking about GTR straight out of the box. It takes a bit of
tweaking -- but I'm neither a tweaker or a set-up guru.

So, after trying several cars at my favorite circuit (Spa), I found that
the car that has the best "feel" for me is the (NGT) Ferrari 360 Modena.
If you haven't tried NGT, give it a whirl.

I would be curious to hear opinions about which GT-class car feels
closest to the 360 Modena, though...... I'd like to try a GT again, but
have neither the time nor inclination to tweak.

> I'm a mildly serious simmer of average quality (GPL rank +50, mostlt
> the Ring).I just got GTR, and it seems really good, especially the AI.
>
> But I have an issue. It seems to me that feeling the edge of traction
> is more difficult than with GPL, NR2003, or the old GTR. Either I'm
> stuck like glue or I'm off the track. 3.4 P4, MOMO Force (the original
> one), 9800pro,
>
> Is it me? More realistic physics? Opinions?

I think it's partly setup and it's partly the car. If you want to slide
around in a GT car, I'd say give the Lambo a spin. That thing has great
throttle oversteer and makes for some nice mini-slides coming out of fast
sweepers. It also helps a great deal to up the scrubbing volume. I can
certainly see how folks can run the cars very close to the edge (I can't),
but it requires very good command of the pedals. I've found that small
movements can make a huge difference between going fast and going off, and
from the little I played of the GPL demo, it's more forgiving of
(relatively) larger movements.

Alan

I have to agree. GTR lacks feel. I think it's a problem with the feedback
from the car. GPL nailed this perfectly. GTR has little or no real
feedback. If you notice, the camera actually doesn't move much, compared to
GPL.

James


"Bob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm a mildly serious simmer of average quality (GPL rank +50, mostlt
> the Ring).I just got GTR, and it seems really good, especially the AI.
>
> But I have an issue. It seems to me that feeling the edge of traction
> is more difficult than with GPL, NR2003, or the old GTR. Either I'm
> stuck like glue or I'm off the track. 3.4 P4, MOMO Force (the original
> one), 9800pro,
>
> Is it me? More realistic physics? Opinions?
>
> Bob
>

I don't notice that at all. The "feel" of the car is the best in an ISI
based sim in quite a while. I'm not sure what the difference between me
and you is, but I like the overall feel of the sim. Something I tried
that made a world of difference. Try the setups that you can dload via
the "online files" button. Pick one that for your car and try it out. I
am terrible at setups and for some tracks, it took a few tries, but for
the original tracks, there are a ton of setups available. Instantly, I
was seconds quicker per lap on almost every track. Perhaps that will
improve the feel for you.



Bob wrote:
> I'm a mildly serious simmer of average quality (GPL rank +50, mostlt
> the Ring).I just got GTR, and it seems really good, especially the AI.
>
> But I have an issue. It seems to me that feeling the edge of traction
> is more difficult than with GPL, NR2003, or the old GTR. Either I'm
> stuck like glue or I'm off the track. 3.4 P4, MOMO Force (the original
> one), 9800pro,
>
> Is it me? More realistic physics? Opinions?
>
> Bob

Uwe =?iso-8859-15?Q?Sch=FCrkamp?= > wrote in
:

> On 8 Jun 2005 02:01:23 -0700, Darus wrote:
>> I don't notice that at all. The "feel" of the car is the best in an ISI
>> based sim in quite a while. I'm not sure what the difference between me
>
> Same here, maybe the OP should play with the ge-force slider to see if
> it improves the feel for him.
>
> Cheers, uwe
>
>

A couple of questions....for the non-feelers out there.
Are you 'old school' GPLers? Have you configured your controller screens
to properly adapt to GTR? Here is a thread on RaceSim Central that might
help. http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=98340
And 3rd question....do you have a Force Feedback wheel?


dave henrie

"Bob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm a mildly serious simmer of average quality (GPL rank +50, mostlt
> the Ring).I just got GTR, and it seems really good, especially the AI.
>
> But I have an issue. It seems to me that feeling the edge of traction
> is more difficult than with GPL, NR2003, or the old GTR. Either I'm
> stuck like glue or I'm off the track. 3.4 P4, MOMO Force (the original
> one), 9800pro,
>
> Is it me? More realistic physics? Opinions?
>

No doubt you'll get a range of opinions, but I'd say what you're noticing is
a combination of GTR's (accurate) lack of loud tire-slip sounds, in concert
with the exaggerated bumpiness of the track surfaces and the remaining
low-speed grip issues with that generation of ISI-based tire model.

Qualifier - I only have the latest demo to go by. But if you crank the
telemetry data sampling rate up all the way and take a good look at the
suspension travel and damper velocities it appears there's something funky
going on in there. I've seen instances of the suspension oscillating
through a 12cm range (+/-6) in .05-second intervals in fairly low-speed
sections of Spa, and that just looks off to me. Think about it; up and down
6cm, or 2& 1/4 inches, 20 times per second. That's a jackhammer on
turbo-mode, not a shock absorber. It's either some crazy bump modeling in
the track surface or an oscillation developing in the physics model.

The result is the grip tend to come and go in a kind of chattering, staccato
fashion, and at low speed it tends to be sudden. Does tend to convey a
bumpy track surface, but hey; I've been around spa on 21mm bike tires at
120psi with NO suspension and it just aint THAT bumpy... ;-) You can tweak
the tire sounds in the PLR file to give yourself a bit more feedback at
early slip levels if you like.

> >> I don't notice that at all. The "feel" of the car is the best in an ISI
> >> based sim in quite a while.

Could be. I wasn't comparing it to ISI sims.


> A couple of questions....for the non-feelers out there.
> Are you 'old school' GPLers?

Yep.

> Have you configured your controller screens
> to properly adapt to GTR?

That was my biggest problem. Impatient, I started to use
the sim and set the controller (MOMO Force) up, but left off cosmetic
details like a driver name. When, after a relatively few laps, I
changed the name I lost all the controller settings. That fixed,
things (at least with the Lamborghini) are substantially better. The
edge is still harder to find than with GPL or NASCAR2003, but to a
degree that I'm willing to believe it's (at least mostly) modern tires.
At least now I can get feedback about what I'm doing wrong :-).

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Use the differential luke

Seriously though, till I came to grips with the diff I felt similar to you
about GTR. After finally investing some time learning the diff I wonder how
on earth I ever turned a decent lap prior. It made all the difference.
Makes me wish I would have spent more time setting up GPL.

The edge IS more difficult to find than in NR2003. But that aint saying
much

GTR takes a bunch of skill to turn consistent laps and even more to be
consistently fast.

Another big help is to adjust your sounds so skidding/road noise and tire
noise all up to 200%. I even turn down the other sounds a bit just to focus
the tire sounds even more.


Mitch


"Bob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>> >> I don't notice that at all. The "feel" of the car is the best in an
>> >> ISI
>> >> based sim in quite a while.
>
> Could be. I wasn't comparing it to ISI sims.
>
>
>> A couple of questions....for the non-feelers out there.
>> Are you 'old school' GPLers?
>
> Yep.
>
>> Have you configured your controller screens
>> to properly adapt to GTR?
>
> That was my biggest problem. Impatient, I started to use
> the sim and set the controller (MOMO Force) up, but left off cosmetic
> details like a driver name. When, after a relatively few laps, I
> changed the name I lost all the controller settings. That fixed,
> things (at least with the Lamborghini) are substantially better. The
> edge is still harder to find than with GPL or NASCAR2003, but to a
> degree that I'm willing to believe it's (at least mostly) modern tires.
> At least now I can get feedback about what I'm doing wrong :-).
>
> Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
>

It IS an ISI based you know? So the comparo is valid.