Tire Aspect Ratios, High-vs-Low Profile, and Straight-line Stability

Sanity Clause wrote: "
Likely had an alignment done before you bought it too, compared to
the bashed-into-curbs, no-maintenance thing you turned in.
So of course it's going to handle differently.
Next time try swapping wheels & tires ON THE SAME CAR. "

I understand the differences, Clause, but I neglected
to mention:

The Sonata had THREE alignments done, zero worn or
damaged parts anywhere on its suspension, plus all engine
fluids were up to date. I examined the alignment specs
myself snd made sure they weren't just 'in the green' but
where in the green they should be, side to side.

Read up on "Sonata steering issues" - it will be a revelation
for you. Lower profile tires were just a small element to
the 2011-14 Sonata's straight line stability problems over
50mph. Even after having steering mode electronically
set to a higher-driver-effort-required mode(Hard, Sport) it
was still a two-hand white knuckle experience in that car
for a significant percentage of drivers.

Finally, Enterprise car sales would never let a car out of
their lot in "bashed up no maintenance condition".

Kevin Bottorff wrote: "I gaurenty all things the same, the wider low profile tires will handle
better, ride rougher but handle better. KB "

I speak from actual driving experience. The skinny little 14" rims
in the Nissan Versa tracked straighter and tighter than 60 or
50 series tires I've driven in anything, let alone my Elantra.


Given same diameter, wider tires will be affected more by
road imperfections that can pull them side to side, than narrow
high-profiles. A car with wider, low-profiles needs either:
less power steering assist built in, or, a lot more Caster or
SAI angle built in to resist road irregularities, than does one
riding on 'skinnier' wares.


Not to mention skinnier tires concentrate more weight on a
longitudinal contact patch - that is, parallel to direction car travels
in. Cars drive forward and backward, not sideways. You want a
contact patch shaped accordingly.

wrote in news:334832c8-1b69-44ea-8d53-07d1c48f1f60
@googlegroups.com:

> Sanity Clause wrote: "
> Likely had an alignment done before you bought it too, compared to
> the bashed-into-curbs, no-maintenance thing you turned in.
> So of course it's going to handle differently.
> Next time try swapping wheels & tires ON THE SAME CAR. "
>
> I understand the differences, Clause, but I neglected
> to mention:
>
> The Sonata had THREE alignments done, zero worn or
> damaged parts anywhere on its suspension, plus all engine
> fluids were up to date. I examined the alignment specs
> myself snd made sure they weren't just 'in the green' but
> where in the green they should be, side to side.
>
> Read up on "Sonata steering issues" - it will be a revelation
> for you. Lower profile tires were just a small element to
> the 2011-14 Sonata's straight line stability problems over
> 50mph. Even after having steering mode electronically
> set to a higher-driver-effort-required mode(Hard, Sport) it
> was still a two-hand white knuckle experience in that car
> for a significant percentage of drivers.
>
> Finally, Enterprise car sales would never let a car out of
> their lot in "bashed up no maintenance condition".
>

Soooo you went from a poorly designed suspension to a good one and then
want to blame the wide tires, you are a fool. your perceptions are 180
degrees wrong. the wider tires handle better and DO NOT follow the road
irregularits as much. aparently you have little experiance with both wide
and narrow tires on the same cars. I have done lots over the years. the
only time handleing is worse is in rain or snow, possibly loose gravel.
KB

On Thu, 6 Oct 2016 15:28:47 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:

wrote in news:334832c8-1b69-44ea-8d53-07d1c48f1f60
:
>
>> Sanity Clause wrote: "
>> Likely had an alignment done before you bought it too, compared to
>> the bashed-into-curbs, no-maintenance thing you turned in.
>> So of course it's going to handle differently.
>> Next time try swapping wheels & tires ON THE SAME CAR. "
>>
>> I understand the differences, Clause, but I neglected
>> to mention:
>>
>> The Sonata had THREE alignments done, zero worn or
>> damaged parts anywhere on its suspension, plus all engine
>> fluids were up to date. I examined the alignment specs
>> myself snd made sure they weren't just 'in the green' but
>> where in the green they should be, side to side.
>>
>> Read up on "Sonata steering issues" - it will be a revelation
>> for you. Lower profile tires were just a small element to
>> the 2011-14 Sonata's straight line stability problems over
>> 50mph. Even after having steering mode electronically
>> set to a higher-driver-effort-required mode(Hard, Sport) it
>> was still a two-hand white knuckle experience in that car
>> for a significant percentage of drivers.
>>
>> Finally, Enterprise car sales would never let a car out of
>> their lot in "bashed up no maintenance condition".
>>
>
>Soooo you went from a poorly designed suspension to a good one and then
>want to blame the wide tires, you are a fool. your perceptions are 180
>degrees wrong. the wider tires handle better and DO NOT follow the road
>irregularits as much. aparently you have little experiance with both wide
>and narrow tires on the same cars. I have done lots over the years. the
>only time handleing is worse is in rain or snow, possibly loose gravel.
>KB

You both need to read these articles:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramlining

Kevin Bottorff wrote: "from a poorly designed suspension to a good one and then
want to blame the wide tires, you are a fool. your perceptions are 180
degrees wrong."

I know what I felt, and what I felt in the Nissan Versa Note
and the Elantra was a level of stability and confidence lacking
in the particular Sonata I drove for two months. It was a 2013
Sonata Limited with 55 series V-rated tires. I'm willing to admit
the power steering in that car left loads to be desired. And my
Sonata's caster was 3.9-4.0 degrees - spec is 4.4deg plus minus
half defre. But I had neither the money nor inclination to experiment
with higher profile rubber or massive reconstruction to add
just another half degree casteron that car.

"the wider tires handle better and DO NOT follow the road irregularities as much."

You think I made that up - about the irregularities? It's on every good tire
website I visited.

apparently you have little experiance with both wide
and narrow tires on the same cars. I have done lots over the years. the
only time handleing is worse is in rain or snow, possibly loose gravel.
KB

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 1:01:18 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> Sanity Clause wrote: "
> Likely had an alignment done before you bought it too, compared to
> the bashed-into-curbs, no-maintenance thing you turned in.
> So of course it's going to handle differently.
> Next time try swapping wheels & tires ON THE SAME CAR. "
>
> I understand the differences, Clause, but I neglected
> to mention:
>
> The Sonata had THREE alignments done, zero worn or
> damaged parts anywhere on its suspension, plus all engine
> fluids were up to date. I examined the alignment specs
> myself snd made sure they weren't just 'in the green' but
> where in the green they should be, side to side.
>
> Read up on "Sonata steering issues" - it will be a revelation
> for you. Lower profile tires were just a small element to
> the 2011-14 Sonata's straight line stability problems over
> 50mph. Even after having steering mode electronically
> set to a higher-driver-effort-required mode(Hard, Sport) it
> was still a two-hand white knuckle experience in that car
> for a significant percentage of drivers.
>
> Finally, Enterprise car sales would never let a car out of
> their lot in "bashed up no maintenance condition".

It sounds like you're saying the problem was with the car, not the tires.

dsi1:

It was a combination:

The 2011-14 Elantra electric MDPS(motor driven
power steering) system utilized a small rubber/
plastic coupler between the driver and rack sides
of the motor. While insisting the premature wear
of this $3 part had "no effect on steering performance",
Hyundai issued a TSB in 2014 authorizing
replacement of the coupling under exisiting
warranty.

Mine was a 2013 Sonata Ltd, with 55-17 tires. I
suspect that some play had built up around that
coupler, and, combined with low-barely-in-spec
Caster, contributed to the nudging and tugging
I felt in the steering wheel at higher speeds.

The Sonata GLS(more of a base) of that year
had higher 60 or 65 series profile tires, and perhaps
I wouldn't have felt those sensations I felt with
the wider tire and wheel pkg.

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 11:20:24 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> dsi1:
>
> It was a combination:
>
> The 2011-14 Elantra electric MDPS(motor driven
> power steering) system utilized a small rubber/
> plastic coupler between the driver and rack sides
> of the motor. While insisting the premature wear
> of this $3 part had "no effect on steering performance",
> Hyundai issued a TSB in 2014 authorizing
> replacement of the coupling under exisiting
> warranty.
>
> Mine was a 2013 Sonata Ltd, with 55-17 tires. I
> suspect that some play had built up around that
> coupler, and, combined with low-barely-in-spec
> Caster, contributed to the nudging and tugging
> I felt in the steering wheel at higher speeds.
>
> The Sonata GLS(more of a base) of that year
> had higher 60 or 65 series profile tires, and perhaps
> I wouldn't have felt those sensations I felt with
> the wider tire and wheel pkg.

Perhaps - I guess we're never know.