Test Drove 2006 GT W/ Dealer installed Vortech Super Charger at Ford Dealership

"My Names Nobody" > wrote in message
news:LjA3h.1044$244.691@trnddc01...
>
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>> One week ago Sunday, My Friend & I test drove a 2006 Mustang GT
>>> automatic transmission, with a Dealer installed Vortech Super Charger
>>> w/intercooler. They claimed 480 Horsepower.
>>>
>>> I liked:
>>> Nearly imperceptible, without opening the hood, very discreet
>>> modification.
>>> The insanely fast spin up to redline. :-)))
>>> MUCH much quicker than the stock GT
>>>
>>> I didn't like:
>>> This thing hit redline and the rev-limiter so quick it was amazing.
>>> When standing on it, at full throttle, it would hit the rev-limiter
>>> before each shift???
>>> The power comes on at somewhat high RPM's, I would prefer more power at
>>> lower RPM.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even with the rev-limiter kicking in, this thing was crazy quick!
>>>
>>> I was quite impressed with the mild mannered yet huge power improvement.
>>> I was very disappointed with the (tuning issues?) that had this car
>>> hitting the rev-limiter and shutting down before every shift.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> The car is acting exactly the way is should with a centrifugal
>> supercharger installed. They will not make appreciable boost until
>> 4,500-5,000 rpm. Once they start making boost you will have a very short
>> rpm window before hitting the redline. This is why I prefer a twin screw
>> or roots blower for a mostly street driven car. With a Kenne Bell
>> supercharger you will have full boost from just off idle to redline.
>> What this means is big torque and horsepower gains all through the rpm
>> range and not just a 1,000-1,500 rpm range as with a centrifugal. Some
>> people like the power rush from a centrifugal blower but, IMO, I think
>> most would prefer a twin screw for the broad power band and smooth power
>> delivery.
>
>
> Ya-but are all 2005 and newer supercharged 4.6's with automatics going to
> spin up to the rev-limiter faster than they shift gears???

could be a mismatch, dealer does not have the technical expertise to know
that's wrong, and they are trying to unload the car.


> I could seriously consider a $26,000 GT with a $6,000 Kenne Bell Kit
> rather then getting screwed on a Shelby GT500, but this slow/non-sifting
> rev-limit hitting behavior sucks...

Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 20:20:02 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> > wrote:
>
>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>> One week ago Sunday, My Friend & I test drove a 2006 Mustang GT automatic
>>> transmission, with a Dealer installed Vortech Super Charger w/intercooler.
>>> They claimed 480 Horsepower.
>>>
>>> I liked:
>>> Nearly imperceptible, without opening the hood, very discreet modification.
>>> The insanely fast spin up to redline. :-)))
>>> MUCH much quicker than the stock GT
>>>
>>> I didn't like:
>>> This thing hit redline and the rev-limiter so quick it was amazing. When
>>> standing on it, at full throttle, it would hit the rev-limiter before each
>>> shift???
>>> The power comes on at somewhat high RPM's, I would prefer more power at
>>> lower RPM.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even with the rev-limiter kicking in, this thing was crazy quick!
>>>
>>> I was quite impressed with the mild mannered yet huge power improvement.
>>> I was very disappointed with the (tuning issues?) that had this car hitting
>>> the rev-limiter and shutting down before every shift.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>> The car is acting exactly the way is should with a centrifugal
>> supercharger installed. They will not make appreciable boost until
>> 4,500-5,000 rpm. Once they start making boost you will have a very
>> short rpm window before hitting the redline. This is why I prefer a
>> twin screw or roots blower for a mostly street driven car. With a Kenne
>> Bell supercharger you will have full boost from just off idle to
>> redline. What this means is big torque and horsepower gains all through
>> the rpm range and not just a 1,000-1,500 rpm range as with a
>> centrifugal. Some people like the power rush from a centrifugal blower
>> but, IMO, I think most would prefer a twin screw for the broad power
>> band and smooth power delivery.
>
>
> Twin screw?? Is that when you go to a dealership and have to talk to
> both the salesman AND the sales manager???

I believe the technical term for what you describe is a "double a$$
reaming followed by a wallet rape."

My Names Nobody wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>> One week ago Sunday, My Friend & I test drove a 2006 Mustang GT automatic
>>> transmission, with a Dealer installed Vortech Super Charger
>>> w/intercooler. They claimed 480 Horsepower.
>>>
>>> I liked:
>>> Nearly imperceptible, without opening the hood, very discreet
>>> modification.
>>> The insanely fast spin up to redline. :-)))
>>> MUCH much quicker than the stock GT
>>>
>>> I didn't like:
>>> This thing hit redline and the rev-limiter so quick it was amazing. When
>>> standing on it, at full throttle, it would hit the rev-limiter before
>>> each shift???
>>> The power comes on at somewhat high RPM's, I would prefer more power at
>>> lower RPM.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even with the rev-limiter kicking in, this thing was crazy quick!
>>>
>>> I was quite impressed with the mild mannered yet huge power improvement.
>>> I was very disappointed with the (tuning issues?) that had this car
>>> hitting the rev-limiter and shutting down before every shift.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>> The car is acting exactly the way is should with a centrifugal
>> supercharger installed. They will not make appreciable boost until
>> 4,500-5,000 rpm. Once they start making boost you will have a very short
>> rpm window before hitting the redline. This is why I prefer a twin screw
>> or roots blower for a mostly street driven car. With a Kenne Bell
>> supercharger you will have full boost from just off idle to redline. What
>> this means is big torque and horsepower gains all through the rpm range
>> and not just a 1,000-1,500 rpm range as with a centrifugal. Some people
>> like the power rush from a centrifugal blower but, IMO, I think most would
>> prefer a twin screw for the broad power band and smooth power delivery.
>
>
> Ya-but are all 2005 and newer supercharged 4.6's with automatics going to
> spin up to the rev-limiter faster than they shift gears???

It shouldn't be less a problem with an automatic. With a manual you
need to be a skilled, and fast, shifting driver.

> I could seriously consider a $26,000 GT with a $6,000 Kenne Bell Kit rather
> then getting screwed on a Shelby GT500, but this slow/non-sifting rev-limit
> hitting behavior sucks...

First and second gears could easily bounce off the rev limiter with a
twin screw too. It is the nature of the beast. Especially, with a
manual tranny.

> > Twin screw?? Is that when you go to a dealership and have to talk to
> > both the salesman AND the sales manager???
>
> I believe the technical term for what you describe is a "double a$$
> reaming followed by a wallet rape."

with no reach around to boot

John S. wrote:
>
> On Nov 6, 6:34 am, "DRAGNET" > wrote:
>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>
>>> What?
>>> Lie?
>>> The supercharged 4.6 spins up much faster under load than the naturally
>>> aspirated one does. That is a fact...yes but how quick is "crazy quick" in real time, 0-60 ,1/4m. how quick
>> did it feel?
>
> Not quite sure how this would compare but....
>
> Lidio at Alternative Auto has a Vortech on his 2005 GT automatic....
> instead of the Vortech intercooler he is running methonal/water
> injection.. Without the meth/water he was around 400RWHP... with the
> meth/water he was at about 475RWHP. He was running low 11's (with the
> meth/water). This is with 20 inch wheels and street tires!
>
> So... my thinking is the 480 is probably a little optimistic... but
> probably not way way off... I would think the car should be good for
> mid-11's....????

They are probably quoting numbers at the crank and not the rear wheels.
That would equate to around 400 rwhp.

> As far as the shifting and rev-limiter... yikes.. sounds like some one
> needs to get that thing tuned! Lower the shift points and/or raise the
> revlimiter... LOL! Apparently they are too close together... LOL!

IMO, it takes a skilled driver. If the driver isn't up to the task it
doesn't matter where the rev limiter is set. Also, setting it too high
is a recipe for disaster. Ifit is an auto than it should not hit the
rev limiter. In that case a good shift kit is in order to provide
faster shifting with less lag.

"Dammit Jim,I'm a car salesman,not a mechanic"

DRAGNET wrote:
>
>>> Twin screw?? Is that when you go to a dealership and have to talk to
>>> both the salesman AND the sales manager???
>> I believe the technical term for what you describe is a "double a$$
>> reaming followed by a wallet rape."
>
> with no reach around to boot

Yup, you'll get better treatment in a max security prison.

On Nov 6, 4:06 pm, "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
> > On Nov 6, 6:34 am, "DRAGNET" > wrote:
> >> My Names Nobody wrote:
>
> >>> What?
> >>> Lie?
> >>> The supercharged 4.6 spins up much faster under load than the naturally
> >>> aspirated one does. That is a fact...yes but how quick is "crazy quick" in real time, 0-60 ,1/4m. how quick
> >> did it feel?
>
> > Not quite sure how this would compare but....
>
> > Lidio at Alternative Auto has a Vortech on his 2005 GT automatic....
> > instead of the Vortech intercooler he is running methonal/water
> > injection.. Without the meth/water he was around 400RWHP... with the
> > meth/water he was at about 475RWHP. He was running low 11's (with the
> > meth/water). This is with 20 inch wheels and street tires!
>
> > So... my thinking is the 480 is probably a little optimistic... but
> > probably not way way off... I would think the car should be good for
> > mid-11's....????They are probably quoting numbers at the crank and not the rear wheels.
> That would equate to around 400 rwhp.
>
> > As far as the shifting and rev-limiter... yikes.. sounds like some one
> > needs to get that thing tuned! Lower the shift points and/or raise the
> > revlimiter... LOL! Apparently they are too close together... LOL!
>IMO, it takes a skilled driver. If the driver isn't up to the task it
> doesn't matter where the rev limiter is set. Also, setting it too high
> is a recipe for disaster. Ifit is an auto than it should not hit the
> rev limiter. In that case a good shift kit is in order to provide
> faster shifting with less lag.

Since the OP said it was an automatic I'll stick with talking about an
automatic...

Their is no such thing as a shift kit for the S197 automatics... it is
all computer controlled, including the shift pressures... So yes, it
could be that the shift is to soft and slow so the RPMs go to high
before the shift completes.... perhaps simply firming up the shift
would help... So again... sounds like the car just needs to go to
someone that knows how to tune S197 automatics...

Or again... perhaps the shift point and the rev-limit are just to close
together... again, just tune it to shift earlier...

John S. wrote:
>
> On Nov 6, 4:06 pm, "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote:
>> John S. wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 6, 6:34 am, "DRAGNET" > wrote:
>>>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>>>> What?
>>>>> Lie?
>>>>> The supercharged 4.6 spins up much faster under load than the naturally
>>>>> aspirated one does. That is a fact...yes but how quick is "crazy quick" in real time, 0-60 ,1/4m. how quick
>>>> did it feel?
>>> Not quite sure how this would compare but....
>>> Lidio at Alternative Auto has a Vortech on his 2005 GT automatic....
>>> instead of the Vortech intercooler he is running methonal/water
>>> injection.. Without the meth/water he was around 400RWHP... with the
>>> meth/water he was at about 475RWHP. He was running low 11's (with the
>>> meth/water). This is with 20 inch wheels and street tires!
>>> So... my thinking is the 480 is probably a little optimistic... but
>>> probably not way way off... I would think the car should be good for
>>> mid-11's....????They are probably quoting numbers at the crank and not the rear wheels.
>> That would equate to around 400 rwhp.
>>
>>> As far as the shifting and rev-limiter... yikes.. sounds like some one
>>> needs to get that thing tuned! Lower the shift points and/or raise the
>>> revlimiter... LOL! Apparently they are too close together... LOL!
>> IMO, it takes a skilled driver. If the driver isn't up to the task it
>> doesn't matter where the rev limiter is set. Also, setting it too high
>> is a recipe for disaster. Ifit is an auto than it should not hit the
>> rev limiter. In that case a good shift kit is in order to provide
>> faster shifting with less lag.
>
> Since the OP said it was an automatic I'll stick with talking about an
> automatic...

For some reason my pea sized brain thought he was driving a manual.

> Their is no such thing as a shift kit for the S197 automatics... it is
> all computer controlled, including the shift pressures... So yes, it
> could be that the shift is to soft and slow so the RPMs go to high
> before the shift completes.... perhaps simply firming up the shift
> would help... So again... sounds like the car just needs to go to
> someone that knows how to tune S197 automatics...
>
> Or again... perhaps the shift point and the rev-limit are just to close
> together... again, just tune it to shift earlier...
>

On Nov 6, 5:11 pm, "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote:

>For some reason my pea sized brain thought he was driving a manual.

naw... it's just Monday... LOL!