e39 2002, should I keep it?

In article >,
Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> While I am personally very annoyed at BMW for throwing all kinds of
> useless electronic gewgaws into every model now, and making it
> impossible to order them (in the US) without all this stuff, I don't
> think that should necessarily be the most important think you look at
> when you buy a car.

Only thing I don't like on my fully loaded E39 is the rain sensing wipers
- because they don't work well. But then neither does any delay wipe
system I've had. Dunno if later cars have better sensing.

--
*Vegetarians taste great*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Florida NRA SW" > wrote

> Older bmw's were built better, newer ones are the problem. Also, FYI
> the consumer reports reliability reports go back 10 years!! Is 10
> years of data enough to draw a conclusion on whether or not the model
> car you're looking at is reliable?
> This is where bmw's and most german cars show their ugly side - lots
> of problems.

One more thing I forgot about CR & JDPower; because they don't
differentiate between "bugs" and "features", they have lumped complaints
about the usability of iDrive into "electrical" or other problems, which
skews things considerably.

Yeah, it sucks, but it's not broken.

FloydR

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:00:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>> While I am personally very annoyed at BMW for throwing all kinds of
>> useless electronic gewgaws into every model now, and making it
>> impossible to order them (in the US) without all this stuff, I don't
>> think that should necessarily be the most important think you look at
>> when you buy a car.
>
>Only thing I don't like on my fully loaded E39 is the rain sensing wipers
>- because they don't work well. But then neither does any delay wipe
>system I've had. Dunno if later cars have better sensing.

Dave

The ones on my 730d SE (2007) are pretty good but the trick is to run the wipers
first then switch to auto they will than adjust their speed accordingly with the
amount of rain.

they work by diffusion similar to the way cameras auto focus. the daylight is
diffused by the rain drops and the amount and quantity determines the frequency
of the wipe from manic to .5Hz

Hugh

PS the auto dipping feature is dammed good too..............
Sir Hugh of Bognor

--
I used to be an Egotistical Meglomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!

Hugh Gundersen


Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

"Florida NRA SW" > wrote
>> > I like to stick to facts.

Oh, BTW, here are some *REAL* facts; the total cost of
maintenance for our E34 '91 525i (recently retired after
minor traffic accident :-( ):
Date
Mileage
Problem
Cost
My labor

Sep-96
52,447
Brake Light Switch recall
$ -


Sep-96
52,447
Airbag ring recall
$ -


Oct-00
99,699
Radiator cap recall
$ -


Oct-00
99,699
Blowing Fuse
$ 100.15


Jan-92
1,200
1200 Mile service
$ 37.92


May-92
18,000
Inspection I
$ 285.81


Sep-92
22,800
Oil change
$ 24.96


Sep-92
22,800
Minor warranty stuff
$ -


Dec-92
24,717
Minor warranty stuff
$ -


Nov-93
36,854
Inspection II
$ 482.27


Nov-93
36,854
Fuel system recall
$ -


Nov-93
36,854
Electrical/Ignition recall
$ -


Apr-95
38,906
Engine miss/Check engine
$ 134.71


Jul-95
42,112
DME Recall
$ -


Jun-97
59,868
Inspection II
$ 499.44


Jun-97
60,086
O2 Sensor, Coolant hoses
$ 305.26


May-98
70,126
Cruise/throttle cable recall
$ -


May-98
70,126
Oil change
$ 62.93


May-98
70,666
Replace 2 coils
$ 297.40


Jul-99
86,164
Replace 4 coils
$ 489.94


Nov-99
91,032
Inspection II
$ 631.90


Nov-99
91,032
Brake Flush, Belts, Muffler
$ 895.78


Jun-00
96,452
CEL, O2 sensor
$ 395.05


Aug-01
110,016
Inspection I, fuse, Fan clutch, Brake Flush
$ 804.87


Sep-01
111,320
Thermostat
$ 53.88


Dec-01
113,190
Heater core, center muffler
$ 1,553.48


Feb-99
75,000
Coolant Level Sensor
$ 37.03
Yes

Jun-02
119,638
Inspection II, brake flush, valve cover gasket
$ 1,354.30


Mar-03
127,408
Water pump, thermostat, belts
$ 765.22


Oct-03
134,497
Front shocks, ball joints (labor)
$ 443.91


Oct-03
134,497
Front shocks, ball joints (parts)
$ 500.00


Oct-03
134,497
Rear shocks, ball joints (parts)
$ 250.00
Yes

Aug-04
140,904
Inspection I, Tests, speedo sensor, Fuel Sending Unit
$ 598.29


Jun-05
147,693
CEL, O2 sensor
$ 248.86


Dec-05
150,882
Radiator replacement
$ 656.19


Apr-06
160,830
Inspection II
$ 657.49


Aug-07
186,161
Inspection II
$ 762.75





$ 13,329.79




(This doesn't include oil changes every 3-5K miles that I did myself.)
As you can see, your conjecture based upon your "facts", that you will
have to spend $5,000-$6,000 per year has no basis in real facts.

FloydR

Let's try that paste again

"Floyd Rogers" > wrote
> "Florida NRA SW" > wrote
>>> > I like to stick to facts.
>
> Oh, BTW, here are some *REAL* facts; the total cost of
> maintenance for our E34 '91 525i (recently retired after
> minor traffic accident :-( ):
Date Mileage Problem Cost My labor
Sep-96 52,447 Brake Light Switch recall $-
Sep-96 52,447 Airbag ring recall $-
Oct-00 99,699 Radiator cap recall $-
Oct-00 99,699 Blowing Fuse $100.15
Jan-92 1,200 1200 Mile service $37.92
May-92 18,000 Inspection I $285.81
Sep-92 22,800 Oil change $24.96
Sep-92 22,800 Minor warranty stuff $-
Dec-92 24,717 Minor warranty stuff $-
Nov-93 36,854 Inspection II $482.27
Nov-93 36,854 Fuel system recall $-
Nov-93 36,854 Electrical/Ignition recall $-
Apr-95 38,906 Engine miss/Check engine $134.71
Jul-95 42,112 DME Recall $-
Jun-97 59,868 Inspection II $499.44
Jun-97 60,086 O2 Sensor, Coolant hoses $305.26
May-98 70,126 Cruise/throttle cable recall $-
May-98 70,126 Oil change $62.93
May-98 70,666 Replace 2 coils $297.40
Jul-99 86,164 Replace 4 coils $489.94
Nov-99 91,032 Inspection II $631.90
Nov-99 91,032 Brake Flush, Belts, Muffler $895.78
Jun-00 96,452 CEL, O2 sensor $395.05
Aug-01 110,016 Inspection I, fuse, Fan clutch, Brake Flush $804.87
Sep-01 111,320 Thermostat $53.88
Dec-01 113,190 Heater core, center muffler $1,553.48
Feb-99 75,000 Coolant Level Sensor $37.03 Yes
Jun-02 119,638 Inspection II, brake flush, valve cover gasket $1,354.30
Mar-03 127,408 Water pump, thermostat, belts $765.22
Oct-03 134,497 Front shocks, ball joints (labor) $443.91
Oct-03 134,497 Front shocks, ball joints (parts) $500.00
Oct-03 134,497 Rear shocks, ball joints (parts) $250.00 Yes
Aug-04 140,904 Inspection I, Tests, speedo sensor, Fuel Sending Unit
$598.29
Jun-05 147,693 CEL, O2 sensor $248.86
Dec-05 150,882 Radiator replacement $656.19
Apr-06 160,830 Inspection II $657.49
Aug-07 186,161 Inspection II $762.75
$13,329.79

> (This doesn't include oil changes every 3-5K miles that I did myself.)
> As you can see, your conjecture based upon your "facts", that you will
> have to spend $5,000-$6,000 per year has no basis in real facts.
>
> FloydR
>

Floyd Rogers > wrote:
>One more thing I forgot about CR & JDPower; because they don't
>differentiate between "bugs" and "features", they have lumped complaints
>about the usability of iDrive into "electrical" or other problems, which
>skews things considerably.
>
>Yeah, it sucks, but it's not broken.

It will be after the owner runs the car into a tree while paging through
menus trying to figure out how to change the volume on the radio....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hi Floyd,
I appreciate you posting this info. However it seems to show only
parts costs and no labor costs. However your parts costs come to
about the same cost per mile as my total cost. I see a patttern of
about $1k per 10k miles. This cost is rather high. If you add your
labor costs this makes your cost per mile even higher which only
proves my point!

I posted an E39 2002 525i sport with about 65k miles. So far a bit
less than $6k in parts AND labor. This happened in a time between 45k
and 65k ($6k of repairs).

I've owned 2 hondas (accord and crv), a mazda rx7 and ford mustang.
All of these had MUCH less repair/labor costs at 65k than the bmw.
This is what is upsetting me!! I feel like I've been exposed to
fraud. BMW, german engineering, etc, etc - the best in the world. Oh
great !

Then you see the repair bills by 65k miles (which isn't that much) and
the picture starts to come into focus. It's not a pretty site!!
I have friends who are professionals (lawyers, doctors, small business
owners) who also had bmw and mercedes autos and their experience was
similar to mine - unexpectly high repair bills due to parts wearing
out very soon - compared to other cars. Most will never buy a bmw or
mercedes again. Some are die-hard fans and even though they realize
the very high repair bills they stick with it. After a while it seems
like it's more of a head trip (I drive a Mercedes!! or that's MY BMW!)
JD Powers and Consumer reports only give support to our experiences.

http://nhtsa.gov/

You can also look here for more unbiased information/statistics. This
place collects data from all autos sold in the USA. When the problems
get bad enough, they are the ones who prompt the auto makers for
recalls. A technical publication is one step before a recall. An
auto with lots of technical pubs is usually a bad sign.
This information is collected from dealers across the USA and from
independant auto shops. Please verify what I'm saying by reading
their website.


Oskar




On Jul 3, 11:51*am, "Floyd Rogers" > wrote:
> Let's try that paste again
>
> "Floyd Rogers" > wrote> "Florida NRA SW" > wrote
> >>> > I like to stick to facts.
>
> > Oh, BTW, here are some *REAL* facts; the total cost of
> > maintenance for our E34 '91 525i (recently retired after
> > minor traffic accident :-( ):
>
> Date Mileage Problem *Cost *My labor
> Sep-96 52,447 Brake Light Switch recall *$-
> Sep-96 52,447 Airbag ring recall *$-
> Oct-00 99,699 Radiator cap recall *$-
> Oct-00 99,699 Blowing Fuse *$100.15
> Jan-92 1,200 1200 Mile service *$37.92
> May-92 18,000 Inspection I *$285.81
> Sep-92 22,800 Oil change *$24.96
> Sep-92 22,800 Minor warranty stuff *$-
> Dec-92 24,717 Minor warranty stuff *$-
> Nov-93 36,854 Inspection II *$482.27
> Nov-93 36,854 Fuel system recall *$-
> Nov-93 36,854 Electrical/Ignition recall *$-
> Apr-95 38,906 Engine miss/Check engine *$134.71
> Jul-95 42,112 DME Recall *$-
> Jun-97 59,868 Inspection II *$499.44
> Jun-97 60,086 O2 Sensor, Coolant hoses *$305.26
> May-98 70,126 Cruise/throttle cable recall *$-
> May-98 70,126 Oil change *$62.93
> May-98 70,666 Replace 2 coils *$297.40
> Jul-99 86,164 Replace 4 coils *$489.94
> Nov-99 91,032 Inspection II *$631.90
> Nov-99 91,032 Brake Flush, Belts, Muffler *$895.78
> Jun-00 96,452 CEL, O2 sensor *$395.05
> Aug-01 110,016 Inspection I, fuse, Fan clutch, Brake Flush *$804.87
> Sep-01 111,320 Thermostat *$53.88
> Dec-01 113,190 Heater core, center muffler *$1,553.48
> Feb-99 75,000 Coolant Level Sensor *$37.03 *Yes
> Jun-02 119,638 Inspection II, brake flush, valve cover gasket *$1,354.30
> Mar-03 127,408 Water pump, thermostat, belts *$765.22
> Oct-03 134,497 Front shocks, ball joints (labor) *$443.91
> Oct-03 134,497 Front shocks, ball joints (parts) *$500.00
> Oct-03 134,497 Rear shocks, ball joints (parts) *$250.00 *Yes
> Aug-04 140,904 Inspection I, Tests, speedo sensor, Fuel Sending Unit
> $598.29
> Jun-05 147,693 CEL, O2 sensor *$248.86
> Dec-05 150,882 Radiator replacement *$656.19
> Apr-06 160,830 Inspection II *$657.49
> Aug-07 186,161 Inspection II *$762.75
> * * $13,329.79
>
>
>
> > (This doesn't include oil changes every 3-5K miles that I did myself.)
> > As you can see, your conjecture based upon your "facts", that you will
> > have to spend $5,000-$6,000 per year has no basis in real facts.
>
> > FloydR

wrote:

>Hi Floyd,
>I appreciate you posting this info. However it seems to show only
>parts costs and no labor costs.

Try reading again while brain is engaged.

On Jul 3, 8:09*pm, dizzy > wrote:
> wrote:
> >Hi Floyd,
> >I appreciate you posting this info. *However it seems to show only
> >parts costs and no labor costs.
>
> Try reading again while brain is engaged.


Nice try, but most people don't fix their own cars!
For proper cost analysis parts AND labor should be included, not just
parts. So the 'I do my own labor' story is fine but the final cost is
misleading - it includes no labor.

Oskar

> wrote
On Jul 3, 8:09 pm, dizzy > wrote:
> wrote:
> >Hi Floyd,
> >I appreciate you posting this info. However it seems to show only
> >parts costs and no labor costs.
>
> Try reading again while brain is engaged.


Nice try, but most people don't fix their own cars!
For proper cost analysis parts AND labor should be included, not just
parts. So the 'I do my own labor' story is fine but the final cost is
misleading - it includes no labor.
----------------------
He was attempting to point out to you that, except for a few cases
where *my* labor was *specifically* called out (notice the "Yes"
in the last column), the costs listed are for parts *and* labor.

FloydR