2002 Saturn No Start

I had an interesting experience today. I parked my 2002 Saturn for the day.
Went to start it in the late afternoon and it wouldn't. The engine turned
over normally and it would run for about 1 second and die. Repeated several
times with same result.

Since I was 60 miles from home and had no tools, I started to try to
diagnose the problem (no prior symptoms). I turned the ignition to ACC --
radio works fine. Ignition to ON and all dash warning lights came on as
normal. However, I noted that my fuel gauge was at empty and did not move
so I figured someone siphoned ALL my gas (I had about 1/2 tank when I parked
it). Then I noticed that my low fuel light was not on -- that didn't seem
to mesh. I also noted that my interior light didn't work but my headlights.
turn signals and hazard lights worked. Electric windows worked fine also.

I started checking fuses -- all were fine. However, I noticed that when I
opened my door (without the key in the ignition) I heard a rapid warning
chime (like my headlights were on -- they weren't, or the key was in the
ignition -- it wasn't). That seemed strange also. I tapped on the various
relays under the hood to see if there may be an intermittent sticking
situation -- no effect.

I called my son to gather my shop manual, extra gas, and some tools and
drive to meet me. In the meantime, when I went to lock the doors (via
remote), I noticed that the remote seemed to be operating slowly or
intermittently and the remote trunk release did not work (although I heard a
faint sound from the mechanism). None of this was making any sense.

In anticipation that I would not get it started, I was preparing to rent a
tow dolly to return it home. I tried to move the automatic gear selector
from PARK but it wouldn't budge. I tried to slip it out of PARK when the
car was running for that 1 second period -- no luck. The owner's manual
gave a way to bypass the interlock and that released the shifter from PARK.
At least I could now get it onto a tow dolly.

Hour and half later, my son arrives. I check the manual for some tips -- no
luck. On a whim, I decided to disconnect the battery (negative) cable and
leave it off for a few minutes. Once I reconnected the cable, I opened my
door and noticed the chimes were not on. Tried starting it and it started
right away as if nothing had happened. All dash indicators were normal. My
son followed me home without further incident.

I was obviously glad that the problem resolved but now I wonder what I am in
for in the future. Was this truly an improbable isolated incident with
little likelihood of repeat or is this a symptom of problems occurring in
Saturns elsewhere. I doubt there will be any OBDC codes since I
disconnected the battery.

I would appreciate any feedback you have on this.

ive found that as the key cylinder in the steering column ages (heavy
keychains, etc) that things can get a little out of alignment, engaging
the shifter interlock and the chimes signifying you left your keys in
when you really didnt. sometimes people will actually turn the key too
far 'off' to an accessory position and manage to pull the key out
anyway. this can also cause the problem. lock cylinders have had to be
replaced for similar problems. id try that avenue - see how your
ignition lock feels compared to new.

hope i helped.

Johnca wrote:
> I had an interesting experience today. I parked my 2002 Saturn for the day.
> Went to start it in the late afternoon and it wouldn't. The engine turned
> over normally and it would run for about 1 second and die. Repeated several
> times with same result.
>
> Since I was 60 miles from home and had no tools, I started to try to
> diagnose the problem (no prior symptoms). I turned the ignition to ACC --
> radio works fine. Ignition to ON and all dash warning lights came on as
> normal. However, I noted that my fuel gauge was at empty and did not move
> so I figured someone siphoned ALL my gas (I had about 1/2 tank when I parked
> it). Then I noticed that my low fuel light was not on -- that didn't seem
> to mesh. I also noted that my interior light didn't work but my headlights.
> turn signals and hazard lights worked. Electric windows worked fine also.
>
> I started checking fuses -- all were fine. However, I noticed that when I
> opened my door (without the key in the ignition) I heard a rapid warning
> chime (like my headlights were on -- they weren't, or the key was in the
> ignition -- it wasn't). That seemed strange also. I tapped on the various
> relays under the hood to see if there may be an intermittent sticking
> situation -- no effect.
>
> I called my son to gather my shop manual, extra gas, and some tools and
> drive to meet me. In the meantime, when I went to lock the doors (via
> remote), I noticed that the remote seemed to be operating slowly or
> intermittently and the remote trunk release did not work (although I heard a
> faint sound from the mechanism). None of this was making any sense.
>
> In anticipation that I would not get it started, I was preparing to rent a
> tow dolly to return it home. I tried to move the automatic gear selector
> from PARK but it wouldn't budge. I tried to slip it out of PARK when the
> car was running for that 1 second period -- no luck. The owner's manual
> gave a way to bypass the interlock and that released the shifter from PARK.
> At least I could now get it onto a tow dolly.
>
> Hour and half later, my son arrives. I check the manual for some tips -- no
> luck. On a whim, I decided to disconnect the battery (negative) cable and
> leave it off for a few minutes. Once I reconnected the cable, I opened my
> door and noticed the chimes were not on. Tried starting it and it started
> right away as if nothing had happened. All dash indicators were normal. My
> son followed me home without further incident.
>
> I was obviously glad that the problem resolved but now I wonder what I am in
> for in the future. Was this truly an improbable isolated incident with
> little likelihood of repeat or is this a symptom of problems occurring in
> Saturns elsewhere. I doubt there will be any OBDC codes since I
> disconnected the battery.
>
> I would appreciate any feedback you have on this.
>
>
>

Thanks. I got the car used so I don't know about the previous owner's
keychains -- mine simply has the remote on it.

However, that alone does not seem to address the disparate symptoms I had
(not just the shifter interlock and chimes).

I will keep your input in mind.

Thanks again.

"Bob Duncan" > wrote in message
...
> ive found that as the key cylinder in the steering column ages (heavy
> keychains, etc) that things can get a little out of alignment, engaging
> the shifter interlock and the chimes signifying you left your keys in when
> you really didnt. sometimes people will actually turn the key too far
> 'off' to an accessory position and manage to pull the key out anyway.
> this can also cause the problem. lock cylinders have had to be replaced
> for similar problems. id try that avenue - see how your ignition lock
> feels compared to new.
>
> hope i helped.
>
> Johnca wrote:
>> I had an interesting experience today. I parked my 2002 Saturn for the
>> day. Went to start it in the late afternoon and it wouldn't. The engine
>> turned over normally and it would run for about 1 second and die.
>> Repeated several times with same result.
>>
>> Since I was 60 miles from home and had no tools, I started to try to
>> diagnose the problem (no prior symptoms). I turned the ignition to
>> ACC -- radio works fine. Ignition to ON and all dash warning lights
>> came on as normal. However, I noted that my fuel gauge was at empty and
>> did not move so I figured someone siphoned ALL my gas (I had about 1/2
>> tank when I parked it). Then I noticed that my low fuel light was not
>> on -- that didn't seem to mesh. I also noted that my interior light
>> didn't work but my headlights. turn signals and hazard lights worked.
>> Electric windows worked fine also.
>>
>> I started checking fuses -- all were fine. However, I noticed that when
>> I opened my door (without the key in the ignition) I heard a rapid
>> warning chime (like my headlights were on -- they weren't, or the key was
>> in the ignition -- it wasn't). That seemed strange also. I tapped on
>> the various relays under the hood to see if there may be an intermittent
>> sticking situation -- no effect.
>>
>> I called my son to gather my shop manual, extra gas, and some tools and
>> drive to meet me. In the meantime, when I went to lock the doors (via
>> remote), I noticed that the remote seemed to be operating slowly or
>> intermittently and the remote trunk release did not work (although I
>> heard a faint sound from the mechanism). None of this was making any
>> sense.
>>
>> In anticipation that I would not get it started, I was preparing to rent
>> a tow dolly to return it home. I tried to move the automatic gear
>> selector from PARK but it wouldn't budge. I tried to slip it out of PARK
>> when the car was running for that 1 second period -- no luck. The
>> owner's manual gave a way to bypass the interlock and that released the
>> shifter from PARK. At least I could now get it onto a tow dolly.
>>
>> Hour and half later, my son arrives. I check the manual for some tips --
>> no luck. On a whim, I decided to disconnect the battery (negative) cable
>> and leave it off for a few minutes. Once I reconnected the cable, I
>> opened my door and noticed the chimes were not on. Tried starting it and
>> it started right away as if nothing had happened. All dash indicators
>> were normal. My son followed me home without further incident.
>>
>> I was obviously glad that the problem resolved but now I wonder what I am
>> in for in the future. Was this truly an improbable isolated incident
>> with little likelihood of repeat or is this a symptom of problems
>> occurring in Saturns elsewhere. I doubt there will be any OBDC codes
>> since I disconnected the battery.
>>
>> I would appreciate any feedback you have on this.
>>
>>

I think you are missing the point here, and it's a point that I have gone on
about at lenght in previous messages -- the grounding system for Saturn
vehicles is super sensitive!!! Anytime you have a problem/question with
voltage in the car (or lack of it), you need to recheck the various ground
connections to ensure good contact. Bad gauge readings, flickering lights,
poor(or non) starting could all be traced back to defective grounding.

I realize that this can be a bother, especially if out for the evening in
your good clothes, but careful attention to this one small detail could save
your butt .....


"Johnca" > wrote in message
news:2IWkg.9147$_m5.7362@fed1read09...
> Thanks. I got the car used so I don't know about the previous owner's
> .....

Thanks. I will recheck the grounds. Removing the negative cable appears to
have reset everything for now. However, the likelihood of recurrence
remains. Hopefully, checking the grounds will fix it.


"OceanArcher" > wrote in message
...
>I think you are missing the point here, and it's a point that I have gone
>on about at lenght in previous messages -- the grounding system for Saturn
>vehicles is super sensitive!!! Anytime you have a problem/question with
>voltage in the car (or lack of it), you need to recheck the various ground
>connections to ensure good contact. Bad gauge readings, flickering lights,
>poor(or non) starting could all be traced back to defective grounding.
>
> I realize that this can be a bother, especially if out for the evening in
> your good clothes, but careful attention to this one small detail could
> save your butt .....
>
>
> "Johnca" > wrote in message
> news:2IWkg.9147$_m5.7362@fed1read09...
>> Thanks. I got the car used so I don't know about the previous owner's
>> .....
>
>

OK, it did it again today. About noontime, same symptoms. Removed and
reconnected the ground. This time -- NO GO.

I came back home tonight and found the same symptoms. I disconnected the
negative cable and tried again and it started. The only thing in common was
the outside air temperature was hot.

Don't know if it is related, but my wife told me today that she drove the
car several days ago and noted that the key got very hot. I had never
noticed that before and that seems to tie to previous comments about the
ignition lock -- maybe there is a ground problem there.

I guess I will need to take it to the dealer and hope they have an answer.

"Johnca" > wrote in message
news:qDhlg.179294$bm6.161024@fed1read04...
> Thanks. I will recheck the grounds. Removing the negative cable appears
> to have reset everything for now. However, the likelihood of recurrence
> remains. Hopefully, checking the grounds will fix it.
>
>
> "OceanArcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I think you are missing the point here, and it's a point that I have gone
>>on about at lenght in previous messages -- the grounding system for Saturn
>>vehicles is super sensitive!!! Anytime you have a problem/question with
>>voltage in the car (or lack of it), you need to recheck the various ground
>>connections to ensure good contact. Bad gauge readings, flickering
>>lights, poor(or non) starting could all be traced back to defective
>>grounding.
>>
>> I realize that this can be a bother, especially if out for the evening in
>> your good clothes, but careful attention to this one small detail could
>> save your butt .....
>>
>>
>> "Johnca" > wrote in message
>> news:2IWkg.9147$_m5.7362@fed1read09...
>>> Thanks. I got the car used so I don't know about the previous owner's
>>> .....
>>
>>
>
>

I took the car to the dealer and they diagnosed a bad BCM (body control
module). I guess these things go bad. According to another site, the part
is somewhat expensive, but the programming with very expensive equipment is
even more costly. My total -- $580.

The mechanic noted he pulled the code P1064. My manual doesn't show that
code (they are all P0xxx).

Anyway, the car is running great. I want to get a few more weeks under my
belt before I take a long trip with it.

Thanks for all the help/comments/info.

"Bobbyp" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Johnca wrote:
>> OK, it did it again today. About noontime, same symptoms. Removed and
>> reconnected the ground. This time -- NO GO.
>>
>> I came back home tonight and found the same symptoms. I disconnected the
>> negative cable and tried again and it started. The only thing in common
>> was
>> the outside air temperature was hot.
>>
>> Don't know if it is related, but my wife told me today that she drove the
>> car several days ago and noted that the key got very hot. I had never
>> noticed that before and that seems to tie to previous comments about the
>> ignition lock -- maybe there is a ground problem there.
>>
>> I guess I will need to take it to the dealer and hope they have an
>> answer.
>>
>> "Johnca" > wrote in message
>> news:qDhlg.179294$bm6.161024@fed1read04...
>> > Thanks. I will recheck the grounds. Removing the negative cable
>> > appears
>> > to have reset everything for now. However, the likelihood of
>> > recurrence
>> > remains. Hopefully, checking the grounds will fix it.
>> >
>> >
>> > "OceanArcher" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>I think you are missing the point here, and it's a point that I have
>> >>gone
>> >>on about at lenght in previous messages -- the grounding system for
>> >>Saturn
>> >>vehicles is super sensitive!!! Anytime you have a problem/question
>> >>with
>> >>voltage in the car (or lack of it), you need to recheck the various
>> >>ground
>> >>connections to ensure good contact. Bad gauge readings, flickering
>> >>lights, poor(or non) starting could all be traced back to defective
>> >>grounding.
>> >>
>> >> I realize that this can be a bother, especially if out for the evening
>> >> in
>> >> your good clothes, but careful attention to this one small detail
>> >> could
>> >> save your butt .....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Johnca" > wrote in message
>> >> news:2IWkg.9147$_m5.7362@fed1read09...
>> >>> Thanks. I got the car used so I don't know about the previous
>> >>> owner's
>> >>> .....
>
> Sounds like a defective ignition key switch. The hot key indicates a
> poor electrical connection in the switch contacts. Loose connections
> will always get hot.
>
> I'd be careful remember all the problems Ford had with auto fires with
> their ignition switches. I'd have the dealer replace it ASAP.
>