GT4 - A First Look

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 04:43:43 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> wrote:

>What do you have against the DFP? It works like a champ w. GT4, it works
>like a champ w. a PC, and it looks the part (i.e., adult, not arcade).

Sorry Steve, you lost me. What's the "DFP"?

Driving Force Pro, the 2-1/2 turns lock-to-lock wheel that Logitech designed
for GT4 (abt. $100 "street"). Great price, great performance (high sampling
rate = excellent precision), iffy haptics (gears don't feel so smooth but
will presumably wear in after a hundred hours or so).

"Joe62" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 04:43:43 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> > wrote:
>
> >What do you have against the DFP? It works like a champ w. GT4, it works
> >like a champ w. a PC, and it looks the part (i.e., adult, not arcade).
>
> Sorry Steve, you lost me. What's the "DFP"?

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:37:43 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> wrote:

>Driving Force Pro...

Right, thanks, that does sound pretty good ... except that me TV and
PS2 is in the living room. I've had wheels in the past for my PC and I
love them, because they fit on my desk and I'm sitting up straight in
position to use the pedals.

I can't think of any good way to have a wheel set up in front of my
TV. Don't think the wife would go for a look like this:

http://www.force-dynamics.com/video.shtml

Seriously any suggestions for a good wheel setup in a living room
setting are appreciated. In the meantime I have ordered the
Thrustmaster analog-trigger controller, so I think that will be a big
improvement, I'll report back here once I've given it a go...

Just don't do what I did tonight.. removed all the furniture from the
living room, put the kitchen table in the middle of the room, moved
my heavy officechair from upstairs to the livingroom, fastened my
wheel to the kitchen table, started GT4, and then found out that GT4
doesn't support the Logitec Momo

Andre


On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:46:08 GMT, Joe62
> wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:37:43 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> wrote:
>
>>Driving Force Pro...
>
>Right, thanks, that does sound pretty good ... except that me TV and
>PS2 is in the living room. I've had wheels in the past for my PC and I
>love them, because they fit on my desk and I'm sitting up straight in
>position to use the pedals.
>
>I can't think of any good way to have a wheel set up in front of my
>TV. Don't think the wife would go for a look like this:
>
>http://www.force-dynamics.com/video.shtml
>
>Seriously any suggestions for a good wheel setup in a living room
>setting are appreciated. In the meantime I have ordered the
>Thrustmaster analog-trigger controller, so I think that will be a big
>improvement, I'll report back here once I've given it a go...

That's FUNNY, Andre! (If it wasn't so sad....)

P.S. The last time I tried it, GT3 supported the (U.S.) Logi Ferrari wheel.
Not all the buttons worked, but the wheel & pedals did.

"Andre Warringa" > wrote in message
...
> Just don't do what I did tonight.. removed all the furniture from the
> living room, put the kitchen table in the middle of the room, moved
> my heavy officechair from upstairs to the livingroom, fastened my
> wheel to the kitchen table, started GT4, and then found out that GT4
> doesn't support the Logitec Momo
>
> Andre
>
>
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:46:08 GMT, Joe62
> > wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:37:43 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Driving Force Pro...
> >
> >Right, thanks, that does sound pretty good ... except that me TV and
> >PS2 is in the living room. I've had wheels in the past for my PC and I
> >love them, because they fit on my desk and I'm sitting up straight in
> >position to use the pedals.
> >
> >I can't think of any good way to have a wheel set up in front of my
> >TV. Don't think the wife would go for a look like this:
> >
> >http://www.force-dynamics.com/video.shtml
> >
> >Seriously any suggestions for a good wheel setup in a living room
> >setting are appreciated. In the meantime I have ordered the
> >Thrustmaster analog-trigger controller, so I think that will be a big
> >improvement, I'll report back here once I've given it a go...
>

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:30:49 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> wrote:

>That's FUNNY, Andre! (If it wasn't so sad....)
>
>P.S. The last time I tried it, GT3 supported the (U.S.) Logi Ferrari wheel.
>Not all the buttons worked, but the wheel & pedals did.

The Momo works perfect with GT3 (and RBR, Ferrari Challenge, GT4
simply does not support it. Evil rumours say they made a deal with
Logitec to sell more of those plastic Driving Force wheels..

Btw, did you get your IB license yet? You get the ''Nike One'' concept
car, which is major fun on the Ring

Andre

No, I've been consumed w. other issues. The original idea was to do a
comparison revu for Car and Driver magazine w. GT4 and MS's "answer," Forza
Motorsport. I had thought GT4 would win hands down, but since Sony dropped
multiplayer, I'm not so sure. Of course, Forza still isn't out, and we
already know there won't be any decent wheels for it (Logi claims MS might
not even support FF in the next Xbox), so I won't be able to finish the test
for a few months, so it's on the back-burner for the nonce.

"Andre Warringa" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:30:49 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> > wrote:
>
> >That's FUNNY, Andre! (If it wasn't so sad....)
> >
> >P.S. The last time I tried it, GT3 supported the (U.S.) Logi Ferrari
wheel.
> >Not all the buttons worked, but the wheel & pedals did.
>
> The Momo works perfect with GT3 (and RBR, Ferrari Challenge, GT4
> simply does not support it. Evil rumours say they made a deal with
> Logitec to sell more of those plastic Driving Force wheels..
>
> Btw, did you get your IB license yet? You get the ''Nike One'' concept
> car, which is major fun on the Ring
>
> Andre

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:48:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> wrote:

>Motorsport. I had thought GT4 would win hands down, but since Sony dropped
>multiplayer, I'm not so sure.

Come on now. No one cares about console multuplayer but game reviewers
and Microsoft. At MOST ten percent of console gamers are even
connected. The idea that it's even important to a console game
(outside of multiplayer-focuses exceptions like Halo 2) is nothing
less than a myth invented by the gaming media.

If you look at the business case, as a game developer, there is
currently no justification for doing online for most games. The only
error Sony made with GT4 was including online from the beginning.

Well, when Papy launched Hawaii, you could have said only 10% of computer
gamers were online then too. A decade or so later, without the online
community, there would be NO computer auto racing to speak of.

But let's say yer right: only 10% of console gamers are online. That makes
it about 25 million online players. Or let's say that only 10% of console
racers are online. That puts the figure at about 10 million. That's
nothing to sneeze at...and it's a market that will continue to grow.

"Car guys" like the readers of Car and Driver, Road & Track etc., are, by
and large, computer illiterate. They *might* be coaxed to try a racing game
on a console (as opposed to a PC or even a Mac), but they'd rather compete
against carbon-based intelligence, not silicon. (All this is based on
well-known demo metrics.) Therefore, car guys are more likely to play
console racing games if they can race against flesh & blood opponents. The
holy grail or all racing games is to attract as many car guys as computer
geeks, thus doubling the market.

Sony and Microsoft each made 2 huge mistakes. Sony's was to include dial-up
in their online game plan, which seriously limits what they can do online
(maybe just as well: FPSs, flight sims and racing games don't work well on
consoles, thanks to controller issues). Microsoft's was not to include FF
in their psuedo-DirectX support, with the result that no wheel mfr. will
bother to make anything more than a Mad Katz, entry-level controller for
racing games. I know; I've interviewed them.

The market is there. Sony/Polyphony has sold 38 million copies of Gran
Turismo. At $50 a pop, that's $1,900,000,000 at retail. Compare that to
Star Wars, Spider-Man, Shrek, Titanic, Gone With the Wind, whatever...and
divide by the development cost. Now tell me Sony isn't interested in
attracting 10% of that universe to online gaming. Or that Logitech wouldn't
like to sell 10% of them $100 wheels.

Q.E.D.?

"Joe62" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:48:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"
> > wrote:
>
> >Motorsport. I had thought GT4 would win hands down, but since Sony
dropped
> >multiplayer, I'm not so sure.
>
> Come on now. No one cares about console multuplayer but game reviewers
> and Microsoft. At MOST ten percent of console gamers are even
> connected. The idea that it's even important to a console game
> (outside of multiplayer-focuses exceptions like Halo 2) is nothing
> less than a myth invented by the gaming media.
>
> If you look at the business case, as a game developer, there is
> currently no justification for doing online for most games. The only
> error Sony made with GT4 was including online from the beginning.

In article >, "Steve Smith" > wrote:

[online gaming]
>The market is there. Sony/Polyphony has sold 38 million copies of Gran
>Turismo. At $50 a pop, that's $1,900,000,000 at retail. Compare that to
>Star Wars, Spider-Man, Shrek, Titanic, Gone With the Wind, whatever...and
>divide by the development cost. Now tell me Sony isn't interested in
>attracting 10% of that universe to online gaming. Or that Logitech wouldn't
>like to sell 10% of them $100 wheels.

I'm not arguing with you. I too think they should have included
on-line, though I happen to be an avid racer who hasn't bought
into online. And even with it being the solution to the pathetic
AI of GT4, I most probably still wouldn't. Still, I would think
it would be a lucrative market.

Just a note, even with 38M sales, I'd suspect that a good third to
half of them are at best-seller prices, so perhaps an average sale
price of $35-40 ea? Still nothing to sneeze at. This is big
business.

Is it true that GT is Polyphony's only product? And are they
indeed 100% part of Sony?