Letter from GM

> Dear XXXX XXXXX,
>
> You made the right choice when you put your confidence in General
> Motors, and we appreciate your past support. I want to assure you that
> we are making our best vehicles ever, and we have exciting plans for
> the future. But we need your help now. Simply put, we need you to join
> us to let Congress know that a bridge loan to help U.S. automakers
> also helps strengthen the U.S. economy and preserve millions of
> American jobs.
Sorry but I respectively submit, if you cannot compete in the free
market then the market says "You die!". Sorry, that's how it is. You
should have thought about the preservation of American jobs when you
were pouring out the 6/MPG SUVs as the price of oil was shooting to
$140/barrel. Face it, you screwed up - time to pay the piper. And I say
this as a proud leaser of a 2008 Corvette.
> Despite what you may be hearing, we are not asking Congress for a
> bailout but rather a loan that will be repaid.
Great. Loans come from banks. There are many banks and other fine
financial institutions who have lots of money right now. Go ask them for
a loan if it's truly a loan that you seek. Of course you'll have to
supply evidence that you are viable and trustworthy. Good luck.
> The U.S. economy is at a crossroads due to the worldwide credit
> crisis, and all Americans are feeling the effects of the worst
> economic downturn in 75 years. Despite our successful efforts to
> restructure, reduce costs and enhance liquidity, U.S. auto sales rely
> on access to credit, which is all but frozen through traditional channels.
Such is business. Such is the same story for every other business. You
are not special and not deserving of special treatment.
> The consequences of the domestic auto industry collapsing would far
> exceed the $25 billion loan needed to bridge the current crisis.
> According to a recent study by the Center for Automotive Research:
An obviously non-biased source. Please spare me!
> • One in 10 American jobs depends on U.S. automakers
> • Nearly 3 million jobs are at immediate risk
> • U.S. personal income could be reduced by $150 billion
> • The tax revenue lost over 3 years would be more than $156 billion
It's time for such businesses to face reality.
> Discussions are now underway in Washington, D.C., concerning loans to
> support U.S. carmakers. I am asking for your support in this vital
> effort by contacting your state representatives.
Again, you will get no special treatment from me.
> Please take a few minutes to go to www.gmfactsandfiction.com
> <http://email.generalmotors.bfi0.com/W0RH007CBE0BF9F8E7866290A65960>,
> where we have made it easy for you to contact your U.S. senators and
> representatives. Just click on the "I'm a Concerned American" link
> under the "Mobilize Now" section, and enter your name and ZIP code to
> send a personalized e-mail stating your support for the U.S.
> automotive industry.
Sorry but no. If I wish to contact my representatives regarding your
issue I know how to use my own email client and don't need your assistance.
> Let me assure you that General Motors has made dramatic improvements
> over the last 10 years. In fact, we are leading the industry with
> award-winning vehicles like the Chevrolet Malibu, Cadillac CTS, Buick
> Enclave, Pontiac G8, GMC Acadia, Chevy Tahoe Hybrid, Saturn AURA and
> more. We offer 18 models with an EPA estimated 30 MPG highway or
> better — more than Toyota or Honda. GM has 6 hybrids in market and 3
> more by mid-2009. GM has closed the quality gap with the imports, and
> today we are putting our best quality vehicles on the road.
Why do you feel the need to justify your existence to me? I'm a smart
cookie. I know what you do and what you don't do and I'm very capable or
making up my own mind. I'm a firm believe in the free market and not
only that but the unfettered market. If you are indeed worthy you will
survive and you will not need my assistance to do so. You will do so of
your own merit or perish! That's how the free market rolls and far be it
from me to interfere with its operation. Good luck, I sincerely wish
that for you. But begging for handouts will get you nowhere with me.
> Please share this information with friends and family using the link
> on the site.
Ah, no! I don't try to tell my friends and family what to do or how to
think - unlike you.
> Thank you for helping keep our economy viable.
The economy will be as viable as the market allows. You're not asking to
keep our economy viable - you're asking for a handout to keep your
company afloat. I'm not stupid and you have not fooled me. Good luck, I
mean that sincerely, but spare me your righteousness - it didn't work.
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
What was the best thing before sliced bread?

On Nov 20, 3:02 am, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
>
> > Despite what you may be hearing, we are not asking Congress for a
> > bailout but rather a loan that will be repaid.
>
> Great. Loans come from banks. There are many banks and other fine
> financial institutions who have lots of money right now.

Well, that's part of the problem. Loans aren't coming from banks at
the moment.

I love how the CEOs of the "big three" go to DC to plead for a
bailout... and they fly there in their own private jets. AIG takes
$500k of tax payer dollars for an executive retreat, complete with spa
treatments, massages, and fine wines. Lehman (?) CEO makes $22
million for 11 days of work.

These people have completely lost touch with reality.

We all pay for it one way or another, but taking it out of my income
taxes is perhaps the most insulting way to do it.

On Nov 20, 11:41*am, The Reverend Natural Light
> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 3:02 am, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Despite what you may be hearing, we are not asking Congress for a
> > > bailout but rather a loan that will be repaid.
>
> > Great. Loans come from banks. There are many banks and other fine
> > financial institutions who have lots of money right now.
>
> Well, that's part of the problem. *Loans aren't coming from banks at
> the moment.
>
> I love how the CEOs of the "big three" go to DC to plead for a
> bailout... and they fly there in their own private jets. *AIG takes
> $500k of tax payer dollars for an executive retreat, complete with spa
> treatments, massages, and fine wines. *Lehman (?) CEO makes $22
> million for 11 days of work.
>
> These people have completely lost touch with reality.
>
> We all pay for it one way or another, but taking it out of my income
> taxes is perhaps the most insulting way to do it.

These CEO's are the epitomie of entitlement. How could anyone spend
$22,000,000 in their lifetime, even if they lived large ? A person
could live extremely well just off of the interest on $22 million.

The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
> On Nov 20, 3:02 am, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
>>> Despite what you may be hearing, we are not asking Congress for a
>>> bailout but rather a loan that will be repaid.
>> Great. Loans come from banks. There are many banks and other fine
>> financial institutions who have lots of money right now.
> Well, that's part of the problem. Loans aren't coming from banks at
> the moment.
Loans still happen. They just happen with people and businesses that are
more of a sure thing. One's that have their acts together. That's why
Congress voted down the auto bail out.
> I love how the CEOs of the "big three" go to DC to plead for a
> bailout... and they fly there in their own private jets.
Listen they had those private jets long ago and they are for business
use. They probably save the companies lots of money over regular
commercial air travel over the years. But now you complain about them. A
very inconsistent stance my friend.
> AIG takes $500k of tax payer dollars for an executive retreat,
> complete with spa treatments, massages, and fine wines. Lehman (?) CEO
> makes $22 million for 11 days of work.
$500k, or 22 million is extreme chump change when stacked up against
$700 BILLION. That's equivalent to having a 22 foot diameter hole in a
damn spouting water and you're worrying about a 1/100 inch leak!
> These people have completely lost touch with reality.
I agree - you have! Especially since you only see the 1/100 inch hole
and are ignoring the 22 foot one!
> We all pay for it one way or another, but taking it out of my income
> taxes is perhaps the most insulting way to do it.
If you truly believe we all do pay for it one way or another then it
doesn't matter how they steal it now does it?
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Old quarterbacks never die, they just fade back and pass

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:09:35 -0700, Andrew DeFaria
> wrote:

>The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 3:02 am, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
>>>> Despite what you may be hearing, we are not asking Congress for a
>>>> bailout but rather a loan that will be repaid.
>>> Great. Loans come from banks. There are many banks and other fine
>>> financial institutions who have lots of money right now.
>> Well, that's part of the problem. Loans aren't coming from banks at
>> the moment.


>Loans still happen. They just happen with people and businesses that are
>more of a sure thing.

Agreed but that's not many now.

On Nov 20, 11:09 pm, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
>
> Listen they had those private jets long ago and they are for business
> use. They probably save the companies lots of money over regular
> commercial air travel over the years. But now you complain about them. A
> very inconsistent stance my friend.

WTF? The head of GM flew to DC in the company Learjet. Cost to GM:
$20k. Cost for a seat on a commercial airliner, even first class:
Less than $1k.

It may be a drop in the bucket, but if I fail at my job, I don't get
rewarded with cushy perks. He was there to beg for money. Taxpayer
money. Call it symbolic, but I don't want one drop of my taxes going
for someone's private jet. Fly coach like the rest of us.

>
> I agree - you have! Especially since you only see the 1/100 inch hole
> and are ignoring the 22 foot one!

The executives of these financial firms are known for taking 50%+ of
the company profit home in their own pockets. We're talking about
firms with 100k employees, and half the company earnings go for
bonuses of a dozen people. The latest to go under (sorry, losing
track of which is which) handed out a quarter of a BILLION dollars in
executive bonuses last year.

>
> If you truly believe we all do pay for it one way or another then it
> doesn't matter how they steal it now does it?
>

Not like I have much choice, but if personal earnings are going to
bonuses and UAW contracts, I might as well get a new Corvette out of
it.

drb wrote:
>> Loans still happen. They just happen with people and businesses that
>> are more of a sure thing.
> Agreed but that's not many now.
How many do they need?
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than standing in
a garage makes you a car.

The Reverend Natural Light wrote:

> On Nov 20, 11:09 pm, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
>> Listen they had those private jets long ago and they are for business
>> use. They probably save the companies lots of money over regular
>> commercial air travel over the years. But now you complain about
>> them. A very inconsistent stance my friend.
> WTF? The head of GM flew to DC in the company Learjet. Cost to GM:
> $20k. Cost for a seat on a commercial airliner, even first class: Less
> than $1k.
Probably scheduled 30 days in advance, etc. Yes, WTF! First off I'm
highly suspect of the claim that it really cost $20K. They also talk
about $1K toilet seats in the military but in reality it only looks that
way because of accounting tricks. Even so, point is 2 weeks ago, 2
months ago or 2 years ago, whatever the actual cost was it still was
about that much back then. And back then you didn't give a ****. So why
is it relevant now. Plus exactly what faction of a fraction of a
fraction of a percent is even $20k when compared to $700 *BILLION!!!*
You're focusing on the wrong thing.
> It may be a drop in the bucket, but if I fail at my job, I don't get
> rewarded with cushy perks.
Then take up being a CEO! I mean if it's so ****ing easy then why aren't
you doing it? Simple: It ain't that easy and you're unqualified. Yet you
see no problem in criticizing others for doing some thing that you can't
even manage to do yourself.
> He was there to beg for money.
So what!
> Taxpayer money.
As every other lobbyist does. As you could to yourself. Again so what!
> Call it symbolic,
Yes, focus on the symbolic mysticism of the problem and that's one sure
fire way of getting reamed up the ass.
> but I don't want one drop of my taxes going for someone's private jet.
Yet you probably own a car and thereby have contributed your money
anyway directly through sales. You're being overly emotional, irrational
and foolish to complain about 1/1000000000 of one percent of those $2k
that went for the flight. Indeed if your real contribution come to even
$0.02 I'd be every surprised.
> Fly coach like the rest of us.
Just as soon as the rest of you are CEO's or similar. Truth is they
ain't you and you ain't them. Again, you're focusing on the minuscule
symbolism of the situation and showing your irrational emotionalism
instead of remaining calm, looking at the real money, the big picture
and thinking with your head.
>> I agree - you have! Especially since you only see the 1/100 inch hole
>> and are ignoring the 22 foot one!
> The executives of these financial firms are known for taking 50%+ of
> the company profit home in their own pockets.
So what! We're still talking 1/200 of an inch of a hole compared to a 22
foot one!
> We're talking about firms with 100k employees, and half the company
> earnings go for bonuses of a dozen people.
Again, so what! Ain't nobody holding a gun to any one of those 100k
employees and making them work there. Tell ya what wise guy! If you
think you can do so much better why don't you quit working there and
start your own car company?
> The latest to go under (sorry, losing track of which is which) handed
> out a quarter of a BILLION dollars in executive bonuses last year.
Yeah again, but so what! Even $250 million dollars is exactly what
percentage of $700 *BILLION* (with a B)?!? Obviously you failed your
math courses.
>> If you truly believe we all do pay for it one way or another then it
>> doesn't matter how they steal it now does it?
> Not like I have much choice,
Great so then it doesn't matter to you. Then why are we continuing to
have this conversation?
> but if personal earnings are going to bonuses and UAW contracts, I
> might as well get a new Corvette out of it.
That's not how the world works son.
--
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Why are there 5 syllables in the word monosyllabic?

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:17:30 -0700, Andrew DeFaria
> wrote:

>drb wrote:
>>> Loans still happen. They just happen with people and businesses that
>>> are more of a sure thing.
>> Agreed but that's not many now.
>How many do they need?


Enough to make people / businesses have confidence in our system again
which many analysts say is needed to bring our financial system more
normal.

On Nov 21, 10:31*pm, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
> The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 11:09 pm, Andrew DeFaria > wrote:
> >> Listen they had those private jets long ago and they are for business
> >> use. They probably save the companies lots of money over regular
> >> commercial air travel over the years. But now you complain about
> >> them. A very inconsistent stance my friend.
> > WTF? The head of GM flew to DC in the company Learjet. Cost to GM:
> > $20k. Cost for a seat on a commercial airliner, even first class: Less
> > than $1k.
>
> Probably scheduled 30 days in advance, etc. Yes, WTF! First off I'm
> highly suspect of the claim that it really cost $20K. They also talk
> about $1K toilet seats in the military but in reality it only looks that
> way because of accounting tricks. Even so, point is 2 weeks ago, 2
> months ago or 2 years ago, whatever the actual cost was it still was
> about that much back then. And back then you didn't give a ****. So why
> is it relevant now. Plus exactly what faction of a fraction of a
> fraction of a percent is even $20k when compared to $700 *BILLION!!!*
> You're focusing on the wrong thing.> It may be a drop in the bucket, but if I fail at my job, I don't get
> > rewarded with cushy perks.
>
> Then take up being a CEO! I mean if it's so ****ing easy then why aren't
> you doing it? Simple: It ain't that easy and you're unqualified. Yet you
> see no problem in criticizing others for doing some thing that you can't
> even manage to do yourself.> He was there to beg for money.
> So what!
> > Taxpayer money.
>
> As every other lobbyist does. As you could to yourself. Again so what!> Call it symbolic,
>
> Yes, focus on the symbolic mysticism of the problem and that's one sure
> fire way of getting reamed up the ass.> but I don't want one drop of my taxes going for someone's private jet.
>
> Yet you probably own a car and thereby have contributed your money
> anyway directly through sales. You're being overly emotional, irrational
> and foolish to complain about 1/1000000000 of one percent of those $2k
> that went for the flight. Indeed if your real contribution come to even
> $0.02 I'd be every surprised.> Fly coach like the rest of us.
>
> Just as soon as the rest of you are CEO's or similar. Truth is they
> ain't you and you ain't them. Again, you're focusing on the minuscule
> symbolism of the situation and showing your irrational emotionalism
> instead of remaining calm, looking at the real money, the big picture
> and thinking with your head.>> I agree - you have! Especially since you only see the 1/100 inch hole
> >> and are ignoring the 22 foot one!
> > The executives of these financial firms are known for taking 50%+ of
> > the company profit home in their own pockets.
>
> So what! We're still talking 1/200 of an inch of a hole compared to a 22
> foot one!> We're talking about firms with 100k employees, and half the company
> > earnings go for bonuses of a dozen people.
>
> Again, so what! Ain't nobody holding a gun to any one of those 100k
> employees and making them work there. Tell ya what wise guy! If you
> think you can do so much better why don't you quit working there and
> start your own car company?> The latest to go under (sorry, losing track of which is which) handed
> > out a quarter of a BILLION dollars in executive bonuses last year.
>
> Yeah again, but so what! Even $250 million dollars is exactly what
> percentage of $700 *BILLION* (with a B)?!? Obviously you failed your
> math courses.>> If you truly believe we all do pay for it one way or another then it
> >> doesn't matter how they steal it now does it?
> > Not like I have much choice,
>
> Great so then it doesn't matter to you. Then why are we continuing to
> have this conversation?> but if personal earnings are going to bonuses and UAW contracts, I
> > might as well get a new Corvette out of it.
>
> That's not how the world works son.
> --
> Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
> Why are there 5 syllables in the word monosyllabic?

In Washington, where I live and work, it is different. It is all
about appearances, facts be damned.

The sunk cost of the jet on the runway is moot. The operating costs
come into play. I believe $20 to fly a bunch of staffers, lawyers,
and executives on the corporate jets made economic sense. Last minute
commercial tickets, time lost and all that would have well exceeded
the $20K they purported to spend. So they were economically astute.

From a PR standpoint, the appearance created by beggars flying into
Washington in private jets with tin cups in hand, was politically
stupid.

Congress has several FedEx planes out at Dulles for their private
use. Does it not seem odd that they can be criticizing the CEOs for
doing the same thing? No. Congress has the gold and he or she who
has the gold makes the rules.

Bob Drake
BLUE C5 (Virginia)
Retired Federal Executive who flew on some Govt jets and helicopters