BEWARE of Unintended Acceleration...

In article >, WindsorFox wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>> Throttle by wire or throttle cable sticking, same difference, turn off
>> the key.

> Does the Mustang actually have a DBW system?

Not 100% sure, but google turned up a couple articles indicating that the
throttle on 2005 up is by wire. I could probably live with a by-wire
throttle, but I need the rest tied mechanically for the feedback. I am
horrible in driving video games because they don't have the feedback
through the controls. I like being able to feel things through the pedals
and the steering wheel.

> Nissan had
> some trouble with these when they first came out, but it was
> only in the FXs and when the pedal sensor fails, it fails to
> an idle, not WOT.

I could imagine some sort of software bug or brain dead design of the
sensor but it wouldn't change what driver should do. In the carburator
era, throttles would actually stick, but it never seemed a big deal. Like
you said, keep your cool, turn off the key. Pop the hood, fix the problem
get on with the day... Of course since that 60 minutes hit piece on audi
it hasn't been the same.

Sarah Czepiel wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 01:28:19 -0500, GatorMan > wrote:
>
> :>I didn't think I would have to deal with an idiot right off the bat.
> :>You have wonderful hindsight Brent, and it is just that, HIND-SIGHT.
> :>All this occured in a matter of two minutes.
>
> You spent two minutes bouncing around because you couldn't think to
> turn the key off, but Brent is the idiot?
>
> <guffaw!>
>
>
> I was busy just trying to
> :>avoid things, you idiot.
>
> Was common sense one of them? Haven't you ever considered what you'd
> do in different driving situations?
>
> You must be a riot driving on snow.


Oh god... stop... please..... it, it hurts.... can't
breath....

ROFLMAO!!!


>
>
> As for the brakes, I got a test for you Brent.
> :>Put your vehicle in drive, rev it up to 5000 rpm's and then put on your
> :>brakes. Continue to keep your foot on the gas pedal. Let me know if it
> :>stops. Don't do this on any crowded streets. And don't stand in front of
> :>the car........
> :>Ron
>
> Heh, don't try and drag everyone else down to your level of
> stupidity.....
>
> Sell the car and get ourself a Vespa.
>

You know, I hear a Vespa can get pretty hairy if you
hold the front brake tight and nail it....

--
“I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth
Breidbart

BradandBrooks wrote:
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> In article >, GatorMan wrote:
>>
>>> We went to visit a friend this evening to check out the Christmas
>>> Lights. Upon leaving to come home around 6:30 the Mustang took off all
>>> by itself. I backed out of his driveway and as soon as I put the car in
>>> drive the engine revved up all by itself. I put not one but both feet on
>>> the brakes and could not stop it.
>> Not possible. No stock street vehicle has enough power to overcome it's
>> braking system. Personally I had _ONE_ rear drum brake stick on a '75
>> maverick and it could barely move. (oddly enough I had the throttle
>> stick one day when starting it up, I just turned it off and freed the
>> linkage, lubed it and went on with my day) In rec.autos.tech there is
>> thread on a vehicle that has a braking problem where the brakes, all
>> four are dragging and his car can't move under it's own power until the
>> brakes release. No, there is no way that you can be on the brakes and
>> the car get away from you if the brakes are in good servicable condition.
>
>
> I can't buy this either. The brakes should have held the car. Maybe there is
> a problem there too. Gotta show us the police report on this one.
>
> Brad
>

Maybe someone will post it on YouTube...

--
“I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth
Breidbart

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, WindsorFox wrote:
>> Brent P wrote:
>>
>>> Throttle by wire or throttle cable sticking, same difference, turn off
>>> the key.
>
>> Does the Mustang actually have a DBW system?
>
> Not 100% sure, but google turned up a couple articles indicating that the
> throttle on 2005 up is by wire. I could probably live with a by-wire
> throttle, but I need the rest tied mechanically for the feedback. I am
> horrible in driving video games because they don't have the feedback
> through the controls. I like being able to feel things through the pedals
> and the steering wheel.
>

Even the throttle can be weird. My Titan is pretty
normal, but there are time that it does things a cable or
solid linkage would not do. Usually not giving as much
fuel/power as what I am asking for, but then if you try to
power brake it the computer apparently knows what you are
trying to do and refuses. My Murano on the other hand was
just plain weird and very hard to get used to. Possible
because it was an older vehicle and one of the first DBW
systems and in combination with the CVT it was just a bazaar
feeling in any situation other than just pokey point to
point commuting. What used to weird out people with the car
was to hold steady at 30-35 and bump the shifter between D
and 3 and back. The speed never changed and you never felt
any difference, the RPMs would just smoothly rise and fall.
Comfortable, but odd.


--
“I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth
Breidbart

Yes, all of the V8s are drive by wire throttle controlled and, remembering
Im mostly trucks and those, mostly diesel, I believe all the V6s and 4 cys
have also transitioned to electronic throttle control.

Default position for the ETC is idle and, depending on what any failure
might be, throttle may be limited of it may simply remain at idle.There are
enough redundancies and fail safes built into the system that unintended
acceleration shouldn't be possible - though, in this life *anything* is
possible. There are three sensors in the pedal assembly and all three of
them have to be in agreement before the PCM will command throttle (two read
low volts at idle and the third is inverse reading)... I don't think that
there is an idle validation switch in the assembly but the PCM "learns"
closed position and checks that against a table to ensure that it is inside
the acceptable "window".

Of the few late model Mustangs I've driven, I have to note that the pedals
are too close together for my big old clodhoppers and I find it easy to
cover both pedals at the same time.

Also, when I was active with the fire department, I attended many accident
scenes where panic set in early and some poor slob nailed the throttle
instead of the brakes.....

Unintended acceleration possible? Perhaps.... Likely? I don't think so...

As far as trouble free is concerned.... we have seen very few concerns with
these systems - most of those on the 3 valve 5.4s and those more in the F150
than the SuperDuty. Most of these have been software issues and
reprogramming the PCM has been the cure.

Merry Xmas.

Last I knew even cars with automatics had neutral and those with a stick
shift had a clutch. I remember the Audo Problem from the early 80s and it
was attributed to the gas pedal over to the left where the brake usually is
located and people hit the gas instead of the brake. Regardless when you
think your car is out of control learn to shut it off or put it in neutral
then apply the brakes. An Engine, has a rev limiter so it will most likely
not blow up, but if it does, it is covered by warranty. cost of an engine is
far less than the damage caused by running over people, homes, and other
cars.

"WindsorFox" > wrote in message
...
> GatorMan wrote:
>> I didn't think I would have to deal with an idiot right off the bat.
>
> Sorry, Brent is *not* an idiot. He's been in this group for quite some
> time and is very knowledgeable.
>
>> You have wonderful hindsight Brent, and it is just that, HIND-SIGHT.
>
> I've been restoring and driving old raggedy cars since the early to
> mid 70's. When I was 15 I had a a 1966 427PI Thunderbird stick at WOT.
> The very first thing that crossed my mind was to run off the key. I did so
> without taking my eyes off the road. Do you know where the key is on a 66
> T-Bird?
>
>> All this occured in a matter of two minutes. I was busy just trying to
>> avoid things, you idiot.
>
> Min incident lasted less than 30 seconds since as soon as I knew it was
> stuck I turned off the key.
>
>> As for the brakes, I got a test for you Brent.
>> Put your vehicle in drive, rev it up to 5000 rpm's and then put on your
>> brakes.
>
> Possibly not immediately, but that's not what happened by your
> explanation. And I have tried this with several vehicles. I did so after
> the incident on the news a number of years ago and several entities
> publicly said they could not reproduce the incident and could not get any
> car to over power it's brakes in any situation. I believe one was Consumer
> Reports.
>
>> Continue to keep your foot on the gas pedal. Let me know if it stops.
>
> Been there done that, but just for ****s and giggles, I'm going to try
> this tomorrow with one of the most powerful and fastest full sized trucks
> currently on the market, the Nissan Titan. I let you boys know what
> happened sometime tomorrow evening. If you never hear from me again, you
> may assume it had disastrous results. Don't count on it though.
>
>> Don't do this on any crowded streets. And don't stand in front of the
>> car........
>> Ron
>
> Sorry bubb, nothing personal, but I find this a little hard to swallow.
>
> --
> “I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth Breidbart

in the Audi "unintended acceleration" from = what, 20 years agp?
For those who weren't around: a number of reports started turning up of
Audi's taking off by themselves.........all kinds of drama for about a
year - TV exposes, investigations, etc. and finally it was attributed
to nothing more than driver error due to the unusual pedal location.
Just about killed Audi in this country.

Fine (except there were a great number of the drivers who swore they
didn't have their foot on ANY pedal, and other circumstances that didn't
match the official "verdict").

I'd tend to be dubious, except I happen to see one of the damn things
take off by itself - with NO ONE behind the wheel: at a convenience
store, fellow pulls into a parking space facing the store.....leaves it
running while he runs into the store........was inside a couple minutes
when that damn thing took off in reverse at full throtle!

Would have killed anyone behind him because = as said - it was wide
open. The car flew backwards, over a curb, thru the landscaping and was
stopped by metal guardrails along the main road.......but it hit with
such force that the entire body was sprung.

Impossible - but I saw it. You could say that the guy hadn't gotton it
completely into Park - but what would explain the full throtle?

And anybuddy remember Ford's cruise controls around 66-67, that used a
beaded chain connection between the cc diaphram and the throtle linkage
- and the chains would get hung up on the linkage at full throtle!

Yeah, Mustangs have throttle by wire and I'm not thrilled with it.
Don't some German makes have brake-by-wire and even electric steering?

GatorMan wrote:

> Beware and be warned. My 2006 Mustang GT Premium Coupe w/ auto trans. We
> took delivery of this Mustang on October 27th 0f this year. A brand new
> 2006 leftover. We have not had the car two months yet. The car has only
> 1100 miles on it.
>
> We went to visit a friend this evening to check out the Christmas
> Lights. Upon leaving to come home around 6:30 the Mustang took off all
> by itself. I backed out of his driveway and as soon as I put the car in
> drive the engine revved up all by itself. I put not one but both feet on
> the brakes and could not stop it. The engine would not slow down or go
> back to idle. All I could do was steer and try to avoid hitting things.
> Well I missed the first house in my path, but went up on the lawn of the
> second home and hit a Cadillac in the driveway. I careened of the Caddy
> and made a 90 degree turn going across the street into a driveway
> hitting the garage and finally coming to a stop.
>
> When I get the car back from the body shop, I am thinking it needs a
> dead-man switch installed. The least I can do for my family's safety.
>
> Drive careful, with those Mustangs (with the drive by wire systems).
>
> Ron in Florida
>
>
>
>

Post the police report. Redacted to your desire, but let's see it.

Rob

"trainfan1" > wrote in message
et...
> GatorMan wrote:
>
>> Beware and be warned. My 2006 Mustang GT Premium Coupe w/ auto trans. We
>> took delivery of this Mustang on October 27th 0f this year. A brand new
>> 2006 leftover. We have not had the car two months yet. The car has only
>> 1100 miles on it.
>>
>> We went to visit a friend this evening to check out the Christmas Lights.
>> Upon leaving to come home around 6:30 the Mustang took off all by itself.
>> I backed out of his driveway and as soon as I put the car in drive the
>> engine revved up all by itself. I put not one but both feet on the brakes
>> and could not stop it. The engine would not slow down or go back to idle.
>> All I could do was steer and try to avoid hitting things. Well I missed
>> the first house in my path, but went up on the lawn of the second home
>> and hit a Cadillac in the driveway. I careened of the Caddy and made a 90
>> degree turn going across the street into a driveway hitting the garage
>> and finally coming to a stop.
>>
>> When I get the car back from the body shop, I am thinking it needs a
>> dead-man switch installed. The least I can do for my family's safety.
>>
>> Drive careful, with those Mustangs (with the drive by wire systems).
>>
>> Ron in Florida
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Post the police report. Redacted to your desire, but let's see it.
>
> Rob

Don't hold your breath...

Itsfrom Click wrote:
> in the Audi "unintended acceleration" from = what, 20 years agp?
> For those who weren't around: a number of reports started turning up of
> Audi's taking off by themselves.........all kinds of drama for about a
> year - TV exposes, investigations, etc. and finally it was attributed
> to nothing more than driver error due to the unusual pedal location.
> Just about killed Audi in this country.
>
> Fine (except there were a great number of the drivers who swore they
> didn't have their foot on ANY pedal, and other circumstances that didn't
> match the official "verdict").
>
> I'd tend to be dubious, except I happen to see one of the damn things
> take off by itself - with NO ONE behind the wheel: at a convenience
> store, fellow pulls into a parking space facing the store.....leaves it
> running while he runs into the store........was inside a couple minutes
> when that damn thing took off in reverse at full throtle!
>
> Would have killed anyone behind him because = as said - it was wide
> open. The car flew backwards, over a curb, thru the landscaping and was
> stopped by metal guardrails along the main road.......but it hit with
> such force that the entire body was sprung.
>
> Impossible - but I saw it. You could say that the guy hadn't gotton it
> completely into Park - but what would explain the full throtle?
>

The IAC. Even with my 5 speed Mustang if you release the
clutch just fast enough that it doesn't quite kill the
engine the IAC will over compensate and the car will lurch
then settle to an idle. There should be the same warning
label from a turkey fryer carved on the side of a car AND
70% of drivers foreheads: DO NOT LEAVE UNATTENDED WHILE IN
OPERATION! People who get out and leave a car running
whilest going into a store should be disciplined by having
their head cut off. Arab style enforcement. Especially with
a kid in the car. There is absolutely, positively NO excuse
for walking away from a running car to go do something else.

--
“I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth
Breidbart