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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story....
Keywords: Honda Civic LX 1999 D16Y7 Oxygen Sensor P0135 ODBII
Holly smokes! Panic! The Check Engine light is on. First time that happened, pulled into a petrol station and put in more oil. That did not solve the problem and made no difference. That was about a year ago. Since then I have learned to control my panic and be more cool ... "the name's Bond, James Bond." First time round, took the car to Honda. After $US 105 light was out no clue what was wrong. One month later, light on again. Bought an Actron CP9175 analyzer and have never looked back. The fault turned out to be a wiring rubbing against a belt. Re-clipped the wire and the light went out. Two years later when that Check Engine Light came on, I was neither shaken nor stirred. Driving home from work and that dam idiot light come .... Arrgghhh Check Engine Light. Ok. Cool. Think James Bond. Get home and connect up the analyzer. The scan tool diagnostic connector is just above your left leg shin when you are sitting in the driver's seat, it is on the wall up against the steering wheel overhang. The code that comes up is P0135 (with a zero not a "O"). This means "Primary heated Oxygen Sensor heater circuit fault". In the car this is the Oxygen Sensor uppermost before the catalytic converter. When you open the bonnet (or hood), it is the sensor uppermost before the catalytic converter. The Oxygen Sensor is connected to the ECM / PCM with a connector that sits on top of the engine. To disconnect this connector you need to pop the plastic clip on top. Then ease out gently the ECM / PCM connector side out. I found using a screw driver helped to ease it off. The other side of the connector is connected to the oxygen sensor and is attached to the engine block via a clip underneath. To detach this you need to reach under the clip near the front and lift up the release catch. Then ease this off. Looking at the connector to the oxygen sensor, with the Attach to Engine clip on the bottom, check the resistance between the bottom two pins with an electrical multimeter. It should be between 10 to 40 ohms. In my case I had an open circuit. You also need to check for a short between either of these pins and the body of the oxygen sensor i.e. ground / battery negative terminal. If you have a short, then you need a new oxygen sensor. OK so it looks like I need a new oxygen sensor. Recliped the connector and set things back. Note you can drive the car even with the Primary oxygen sensor disconnected. In this case the PGM / ECM computer will use a default internal value. Your fuel consumption will be slightly worse. In my case I actually could not tell the difference. The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch BS13007 which I bought from AutoZone for $US 90. You can get these cheaper on the net at about $US 75 but I wanted the assurance that if it was not the right one, I could return it without too much hassle. The OEM one in the Honda is in fact a Denso Oxygen sensor. I went with Bosch mainly because it was the one in stock at the AutoZone shop. It comes with a 1-year guarantee. The guy at AutoZone was actually pretty good. Check to make sure I had the right oxygen sensor and also recommended the right Oxygen Sensor ratchet tool. Tools you need are an Oxygen Sensor socket; this is a socket with a slit in it for the Oxygen Sensor wire. The one you need is the one with the 1/2 inch drive ratchet hole offset on the side. The ones with the 1/2 drive ratchet whole on top were too long to maneuver onto the Oxygen sensor due to the proximity of the radiator hoses. The other thing I bought was some PB Blaster oil penetrate to help loosen up bolts and a tube of high-temperature anti seize compound Back at home time to change the oxygen sensor while the engine was still warm-ish. There are lots of theories as to if a hot, warm or cold engine makes this easier. My take on it is you want the engine warmish, to hot and you fry yourself. And cold makes getting the sensor out of the exhaust manifold a bitch. I first disconnected the battery to make sure I did not short out any electronics and to make sure the car would not start on me. I then I disconnected the Oxygen sensor wire socked. Now take off the two bolts on the exhaust heat shield and remove that. You may need gloves to do this because it is sort of hot. Leather garden gloves work well. My bolts were sort of rusty. And the 12mm wrench socket stuck to the bolts a bit. A small drop of WD-40 or PB Blaster made this problem go away. Take off the heat shield and carefully maneuver it past the Oxygen sensor and the radiator hoses. It is tight but it will come out. Thread the Oxygen sensor wire past through the heat shield and place the heat shield to one side. You can now see the Oxygen Sensor. Spray some PB Blaster onto the sensor and exhaust manifold join. I think the PB helps loosen things up a bit, BUT also if you spray slighty more on the sensor, it cools the sensor more than the surrounding exhaust manifold and makes it contract faster and hence easier to get out. Place the socket wrench on the Oxygen sensor first. Then connect up the ratchet. The socket does not stick to the ratchet as with other sockets, and you will lose the socket in the depths of the engine .... like me the first time around if you try and balance it on the socket wrench. Then tug and try and loosen the sensor. Mine luckly came out easily. Other people I have read needed breaker bars and a lot more force. I then put extra anti seize onto the new sensor, taking care to keep it on the threads only and away from the business end of the sensor. The sensor did come with some anti-seize, but I added more and smoothed it over to ensure a nice even coating. Put the sensor in, making sure the tip does not touch anything oily. Re-assembly is the reverse of everything up to now. The bosch sensor wire did not come with the rubber grommet that helps secure the wire to engine clip and is longer in length. I clipped back the wire connector clip, and used a few cable ties to secure the wire away from the exhaust heat shield and radiator fan. Hooked up the battery ..... Hmmm moment of truth ..... Ignition stage II. Clear the codes with the Actron. Then hit the starter. Engine fires and the Check Engine Light remains off. Mission accomplished James. Hope this is helpful to some one .... Good luck. Best, Mike. |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....
Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.
OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic at https://www.automedicsupply.com "hobbes" > wrote > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....
"courseincivics" <courseincivics@jfdsjlsjz> wrote
> "Elle" > wrote >> OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your >> Civic >> at https://www.automedicsupply.com > > Do they only sell 02 sensors? Whenever I go to the site, > I get redirected > to a page that says oxygensensors.com, although it appears > to be owned by > automedicsupply.com. The automedicsupply.com site has been this way ever since I started using it a few years ago. I have always only been able to locate oxygen sensors at this site. Googling shows there's some evidence that, at least in the late 1990s, Auto Medic Supply sold other things. There is a contact phone number and email addy at the site, if you're looking for other things. OTOH many other online sites sell OEM Honda parts. See suggestions at http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html . In addition, online sales by local dealers has really picked up (with great prices for parts, for a change, by dealers). One can often find one's local dealer has an online site, call the parts department, and ask for the internet price. |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....
On Jan 12, 1:17*pm, "Elle" > wrote:
> Bosch *O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper. > > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com > > "hobbes" > wrote > > > > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Hi Elle, Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while now with the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that much of a car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type. Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages of the Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big differences. Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time around. Is the Denso also a Planar type? Best, Mike. |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....
Hi Mike, what I recall from posts here is that (1) the Bosch
O2 sensors seem not to send a very good signal to the ECU, ultimately seeming to throw off fuel efficiency; and (2) the Bosch's fail sooner. Re "planar O2 sensors," you know as much or more than I on them, and I would be googling. From reading here and my general reflections, I think it's okay to just wait until the Bosch dies, assuming the car seems to run fine, which you say yours does. Worrying about say, the effects on the Cat Converter seems overboard. But I'd go OEM next time for sure, especially since you can get one pretty cheap from the Auto Medic source. Bear in mind I am a cheapskate. In my adult life I have typically started by buying the cheap stuff. Some works fine. Others support the adage, "You get what you pay for." So where I now go OEM for my 91 Civic: --All electrical ignition parts (plugs, wires, dizzy cap and rotor, igniter, coil). Believe me, I have used non-OEM with all these except maybe the plugs, and the lifetimes and performance were worse. --Timing belt replacement parts (belt, water pump, tensioner, crank and cam shaft seals) --Alternators (but would go with rebuilt OEM ones, assuming a brush replacement did not work) --Most anything electrical, especially the O2 sensor Non-OEM: --Air filter --Fuel filter --Anti-freeeze (will only use orange Havoline though) --Radiator, from reading here, aftermarket appears to be fine --Alternator and power steering belts (dunno if non-OEM is wise, but so far, so good) "hobbes" > wrote On Jan 12, 1:17 pm, "Elle" > wrote: > Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper. > > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com > > "hobbes" > wrote > > > > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted > > text - > > - Show quoted text - Hi Elle, Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while now with the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that much of a car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type. Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages of the Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big differences. Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time around. Is the Denso also a Planar type? Best, Mike. |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....
On Jan 15, 11:43*am, "Elle" >
wrote: > Hi Mike, what I recall from posts here is that (1) the Bosch > O2 sensors seem not to send a very good signal to the ECU, > ultimately seeming to throw off fuel efficiency; and (2) the > Bosch's fail sooner. Re "planar O2 sensors," you know as > much or more than I on them, and I would be googling. > > From reading here and my general reflections, I think it's > okay to just wait until the Bosch dies, assuming the car > seems to run fine, which you say yours does. Worrying about > say, the effects on the Cat Converter seems overboard. But > I'd go OEM next time for sure, especially since you can get > one pretty cheap from the Auto Medic source. > > Bear in mind I am a cheapskate. In my adult life I have > typically started by buying the cheap stuff. Some works > fine. Others support the adage, "You get what you pay for." > > So where I now go OEM for my 91 Civic: > --All electrical ignition parts (plugs, wires, dizzy cap and > rotor, igniter, coil). Believe me, I have used non-OEM with > all these except maybe the plugs, and the lifetimes and > performance were worse. > --Timing belt replacement parts (belt, water pump, > tensioner, crank and cam shaft seals) > --Alternators (but would go with rebuilt OEM ones, assuming > a brush replacement did not work) > --Most anything electrical, especially the O2 sensor > > Non-OEM: > --Air filter > --Fuel filter > --Anti-freeeze (will only use orange Havoline though) > --Radiator, from reading here, aftermarket appears to be > fine > --Alternator and power steering belts (dunno if non-OEM is > wise, but so far, so good) > > "hobbes" > wrote > On Jan 12, 1:17 pm, "Elle" > > > wrote: > > Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper. > > > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic > > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com > > > "hobbes" > wrote > > > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted > > > text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Hi Elle, > > Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while > now with > the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that > much of a > car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type. > > Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages > of the > Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big > differences. > Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time > around. Is > the Denso also a Planar type? > > Best, Mike. Hi Elle, Thanks for the information. Will see how far I get. I also found out some interesting stuff about Oxygen Sensors. And I think I know why people buying non OEM ones are having issues. In a nutshell an Oxygen Sensor has a certain sensitivity which is related to: 1) The Spinell layer microporosity. Ths Spninell layer is a protection layer sprayed onto the Zicronia to protect it. The ticker the layer the more protection, the lower the sensitivity 2) The number of slits on the outer casing. More holes and slits, the more exposed the sensor is, and hence you get more response voltage. But it degrades faster. Then the sensitivity needed is related to the distance of the sensor to the cyliners. So one that is position futher away needs to be more sensitive. And that distance is related to the velocity and temperature of the exhaust. If you have a turbo, high heat and fast exhaust, that sensor needs to be more protected and further away from the cylinders. So in a nutshell it is important to get the right Sensor for your car. I think it is better to stay away from "Universal" sensors, and get one which is within the OEM specs, be it a Bosch, Denso etc. That will have the right number of holes / slits and Spinell layer coating for (a) big enough voltage output to the ECM and (b) effective use longevity. I.E. You need to look very carefully at all the Oxygen Sensors and pick one which is OEM replacement type for your car. Here is a link I found which I think is rather good on this topic. http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may98/techtips.htm It also mentions that the ECM compensates for the Spinell layer degredation as time goes by. So it sort of expects the Oxygen Snesor to degrade, and voltage output to fall. It compensates for this by changing the monitoring pulse with frequency. So I guess it is important to get an O2 Sensor with the same degradation profile as the ECM is expecting. O2 Sensors also come in various types. The first ones where (a) unheated thimble types. Then came (b) heated thimble types and now (c) heated planar types. 50% of all cars have now the Planar type. Heating the O2 sensor means it gets to operating temperature faster, and stays at that temperature even if your engine is idling. The Planar ones get to that temp in about 12 seconds. Thimbles ones in about 40 seconds. The latest (s) Wide-Band Planar Oxygen sensors have a small gas pump. This allows them to send a "This much petrol" signal rather than a two level only LEAN or RICH signal. Warmest regards, Mike. |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....
hobbes, just a clarification.
When the check engine light turned on or flashed on, did you have trouble working on the brakes? I mean were the breaks and accelerator was really hard to push making you to stop??? I had the same problem - the oil pressure and battery lights flashed on while i was driving and it was too difficult to push for the brakes to the floor and I used the handbreak instead to stop the car...somebody told me it was due to overheating that's why the lights flashed. But i did not see the temp gauge moving up to the maximum... So this is also an O2 sensor failure??? thanks!!! JD |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....
Hi Jeffery,
I was reading some of your posts about your overheating engine, sorry to learn you are having some much trouble. I am afraid I am not an expert in cars and am sort of learning as I go along ..... Oxygen Sensors are more to do with emissions than overheating engines. If a sensor fails it usually fails safe. Say you cut all the wires to the sensor, the engine will still run because the ECM car computer uses a default value and keeps your car running. Your catalytic converter may suffer a bit as will your miles per gallon petrol usage, but it is usually O.K. to drive around for a few days until you can bring the car to a repair place. The fact that your battery light came on and the oil presure light I think means your engine stopped running. This means the servo assistance on the brakes also is not there. Your foot brakes will work, but they are much harder to push because there is no engine to help apply preasure. Likewise you may have found the steering also harder to turn the wheel. Again the power assistance to the steering may also have been lost. I think your temperature gauge is not lying and there is also a high temp warning light and I did not see you mentioning that coming on. So I think your engine did not overheat in this instance. Hope you can get your puppy fixed up OK. Warmest regards, Mike. On Jan 15, 6:45*pm, "Jeffrey D." > wrote: > hobbes, just a clarification. > > When the check engine light turned on or flashed on, did you have > trouble working on the brakes? I mean were the breaks and accelerator > was really hard to push making you to stop??? > > I had the same problem - the oil pressure and battery lights flashed > on while i was driving and it was too difficult to push for the brakes > to the floor and I used the handbreak instead to stop the > car...somebody told me it was due to overheating that's why the lights > flashed. But i did not see the temp gauge moving up to the maximum... > > So this is also an O2 sensor failure??? > > thanks!!! > > JD |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....
On Jan 15, 8:46*pm, hobbes > wrote:
> Hi Jeffery, > > I was reading some of your posts about your overheating engine, sorry > to learn you are having some much trouble. I am afraid I am not an > expert in cars and am sort of learning as I go along ..... > > Oxygen Sensors are more to do with emissions than overheating engines. > If a sensor fails it usually fails safe. Say you cut all the wires to > the sensor, the engine will still run because the ECM car computer > uses a default value and keeps your car running. Your catalytic > converter may suffer a bit as will your miles per gallon petrol usage, > but it is usually O.K. to drive around for a few days until you can > bring the car to a repair place. > > The fact that your battery light came on and the oil presure light I > think means your engine stopped running. This means the servo > assistance on the brakes also is not there. Your foot brakes will > work, but they are much harder to push because there is no engine to > help apply preasure. Likewise you may have found the steering also > harder to turn the wheel. Again the power assistance to the steering > may also have been lost. > > I think your temperature gauge is not lying and there is also a high > temp warning light and I did not see you mentioning that coming on. So > I think your engine did not overheat in this instance. > > Hope you can get your puppy fixed up OK. > > Warmest regards, Mike. > > On Jan 15, 6:45*pm, "Jeffrey D." > wrote: > > > > > hobbes, just a clarification. > > > When the check engine light turned on or flashed on, did you have > > trouble working on the brakes? I mean were the breaks and accelerator > > was really hard to push making you to stop??? > > > I had the same problem - the oil pressure and battery lights flashed > > on while i was driving and it was too difficult to push for the brakes > > to the floor and I used the handbreak instead to stop the > > car...somebody told me it was due to overheating that's why the lights > > flashed. But i did not see the temp gauge moving up to the maximum... > > > So this is also an O2 sensor failure??? > > > thanks!!! > > > JD- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Hi, I just filled up with Petrol and over 197.3 miles I used 6.135 Gallons of petrol. So I have about 32 MPG. This I think is what I was getting before on my average weekly usage. I had two days worth running with the Check Engine Light on, and about five days with the new Oxygen Sensor installed. I suspect that the old O2 sensor was still working, just that the heater bit was broken. Hence I was only getting bad fuel consumption when the car is cold which is not for very long. So far the car runs like it was before. I cannot tell the difference. So I gues so far the Oxygen Sensor is working O.K. Finger crossed ..... Mike. |
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Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....
On Jan 16, 2:43*pm, hobbes > wrote:
> On Jan 15, 8:46*pm, hobbes > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Jeffery, > > > I was reading some of your posts about your overheating engine, sorry > > to learn you are having some much trouble. I am afraid I am not an > > expert in cars and am sort of learning as I go along ..... > > > Oxygen Sensors are more to do with emissions than overheating engines. > > If a sensor fails it usually fails safe. Say you cut all the wires to > > the sensor, the engine will still run because the ECM car computer > > uses a default value and keeps your car running. Your catalytic > > converter may suffer a bit as will your miles per gallon petrol usage, > > but it is usually O.K. to drive around for a few days until you can > > bring the car to a repair place. > > > The fact that your battery light came on and the oil presure light I > > think means your engine stopped running. This means the servo > > assistance on the brakes also is not there. Your foot brakes will > > work, but they are much harder to push because there is no engine to > > help apply preasure. Likewise you may have found the steering also > > harder to turn the wheel. Again the power assistance to the steering > > may also have been lost. > > > I think your temperature gauge is not lying and there is also a high > > temp warning light and I did not see you mentioning that coming on. So > > I think your engine did not overheat in this instance. > > > Hope you can get your puppy fixed up OK. > > > Warmest regards, Mike. > > > On Jan 15, 6:45*pm, "Jeffrey D." > wrote: > > > > hobbes, just a clarification. > > > > When the check engine light turned on or flashed on, did you have > > > trouble working on the brakes? I mean were the breaks and accelerator > > > was really hard to push making you to stop??? > > > > I had the same problem - the oil pressure and battery lights flashed > > > on while i was driving and it was too difficult to push for the brakes > > > to the floor and I used the handbreak instead to stop the > > > car...somebody told me it was due to overheating that's why the lights > > > flashed. But i did not see the temp gauge moving up to the maximum... > > > > So this is also an O2 sensor failure??? > > > > thanks!!! > > > > JD- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Hi, > > I just filled up with Petrol and over 197.3 miles I used 6.135 Gallons > of petrol. So I have about 32 MPG. This I think is what I was getting > before on my average weekly usage. I had two days worth running with > the Check Engine Light on, and about five days with the new Oxygen > Sensor installed. I suspect that the old O2 sensor was still working, > just that the heater bit was broken. Hence I was only getting bad fuel > consumption when the car is cold which is not for very long. > > So far the car runs like it was before. I cannot tell the difference. > So I gues so far the Oxygen Sensor is working O.K. > > Finger crossed ..... Mike.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - It has been a month now .... still OK .... touch wood.... Best, Mike. |
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