More Dangerous Chinese Tire-related Crap

Tegger > wrote:
>
>You can blame the Chinese Commie state-capitalists for greatly aiding
>Western private capitalism. How utterly ironic.

And Lenin said we'd sell them the rope to hang us with...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bill wary wrote:

>>
> We can thank all those "patriotic" american manufacturers for putting
> their bottom line ahead of their reputation and shoving their foot up
> the ass of all Americans.

Nice theory. But manufacturers can't afford to be patriotic when the
buying public refuses to do so! Its either match the competition's
price, or go broke being patriotic. That wouldn't be true if the BUYERS
(that's you and me) would consistently pay the extra coin for
American-made products.

"Steve" > wrote in message
>
> That wouldn't be true if the BUYERS
> (that's you and me) would consistently pay the extra coin for
> American-made products.

Very true...we have been led down the primrose path, and we went
because we were shortsighted.

Joe Brophy > wrote in article
>...
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:05:07 -0500, "HLS" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"C. E. White" > wrote in message news:g4g2g9
> >> As a Consumer, how would I know that some tire store installed Chinese

> >> crap?
> >>
> >> Ed
> >
> >Sometimes it may not be easy, but it can be worthwhile to find out in
cases
> >like this.
> >
> >I dont buy odd name brands, for one. I stick with Michelin or companies

> >that (I think)
> >I know.
> >
> >You can look for the "Made In XXX" stamp on the articles. Ask the store

> >representative.
> >Dont buy a pig in a poke.
> >
> >A while back there was a big brouhaha about the Chinese tires that were
> >imported to the US
> >under certain quality provisions, and the Chinese changed the
manufacturing
> >process without alerting anyone. These tires started to fail, and the
> >Chinese refused to take any responsibility.
> >
> >This can be really dangerous.
> >
> >Just before I retired, I refused to accept any product samples of
chemicals
> >from China because they would not entertain our QC tests and
specifications.
> >Fine with me if they
> >dont want to spec their materials, but I damn sure didnt have to
evaluate
> >nor buy from them.
>
> In order to import a product to the USA doesn't a USA company, or at
least a company with operations presence here have to
> ORDER such product, and in order to communicate the REQUIREMENTS of the
product aren't SPECIFICATIONS and internationally
> recognized STANDARDS normally used and included as a regular part of the
import process?
>
> All the banter of the "Cheap Chinese products" and our armature attempts
to define a reason or rationale for their not
> producing "High Quality (which also means "Higher Purchase Price") which
for some reason always end up with one of to
> answers that we seem to be comfortable with: 1) They don't have the
knowledge or technical know-how to do it right, or 2)
> Those darn folks thought they could fool us, why lookey here at what they
sent.....golley gee!
>

The Chinese only care about if the product "looks" the same.

They use inferior materials to copy tools and machines.

In the case of the missing gum strips in the tires, THAT was a decision
made by the Chinese factory as a cost-savings for themselves. The tires
coming off the line "looked" okay, and the discrepancy wasn't discovered
until the tires started to come apart.

There isn't enough technical knowledge among the general population - the
factory workers - to understand the consequences of straying from
specification. Even if there was, I doubt if anybody would dare speak up in
the communist government-controlled factories.

>Joe Brophy > wrote in article
>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:05:07 -0500, "HLS" > wrote:
>>
>> All the banter of the "Cheap Chinese products" and our armature attempts
>to define a reason or rationale for their not
>> producing "High Quality (which also means "Higher Purchase Price") which
>for some reason always end up with one of to
>> answers that we seem to be comfortable with: 1) They don't have the
>knowledge or technical know-how to do it right, or 2)
>> Those darn folks thought they could fool us, why lookey here at what they
>sent.....golley gee!
>>
>
>The Chinese only care about if the product "looks" the same.

Yes. The problem is that the importers only care about that too.

>They use inferior materials to copy tools and machines.

This is true, and my experience dealing with Chinese manufacturers is that
they are very, very sensitive to materials prices and it is very difficult
for them to get good materials. You can pressure the plant to use decent
quality bronze, but they'll use cartridge brass anyway and they'll try and
tell you it's yellow bronze.

There are some things the Chinese plants do very, very well, like PC board
fabrication. And there are some other things they do remarkably poorly,
including some kinds of precision machining. The things they do well, they
do well because the US buyers have demanded they do them well. The things
they do poorly, they do poorly because nobody has pressured them into doing
any better.

>In the case of the missing gum strips in the tires, THAT was a decision
>made by the Chinese factory as a cost-savings for themselves. The tires
>coming off the line "looked" okay, and the discrepancy wasn't discovered
>until the tires started to come apart.

Yup, and this sort of substitution is very common in Chinese factories, and
part of what makes it so common is that the people making the products
really have no idea what the products really are or how they work. The
actual degree of expertise at the plants is very low, and often copying other
plants is a substitute for doing actual engineering.

US importers should expect this kind of thing, and they should be aware of
it, because it happens all over unless you do your own final quality control
testing.

>There isn't enough technical knowledge among the general population - the
>factory workers - to understand the consequences of straying from
>specification. Even if there was, I doubt if anybody would dare speak up in
>the communist government-controlled factories.

Sad to say, the factories aren't government-controlled much any more. Even
the factories that are government-owned. There is just too much pressure
to make money for the government to really put any pressure on anyone. If
you want to violate government laws, that's fine. You just pay money to
someone to ignore your violation. Although the Chinese government may
call itself communist, there are few other places in the world where money
is king and will get you absolutely anything you want, from a cup of tea
to your own laws. Consequently, anything that people can do to make a
little more money, they will tend to do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Joe Brophy" > wrote in message
> If you think that for one minute the Chinese are not capable of producing
> good quality products and that the factories
> they are building aren't up to the latest manufacturing and statistical
> process control technology available anywhere, you
> are only fooling yourself, if even that. Here I thought it didn't take a
> rocket scientist to figure that out.....OOPS!
> Those sneaky folks in China even do rocket science pretty well, golly gee,
> least we're smarter, huh sarge!

Yes, they are capable of producing quality products, but they do not
necessarily adhere
to the specifications and norms that an American purchaser demands.

They have, in the past, produced crap that looks ok but is in fact
dangerous.

If you do not hold them strictly and rigidly liable for this, you never know
what you will
get.

A lot of people have died because of China's lax QC policies.

Steve wrote:
> I just told
> the NAPA counterman "no way in hell!" when he brought out Chinese-made
> brake rotors for my Jeep last saturday, for example.

It's getting nearly impossible to find rotors that weren't made in China.

--
Britney Spears' Guide to Semiconductor Physics
<http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm>

yea! you think that bad try finding meds that you and your kids take that
are not made in china
all so ceo's can collect overlarge bonues and bankrupt companies and you pay
the final price

clifto wrote:

> Steve wrote:
> > I just told
> > the NAPA counterman "no way in hell!" when he brought out Chinese-made
> > brake rotors for my Jeep last saturday, for example.
>
> It's getting nearly impossible to find rotors that weren't made in China.
>
> --
> Britney Spears' Guide to Semiconductor Physics
> <http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm>