88 sable with AXOD

My uncle is having a problem with his 88 sable (3.0L + AXOD). He was
taking off the other day. Pulled out of his driveway and went a few
feet up the hill he lives on, and drive stopped working. He was able
to back it back in the driveway and park it (luckily, it happend just
as he was taking off). I went over there the other day and the first
thing we did was check the fluid. 3.5 quarts low. Topped it off an
still nothing. We dropped the pan off and there was no metal shavings
or anything. Revers, Drive, 2, and 1 - nothing works. If you rev it
up a little in park or neuteral and shift it into drive or reverse, you
can feel a slight surge, but if you try to accelerate while in drive or
reverse, there's nothing. The engine doesn't have to be above idle for
this to happen - all you have to do is rev it while in park or
neuteral. Before I knew the AXOD didn't have adjustable bands, I
thought maybe they needed to be tightened.
My question is - does this sound like the forward clutch piston
cracked? This seems to be a very common problem with the AXOD trannies
during that time period.
Second question - would it be worth fixing? I've found a couple sites
that say with the right rebuild kit (that addresses the problems with
these transmissions), it will last another 100K miles.
Thanks,
Wes

wrote:
> My uncle is having a problem with his 88 sable (3.0L + AXOD). He was
> taking off the other day. Pulled out of his driveway and went a few
> feet up the hill he lives on, and drive stopped working. He was able
> to back it back in the driveway and park it (luckily, it happend just
> as he was taking off). I went over there the other day and the first
> thing we did was check the fluid. 3.5 quarts low. Topped it off an
> still nothing. We dropped the pan off and there was no metal
shavings
> or anything. Revers, Drive, 2, and 1 - nothing works. If you rev it
> up a little in park or neuteral and shift it into drive or reverse,
you
> can feel a slight surge, but if you try to accelerate while in drive
or
> reverse, there's nothing. The engine doesn't have to be above idle
for
> this to happen - all you have to do is rev it while in park or
> neuteral. Before I knew the AXOD didn't have adjustable bands, I
> thought maybe they needed to be tightened.
> My question is - does this sound like the forward clutch piston
> cracked? This seems to be a very common problem with the AXOD
trannies
> during that time period.
> Second question - would it be worth fixing? I've found a couple
sites
> that say with the right rebuild kit (that addresses the problems with
> these transmissions), it will last another 100K miles.
> Thanks,
> Wes

I'm not an expert on AXOD(E)s (as you will clearly see by my reply),
but noone has answered yet so here goes...

I think that you would still have reverse if your forward clutch was
all that had failed, IOW, the clutch drum cracked or seperated causing
a loss of pressure on the forward clutch pack. If there is a clutch
dedicated to all ranges except 4th, sometimes called a direct clutch,
that could have failed, or a main shaft could have broken at a weld or
spline, only transfering an extremely small amount of torque because it
is still spinning and generating friction against the other broken
member. No steel in the pan would tend to rule this out unless it was
a super clean break. I have seen that before though.

A salvage yard replacement is typically cheaper than any other method
of repair, but I think that overhauling or replacing with a reman will
probably set you back about the same.

The 3.5 quarts low seems almost rediculous. How did the car manage to
move the day before total failure? Where did the fluid go?

Toyota MDT in MO

Comboverfish wrote:
> wrote:
> > My uncle is having a problem with his 88 sable (3.0L + AXOD). He
was
> > taking off the other day. Pulled out of his driveway and went a
few
> > feet up the hill he lives on, and drive stopped working. He was
able
> > to back it back in the driveway and park it (luckily, it happend
just
> > as he was taking off). I went over there the other day and the
first
> > thing we did was check the fluid. 3.5 quarts low. Topped it off
an
> > still nothing. We dropped the pan off and there was no metal
> shavings
> > or anything. Revers, Drive, 2, and 1 - nothing works. If you rev
it
> > up a little in park or neuteral and shift it into drive or reverse,
> you
> > can feel a slight surge, but if you try to accelerate while in
drive
> or
> > reverse, there's nothing. The engine doesn't have to be above idle
> for
> > this to happen - all you have to do is rev it while in park or
> > neuteral. Before I knew the AXOD didn't have adjustable bands, I
> > thought maybe they needed to be tightened.
> > My question is - does this sound like the forward clutch piston
> > cracked? This seems to be a very common problem with the AXOD
> trannies
> > during that time period.
> > Second question - would it be worth fixing? I've found a couple
> sites
> > that say with the right rebuild kit (that addresses the problems
with
> > these transmissions), it will last another 100K miles.
> > Thanks,
> > Wes
>
> I'm not an expert on AXOD(E)s (as you will clearly see by my reply),
> but noone has answered yet so here goes...
>
> I think that you would still have reverse if your forward clutch was
> all that had failed, IOW, the clutch drum cracked or seperated
causing
> a loss of pressure on the forward clutch pack. If there is a clutch
> dedicated to all ranges except 4th, sometimes called a direct clutch,
> that could have failed, or a main shaft could have broken at a weld
or
> spline, only transfering an extremely small amount of torque because
it
> is still spinning and generating friction against the other broken
> member. No steel in the pan would tend to rule this out unless it
was
> a super clean break. I have seen that before though.

He said he didn't hear any loud noises when it went out, just the
engine revved up. No metal pieces at all - no chunks or shavings.

> A salvage yard replacement is typically cheaper than any other method
> of repair, but I think that overhauling or replacing with a reman
will
> probably set you back about the same.

I've seen some older postings stating that with certain rebuild kits,
it can last longer than new. The key is finding a rebuild kit that
fixes the problems with the stock AXOD tranys.

> The 3.5 quarts low seems almost rediculous. How did the car manage
to
> move the day before total failure? Where did the fluid go?

He said he checked all the fluids a couple days before. There was a
small amount of trany fluid under the car, but even with it sitting
there for a day completely full, there was no more than before (small
puddle about 3" in diameter).

> Toyota MDT in MO

Could the torque converter have gone? I assume that if it was low on
tranny fluid, the torque converter could've been too dry and broke (or
would that have caused it to seize, not 'disconnect'). If that
happened, the pieces of metal would be in the torque converter, not in
the pan. Is there any way to check a torque converter? Yank it out
and make sure it doesn't smell burnt?

Right now, the plan is to drop the transmission out and go from there.
His brother has rebuilt a few transmissions, so hopefully he would know
what to look for as far as what could cause it. If not, we'll probably
hit some junk yards and see if there's any locally.
Wes