145 Cloverleaf Problem

Hi All

My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.

The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It will
do this continuously until I start driving again.

At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights etc,
the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to about
3,000 - all on it's own.

Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can occur
during one trip as happened today.

The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but does
the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way connected with
this?? If not, any ideas ??

Thanks in advance

Paul

On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:50:58 +0100, "Paul"
<paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:

>My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>
>The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
>almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It will
>do this continuously until I start driving again.
>
>At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights etc,
>the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to about
>3,000 - all on it's own.
>
>Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can occur
>during one trip as happened today.
>
>The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but does
>the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way connected with
>this?? If not, any ideas ??

Sounds like the symptoms my 146 1.8 TS showed when the lambda sonde
failed. (Actually that's what it's called in Dutch - I'm not sure if
that's the English. Anyway: the thing that detects whether the fuel
mixture is acceptable.) Cost about 120 Euros to fix IIRC.

--
Stephen Poley

Stephen Poley wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:50:58 +0100, "Paul"
> <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:
>
>> My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>>
>> The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that
>> it almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000
>> rpm. It will do this continuously until I start driving again.
>>
>> At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at
>> lights etc, the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs
>> from idle to about 3,000 - all on it's own.
>>
>> Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can
>> occur during one trip as happened today.
>>
>> The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise
>> but does the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way
>> connected with this?? If not, any ideas ??
>
> Sounds like the symptoms my 146 1.8 TS showed when the lambda sonde
> failed. (Actually that's what it's called in Dutch - I'm not sure if
> that's the English. Anyway: the thing that detects whether the fuel
> mixture is acceptable.) Cost about 120 Euros to fix IIRC.

Was going to be my suggestion too - lambda sensor

"Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>
> The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
> almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It
> will do this continuously until I start driving again.
>
> At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights etc,
> the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to
> about 3,000 - all on it's own.
>
> Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can occur
> during one trip as happened today.
>
> The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but
> does the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way connected
> with
> this??

No, I doubt it. If it's not the lambda sensor, it's almost certainly a
fault in the air mass meter or (and this is my bet if it's a fly by wire at
all) the throttle butterfly is bunged up and not closing properly.

Of course, it might just be a dodgy connector.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Hi my 145 clovreleaf ran similar when the lambda was buggered , repaced it
and it was like a new car , got mine off ebay it's the 4 wire one !


"Catman" > wrote in message
m...
> "Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>>
>> The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
>> almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It
>> will do this continuously until I start driving again.
>>
>> At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights
>> etc,
>> the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to
>> about 3,000 - all on it's own.
>>
>> Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can
>> occur
>> during one trip as happened today.
>>
>> The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but
>> does the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way connected
>> with
>> this??
>
> No, I doubt it. If it's not the lambda sensor, it's almost certainly a
> fault in the air mass meter or (and this is my bet if it's a fly by wire
> at
> all) the throttle butterfly is bunged up and not closing properly.
>
> Of course, it might just be a dodgy connector.
>
> --
> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Thanks guys - a couple of things to take a look at.

I had the air mass meter replaced about 3 years ago after a lot of messing
around and head-scratching by the local alfa dealer - seem to remember it
was an expensive job (around GBP300).

I'll do some checking and let you all know.

Thanks again.

Paul


"mad eddie" > wrote in message
...
> Hi my 145 clovreleaf ran similar when the lambda was buggered , repaced it
> and it was like a new car , got mine off ebay it's the 4 wire one !
>
>
> "Catman" > wrote in message
> m...
>> "Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>>>
>>> The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
>>> almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It
>>> will do this continuously until I start driving again.
>>>
>>> At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights
>>> etc,
>>> the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to
>>> about 3,000 - all on it's own.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can
>>> occur
>>> during one trip as happened today.
>>>
>>> The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but
>>> does the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way connected
>>> with
>>> this??
>>
>> No, I doubt it. If it's not the lambda sensor, it's almost certainly a
>> fault in the air mass meter or (and this is my bet if it's a fly by wire
>> at
>> all) the throttle butterfly is bunged up and not closing properly.
>>
>> Of course, it might just be a dodgy connector.
>>
>> --
>> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
>> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
>> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
>> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
>> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
>
>

Look on ebay and you can get new air mass sensors for about £70 !





"Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote in message
...
> Thanks guys - a couple of things to take a look at.
>
> I had the air mass meter replaced about 3 years ago after a lot of messing
> around and head-scratching by the local alfa dealer - seem to remember it
> was an expensive job (around GBP300).
>
> I'll do some checking and let you all know.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Paul
>
>
> "mad eddie" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi my 145 clovreleaf ran similar when the lambda was buggered , repaced
>> it and it was like a new car , got mine off ebay it's the 4 wire one !
>>
>>
>> "Catman" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> "Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All
>>>>
>>>> My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>>>>
>>>> The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
>>>> almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It
>>>> will do this continuously until I start driving again.
>>>>
>>>> At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights
>>>> etc,
>>>> the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to
>>>> about 3,000 - all on it's own.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can
>>>> occur
>>>> during one trip as happened today.
>>>>
>>>> The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but
>>>> does the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way connected
>>>> with
>>>> this??
>>>
>>> No, I doubt it. If it's not the lambda sensor, it's almost certainly a
>>> fault in the air mass meter or (and this is my bet if it's a fly by wire
>>> at
>>> all) the throttle butterfly is bunged up and not closing properly.
>>>
>>> Of course, it might just be a dodgy connector.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
>>> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
>>> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
>>> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
>>> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
>>
>>
>
>

"mad eddie" > wrote in message
...
> Look on ebay and you can get new air mass sensors for about £70 !
>
>
>
>
>
> "Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote in message
> ...
>> Thanks guys - a couple of things to take a look at.
>>
>> I had the air mass meter replaced about 3 years ago after a lot of
>> messing around and head-scratching by the local alfa dealer - seem to
>> remember it was an expensive job (around GBP300).
>>
>> I'll do some checking and let you all know.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> "mad eddie" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi my 145 clovreleaf ran similar when the lambda was buggered , repaced
>>> it and it was like a new car , got mine off ebay it's the 4 wire one !
>>>
>>>
>>> "Catman" > wrote in message
>>> m...
>>>> "Paul" <paul.crisp[at]dsl[dot]pipex[dot]com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>
>>>>> My 1996 2.0 Cloverleaf has developed a very annoying habit.
>>>>>
>>>>> The engine, when returning to idle, will drop to such low revs that it
>>>>> almost stalls - then will over-correct and rev to about 2,000 rpm. It
>>>>> will do this continuously until I start driving again.
>>>>>
>>>>> At other times, again when sitting in traffic or stationary at lights
>>>>> etc,
>>>>> the engine will just pick up and gradually increase revs from idle to
>>>>> about 3,000 - all on it's own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes, the idle is perfectly normal but all three conditions can
>>>>> occur
>>>>> during one trip as happened today.
>>>>>
>>>>> The cam variator is due for replacement to cure the 'diesel' noise but
>>>>> does the panel think the over-revving symptoms are in any way
>>>>> connected
>>>>> with
>>>>> this??
>>>>
>>>> No, I doubt it. If it's not the lambda sensor, it's almost certainly a
>>>> fault in the air mass meter or (and this is my bet if it's a fly by
>>>> wire at
>>>> all) the throttle butterfly is bunged up and not closing properly.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, it might just be a dodgy connector.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
>>>> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
>>>> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
>>>> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
>>>> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Looks like it was the Lambda sensor - failed the MOT on Wednesday for
emmissions, got the sensor replaced and it sailed through and the dodgy
idling seems to have been cured too!

So now we know.

Paul