IRacing Pricing

alexti wrote:

> You know, when most noobs get into the kart they do exactly the same - go
> too fast and end up in the tyres Sensation of speed in sims (or at
> least in good sims) is very close to real life (meaning that it's very
> bad in both cases). What makes sims harder is lack of sense of how much
> grip you have. But unlike real life, the surface in sims provides
> constant grip, so as soon as you get used to it, it becomes much less of
> an issue.
>
>

GPL has no grip on any surface.

Jan Verschueren wrote:

> I take it you haven't driven the Isle of Man course or Dundrod (or any of
> the dozens of tracks for GPL that'll scare the pants off you), have you?
>
> I mean, I've been doing this since September 1998 and, even though I know
> "it's just a game" (lol), I still have to overcome real fear to push myself
> in the sim.
>
> I can appreciate noobs not taking things seriously and bouncing off walls,
> but then again if one's not willing to apply himself, every "game" boils
> down to that. I can play Company of Heroes and not care if my soldiers live
> or die, or I can play it properly and get more out of the experience. See
> what I mean?
>
> Jan.
> =---
>
>

COH is a boring kiddy RTS game and I can't stand it. That's why I don't
care if they live or die.

>>> More realistic ... doesn't mean harder...

>> You're going to upset a lot of LFS fanboys with statements like that.

> I have LFS and don't get why you say that.

Note the reference to LFS fanboys. Where else but at a LFS forum would
you find a thread titled:

Join the "We're glad LFS is harder and more realistic now" club

Jeff Reid wrote:

>
> Join the "We're glad LFS is harder and more realistic now" club

Well, I agree with the more realistic part but not the harder part. GPL
is far harder and far less realistic because of it.

>> Join the "We're glad LFS is harder and more realistic now" club

> Well, I agree with the more realistic part but not the harder part. GPL is far harder and far less realistic because
> of it.

Which was my point about the LFS fanboys.

----- Original Message -----
"Backspace" wrote...
>> <snip>
> COH is a boring kiddy RTS game and I can't stand it.
> That's why I don't care if they live or die.

That's my point: CoH is neither a true single player RTS, nor in any way
simplistic enough
to be called a "kiddy game". Just like with GPL, you're just shutting
yourself off from experiencing what's on offer because you don't want to
face your own weaknesses.

Jan.
=---

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:40:38 +0000, Backspace wrote:

> alexti wrote:
>
>> You know, when most noobs get into the kart they do exactly the same -
>> go too fast and end up in the tyres Sensation of speed in sims (or
>> at least in good sims) is very close to real life (meaning that it's
>> very bad in both cases). What makes sims harder is lack of sense of how
>> much grip you have. But unlike real life, the surface in sims provides
>> constant grip, so as soon as you get used to it, it becomes much less
>> of an issue.
>>
>>
>>
> GPL has no grip on any surface.
Simple calculation of deceleration based on the speed and time required
to stop demonstrates that GPL cars have 1.1-1.25 friction coefficient on
the asphalt. That is less than modern racing slicks, but considerably
more than a regular tyres.

> GPL has no grip on any surface.

I think it's more of an issue of underestimation of speed. In GPL, it just
doesn't seem like the cars are going as fast as their speedo's indicate.
The tracks in GPL don't really have any signifcant detail on their surface,
so there's little in the way of visual feedback.

Note I created a seperate GPL thread.

On 1 Mar, 03:01, jason moyer > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 8:42*pm, "Jan Verschueren"
>
> > wrote:
> > The right front tyre is
> > hardcoded to heat up/wear more regardless of how it's being treated/loaded
> > by the particular circuit, making a "real life correct" setup/driving
> > philosophy in NR2003 on ovals unfeasable (i.e. leading to exploits being
> > quicker).
>
> IIRC, that's actually a bug that's related specifically to the PTA
> physics slot (which, AFAIK, is what GTP uses too). *I don't believe
> I've experienced that phenomenon in the cup/bgn/cts physics, but it's
> been awhile since I've driven n2003.

I think its something to do with the transmission, not just that the
front right is hardcoded to heat up, its that the live rear axle and
its nascar based differential exert a force on the chassis, which
results in the right front taking more force than the left, or
something like that.

pez

I disagree; I would say that the sensation of speed actually *is* one of
the aspects of racing that may be simulated properly.

What kind of sensory input do you have when out on the RL track? You see
things passing by, you hear your engine sings, you see your rev meter,
you feel the rumble. Of those, I'd choose rev meter and "engine sings"
any day, and both of those can be simulated properly, given a decent
sound system.

You read your speed with your ears, and you use your eyes to place the
car on the track, you use your eyes. Loads and loads of drivers out
there have no feel, or perception of speed whatsoever, and this stems
from a lack of sensitivity in their ears. I always said that a truly
great racing driver must also have a musical sense...

A novice driver with no fear for his life would go too fast in RL too,
because the skill to read speed comes with practice, practice, practice.
Judging speed is one of the key factors of becoming a racing driver, and
it is the key to race simulations well, too.

However, what you *can't* feel is the minute changes of grip, the
details of the racing surface, the tyre response and changes. FFB has
improved this in the front axis area, but this is still the main problem
and shortcoming of a sim. My main gripe right now is the ability to read
what takes place at the rear end of my cars.

All this comes from reading the Gs you pull, and this can never be
simulated per se; we'll have to wait for that back-of-your-skull
connector to simulate that.

--A--

On 29.02.2008 08:10, * Backspace wrote:
> alexti wrote:
>
>> I found was that GPL was not difficult (IMHO) as long as you were
>> driving it as a real car. One just needed to have realistic
>> expectation - you don't jump in and go fast in those cars. I hope that
>> no one expects to get into a real '67 car and start matching times of
>> F1 drivers right away
>
> How can one drive it like areal car when there is no feeling as to how
> fast you are going? That's the big issue with most noobs to racing sims.
> They immediately floor it and go too fast in the corners but you can't
> blame them when there is no sensation of real speed in the games.