Pinks, Gasoline, Abiotic Petroleum , and Titan

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:15:05 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
> wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:58:35 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Spike wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:50:15 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jimmy wrote:
>> SNIP
>>>>> planet. Now I would buy into the idea it might be decayed plant
>>>>> material. The size of peat bogs and coal seams make plant originated
>>>>> carbon deposits much more plausable.
>>>>>
SNIP
>>
>> A bit like the guys who claim they achieved fusion... for a
>> nanosecond... and it only cost them about a zillion dollars....
>
>That is probably the case with this guy. If he had really invented an
>efficient method to do what he claimed someone would fund it.
>Personally I think converting natural processes like ocean currents,
>thermal differences in ocean depths, geothermal, tidal action,
>photoelectric etc. is where we should be concentrating. There is enough
>energy available from these areas to supply all our needs and then some.
> I'm sure the environmentalists would scream about it though.
In one of the Scandinavian countries they have already harvested wave
action in a big way.
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:17:45 -0500, Jimmy >
wrote:

>All kidding aside, there is actually a company that can do this.
>Changine World Technologies has some kind of pantented contraption that
>uses a technology called "Thermal Depolymerization". The hype is they
>can make "anything into oil". In practice, they are trying and have
>suceeded in taking turkey guts and making it into #2 crude
>oil...basically diesel fuel. They *say* they can extract 85% of the
>energy of a stream of turkey vicera and get some small amounts of
>by-products that can also be reused/recycled. There is a Wikipedia
>article on it, but Wikipedia took a bashing today in the press because
>some guy ( Brian Chase) at a shipping company modified an entry stating
>that John Seigenthaler Sr had participated in the assasinations of JFK &
>RFK or something like that, and did it as a prank using his companys PC
>to modify the article. Somebody from of all places, wikipedia-watch.org
>traked down the IP address. Now Brian ain't got no job.
>
>With that said, here's the link frokm Wikipedia regarding thermal
>depolymerization (Note: I haven't modifed it at all!):
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization
>
Nest someone will propose tapping into the human body's power plant
ala "The Matrix"....
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg

The turkey guts converted to energy thing I can see. That actually
works. The biggest problem there is the smell/stink.

Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.

Spike wrote:

>>
>
> Nest someone will propose tapping into the human body's power plant
> ala "The Matrix"....
> --
>
> Spike
> 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
> w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
> Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
> gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
> audio-video...
> See my ride at....
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
> Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
> Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg

No way, Michael! This is America! NIMBY! Not In My Back Yard.

You can't build a natural gas fired generator in NYC without some civic
group loosing sleep over it!

Here's a discussion from a biodiesel newsgroup regarding the TDP plant.

http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=829

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers springing
> up at every land fill.
>

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:22:21 -0500, Jimmy >
wrote:

>The turkey guts converted to energy thing I can see. That actually
>works. The biggest problem there is the smell/stink.
>
>Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
>and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
>guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
>miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
>convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.

As for turkeys.... my great grandparents, who settled here in 1840
under a Spanish Land Grant, raised turkeys to feed the gold miners in
this region. My grandparents were raising turkeys during WW2 for the
national crisis then in effect. When I was young, they still had a few
dozen which they raised for income. As part of my "chores" they had
to be fed and watered until the got big enough to kill. Domestic
turkeys, unlike chickens, are not smart enough to fend for themselves.
So, even turkey gut oil isn't made for free.

And isn't "Star Wars" set in the future "in a galaxy far, far away"?
Perhaps, you judge too quickly what technology might exist. Perhaps,
there are technologies in use in galaxies today which are far older
than our own, and may have advanced far beyond our present
understanding of the natural forces.
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg

Jimmy > wrote:


> Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
> and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
> guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
> miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
> convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.
>

O, ye of little foresight...

About 25 years ago I read a SF novel that featured a "Ground to Space"
elevator. Simply a super-strong filament anchored to Terra and
extending out 22,000 miles.

Ridiculous.. impossible!

Well... GUESS WHAT!

20 years before that, I read SF about transcontinental mag-lev trains,
running through bedrock tunnels...

I think you had better do some boning up on AC Clarke... and Jules
Verne... and who it was actually drew the first plans for a helicopter.


So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.


--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:23:29 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
> wrote:

>Jimmy > wrote:
>
>
>> Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
>> and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
>> guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
>> miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
>> convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.
>>
>
>O, ye of little foresight...
>
>About 25 years ago I read a SF novel that featured a "Ground to Space"
>elevator. Simply a super-strong filament anchored to Terra and
>extending out 22,000 miles.
>
>Ridiculous.. impossible!
>
>Well... GUESS WHAT!
>
>20 years before that, I read SF about transcontinental mag-lev trains,
>running through bedrock tunnels...
>
>I think you had better do some boning up on AC Clarke... and Jules
>Verne... and who it was actually drew the first plans for a helicopter.
>
>
>So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
>you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.
Leonardo!!!!! as well as the helicopter, tank, submarine, and a number
of other ideas whose time had not yet come... sorta like the Avanti
for Studebaker... The first pony car... along with the Hawk and
Commander. Just bad timing....

And my son was blown away when he read Jules Verne writing about
atomic submarines in the 18oos, along with moon travel, undersea
harvesting and mining, airships....

Even the Greeks beat modern science to such things as computing,
vending machines, and slot machines... as well as automatronics.

Don't schools teach anything anymore?
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg

The idea of getting energy from waste, that I don't find ridiculous. An
elevator to space is easy to imagine. The energy required though would
be tremendous, however it would simply be lifting energy...no escape
velocity required.

But the idea that gravity doesn't exist throughout the universe? I find
that extremely difficult to believe! You either need a TREMENDOUS
amount of mass, or, as you said a mass in rotation. A hollywood ship
floating through space (alwasy "upright" despite there being no up or
down in space) like an earthship on the ocean is pure bunk. 2 hollywood
Like frictionless motion. Imagine an engine tranny combo with no
friction throughout the drivetrain except clutch and clutch packs in the
diff for the tires contact patch. THAT I can imagine.

Only 2 hollywood directors I can think got the gravity thing right in
space. Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Oddesey and Ron Howard's Appolo 13.

Jules Vern had tremendous insight, but lacked both an understanding of
Newtonian Physics (his super dee duper powerplant pushing the Natilus,
for example) and had no CLUE about Quantum physics.

The reason most hollywood producers convienely have gravity in space is
simple. Cost of production. Not insight into future gravitational
technology.

Backyard Mechanic wrote:
> Jimmy > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Humans as power? The authors of "The Matrix" need to go back to school
>>and take Thermodynamics 101. Don't you still have to FEED the humans? I
>>guess the humans stay fat and alive through some convineient hollywood
>>miracle. Just like gravity in Star Wars etc during space travel - a
>>convineinet gravitational pull of 32.2 feet/second sqared.
>>
>
>
> O, ye of little foresight...
>
> About 25 years ago I read a SF novel that featured a "Ground to Space"
> elevator. Simply a super-strong filament anchored to Terra and
> extending out 22,000 miles.
>
> Ridiculous.. impossible!
>
> Well... GUESS WHAT!
>
> 20 years before that, I read SF about transcontinental mag-lev trains,
> running through bedrock tunnels...
>
> I think you had better do some boning up on AC Clarke... and Jules
> Verne... and who it was actually drew the first plans for a helicopter.
>
>
> So, we're past needing rotational spin to simulate gravity in space.. and
> you're gonna bet that thing cant fly.
>
>
-

Spike wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:22:21 -0500, Jimmy >
> wrote:
> So, even turkey gut oil isn't made for free.

No, the turkey gut oil isn't made for free, but the point of the thermal
depolymerization technology is you were going to throw away the guts
anyway as waste. It could take off in Europe becasue of Bovine
spongiform encephelitis <sp?> aka Mad Cow disease where the Euros are no
longer gonna throw meat byproducts into animal feed. They can throw them
lil' infected doggies into the TDP hopper and fuel up their Mini's and
Fiats.

>
> And isn't "Star Wars" set in the future "in a galaxy far, far away"?
> Perhaps, you judge too quickly what technology might exist. Perhaps,
> there are technologies in use in galaxies today which are far older
> than our own, and may have advanced far beyond our present
> understanding of the natural forces.
> --

Actually Star ware was "A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away".
Not the future...just joking...but it was all grom George Lucas's head.
And great entertainment. But George Lucas was telling a story, not
conveying new laws of gravitational physics beyond our understanding.
Like with drag racing, you run what you brung...all I have is my limited
knowledge of physics today. Which is a hell of alot more than folks had
125 years ago. And both quantum and newtonian mechanics RELY on gravity
and the Gravitational constant G to make some really accurate
calculations for space shots/trips/travels. So I am very skeptical that
gravity doesn't exist in other galaxies and that it can be ignored!

On top of tha, I am very skeptical advanced life exists beyond the earth
at this point in time. Especially anything like us. 2 eyed veterbrae
hominoids with 2 arms and legs. Again - images like that cut hollywood
production costs. And we may not be alone - but when we find out who our
neighbors are, they may not like us nor we them!

Michael...from the website for changing world.

Looks like a slick sales brochure, so be skeptical, but they do have a
plant in Carthage Missouri. Isn't Don Manning in MO? Or was? Anyway,
probably not close. But this faq gives the output of the plant.

http://www.changingworldtech.com/inf...nter/faq.asp#7

From the other link I posted to you, you have to wade through like 41
pages of mostly back and forth but there is some interesting stuff that
the CEO met with Dubbya regarding trying to get tax credits like the
biodiesel folks get using corn and soy. And an entire discusion about
how much energy it takes simply to run the plant, efficiency etc..

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> If it was a viable alternative we would see refineries/cookers springing
> up at every land fill.
>