Fuel comparison charts

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
> On 6/27/2013 12:28 PM, harryagain wrote:
>> "richard" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 01:16:03 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perty inneresting.
>>>> http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fue...ison_chart.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Apropos of some recent diesel discussions, diesel fuel all by itself
>>>> should
>>>> give 13% more mpgs, just from the higher btu's per gallon alone.
>>>> And, funnily enough, diesel appears to be about 13% more expensive at
>>>> the
>>>> pump!!?? Conspiratorial coincidence?? lol
>>>>
>>>> It also becomes clear how gasahol shoves it in the motorist a little
>>>> deeper,
>>>> as well -- radically lower btu's per gallon.
>>>>
>>>> Unbeknownst to most people, regular gas has more btu's/gal than high
>>>> test --
>>>> by dint of the higher stability of the tertiary carbocation
>>>> intermediate,
>>>> in
>>>> the combustion process.... no foolin.
>>>> Texaco was successfully sued over this li'l factoid, in their false
>>>> advertising of their premium fuels. Someone at Texaco didn't pay
>>>> attention
>>>> in Organic Chem I.
>>>>
>>>> #6 fuel oil has markedly higher energy per gal:
>>>> http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/pdf/he...on%20fuels.pdf
>>>>
>>>> The thing about #6 fuel oil is that it may need little to no
>>>> fractionating
>>>> at all, radically lowering its delivered cost. Yeah, the sulfur....
>>>> But mebbe by adding another mere 500 lbs to each vehicle, they could
>>>> ****
>>>> us
>>>> for a de-sulfuization unit in each car.....
>>>>
>>>> Some other useful charts:
>>>> http://www.chestnuthillchimney.com/C...ty%20Costs.htm
>>>> http://www.energykinetics.com/saving...parisons.shtml
>>>>
>>>> Fwiw.
>>>
>>> Just to set you straight on the prices, diesel had always been 10 cents
>>> cheaper than regular gas.
>>> When fuel prices surged up to around the $2.50 mark for the first time,
>>> people put up a big fuss over it. The prices dropped back down a little.
>>> Then went right back, up and over $3.00 a gallon.
>>> But the future markets brokers didn't want to lose their cash cow so
>>> they
>>> made diesel more expensive.
>>> Why? Because truckers get a tax break on the fuel.
>>> Unfortunately, that action ultimately practically killed off the
>>> nation's
>>> MUST have trucking industry to the point where only those that can
>>> afford
>>> the fuel, are still in business.
>>>
>>> The next step, which probably won't happen for another decade or two, is
>>> to
>>> go to distilled alcohol fuel. Tests have shown that used cooking oil
>>> will
>>> run just fine in diesel engines with no conversions.
>>
>> Diesel engines are over 50% of cars in the UK.
>> Some diesel engines will run on used cooking oil but not all.
>> The new technology ones won't.
>>
>> The latest diesel engine cars over here have ceramic exhaust gas filters
>> as
>> well as catalysers.
>> They rely on a high speed run to burn the carbon out of the filters every
>> now and then.
>> If you don't do this, the filter gets f***d and a new one costs a
>> fortune.
>>
>> And fuel is getting on for $11/gallon. Our gallons are a bit bigger than
>> yours.
>>
>>
>
> I understand diesel price parity in EC is basically mandated by the
> government and the consumers are hosed by the government in extremely high
> fuel taxes. That's why the more efficient diesel engines are in such high
> usage. Normal market forces and lower taxes in the US give much less
> advantage. Diesel engines cost more and fuel costs more here.

The same over here. Diesel fuel used to be cheap but now is more than
petrol.
And the cars cost more.
The MPG is not that much different now except about town where diesels score
better.

richard wrote:
>
> The next step, which probably won't happen for another decade or two, is to
> go to distilled alcohol fuel. Tests have shown that used cooking oil will
> run just fine in diesel engines with no conversions.


There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
fuel burnt in diesel engines.

"Michael A. Terrell" > on Fri, 28 Jun 2013
07:53:38 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>richard wrote:
>>
>> The next step, which probably won't happen for another decade or two, is to
>> go to distilled alcohol fuel. Tests have shown that used cooking oil will
>> run just fine in diesel engines with no conversions.
>
> There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
>fuel burnt in diesel engines.

Biodeisel - used cooking oil, only skipping the food portion.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Michael A. Terrell" > wrote in message
m...
>
> There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
> fuel burnt in diesel engines.

The cooking oil sounds good, except that I doubt that there is enough in an
average town to power a tenth of a percent of the cars,

On 6/28/2013 1:54 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> "Michael A. Terrell" > on Fri, 28 Jun 2013
> 07:53:38 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>> richard wrote:
>>>
>>> The next step, which probably won't happen for another decade or two, is to
>>> go to distilled alcohol fuel. Tests have shown that used cooking oil will
>>> run just fine in diesel engines with no conversions.
>>
>> There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
>> fuel burnt in diesel engines.
>
> Biodeisel - used cooking oil, only skipping the food portion.
>
> --
> pyotr filipivich
> "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
>

Biodiesel, though, makes more sense than using ethanol. It is much
easier to produce not requiring fermentation or distillation and
glycerine biproduct is more useful.

In the far South where temperatures stay above freezing, used cooking
oil can be used directly. I heard Willie Nelson uses it in his tour
bus. Extra benefit is cooking smell of exhaust masks the smell of pot.

On 6/28/2013 1:05 AM, harryagain wrote:
> "Frank" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 6/27/2013 12:28 PM, harryagain wrote:
>>> "richard" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 01:16:03 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Perty inneresting.
>>>>> http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fue...ison_chart.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Apropos of some recent diesel discussions, diesel fuel all by itself
>>>>> should
>>>>> give 13% more mpgs, just from the higher btu's per gallon alone.
>>>>> And, funnily enough, diesel appears to be about 13% more expensive at
>>>>> the
>>>>> pump!!?? Conspiratorial coincidence?? lol
>>>>>
>>>>> It also becomes clear how gasahol shoves it in the motorist a little
>>>>> deeper,
>>>>> as well -- radically lower btu's per gallon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unbeknownst to most people, regular gas has more btu's/gal than high
>>>>> test --
>>>>> by dint of the higher stability of the tertiary carbocation
>>>>> intermediate,
>>>>> in
>>>>> the combustion process.... no foolin.
>>>>> Texaco was successfully sued over this li'l factoid, in their false
>>>>> advertising of their premium fuels. Someone at Texaco didn't pay
>>>>> attention
>>>>> in Organic Chem I.
>>>>>
>>>>> #6 fuel oil has markedly higher energy per gal:
>>>>> http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/pdf/he...on%20fuels.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing about #6 fuel oil is that it may need little to no
>>>>> fractionating
>>>>> at all, radically lowering its delivered cost. Yeah, the sulfur....
>>>>> But mebbe by adding another mere 500 lbs to each vehicle, they could
>>>>> ****
>>>>> us
>>>>> for a de-sulfuization unit in each car.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Some other useful charts:
>>>>> http://www.chestnuthillchimney.com/C...ty%20Costs.htm
>>>>> http://www.energykinetics.com/saving...parisons.shtml
>>>>>
>>>>> Fwiw.
>>>>
>>>> Just to set you straight on the prices, diesel had always been 10 cents
>>>> cheaper than regular gas.
>>>> When fuel prices surged up to around the $2.50 mark for the first time,
>>>> people put up a big fuss over it. The prices dropped back down a little.
>>>> Then went right back, up and over $3.00 a gallon.
>>>> But the future markets brokers didn't want to lose their cash cow so
>>>> they
>>>> made diesel more expensive.
>>>> Why? Because truckers get a tax break on the fuel.
>>>> Unfortunately, that action ultimately practically killed off the
>>>> nation's
>>>> MUST have trucking industry to the point where only those that can
>>>> afford
>>>> the fuel, are still in business.
>>>>
>>>> The next step, which probably won't happen for another decade or two, is
>>>> to
>>>> go to distilled alcohol fuel. Tests have shown that used cooking oil
>>>> will
>>>> run just fine in diesel engines with no conversions.
>>>
>>> Diesel engines are over 50% of cars in the UK.
>>> Some diesel engines will run on used cooking oil but not all.
>>> The new technology ones won't.
>>>
>>> The latest diesel engine cars over here have ceramic exhaust gas filters
>>> as
>>> well as catalysers.
>>> They rely on a high speed run to burn the carbon out of the filters every
>>> now and then.
>>> If you don't do this, the filter gets f***d and a new one costs a
>>> fortune.
>>>
>>> And fuel is getting on for $11/gallon. Our gallons are a bit bigger than
>>> yours.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I understand diesel price parity in EC is basically mandated by the
>> government and the consumers are hosed by the government in extremely high
>> fuel taxes. That's why the more efficient diesel engines are in such high
>> usage. Normal market forces and lower taxes in the US give much less
>> advantage. Diesel engines cost more and fuel costs more here.
>
> The same over here. Diesel fuel used to be cheap but now is more than
> petrol.
> And the cars cost more.
> The MPG is not that much different now except about town where diesels score
> better.
>
>

Did not know if taxed differently but could be pure market forces.
Higher prices in EC still might favor diesel. Guess it depends on how
much you drive. Retired, myself, and not driving that much, I would not
get a more expensive diesel or hybrid vehicle just to save money on fuel.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> > There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
> > fuel burnt in diesel engines.
>
> The cooking oil sounds good, except that I doubt that there is enough in an
> average town to power a tenth of a percent of the cars,


That was my point. OTOH, you could render enough fat from the
shiftless slobs to power at least one percent. ;-)

Frank > on Fri, 28 Jun 2013 14:41:16 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On 6/28/2013 1:54 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> "Michael A. Terrell" > on Fri, 28 Jun 2013
>> 07:53:38 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>
>>> richard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The next step, which probably won't happen for another decade or two, is to
>>>> go to distilled alcohol fuel. Tests have shown that used cooking oil will
>>>> run just fine in diesel engines with no conversions.
>>>
>>> There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
>>> fuel burnt in diesel engines.
>>
>> Biodeisel - used cooking oil, only skipping the food portion.
>>
>> --
>> pyotr filipivich
>> "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
>>
>
>Biodiesel, though, makes more sense than using ethanol. It is much
>easier to produce not requiring fermentation or distillation and
>glycerine biproduct is more useful.

True. "Bio-diesel" can be made form any oil or fat, even the
stuff not edible.

>In the far South where temperatures stay above freezing, used cooking
>oil can be used directly. I heard Willie Nelson uses it in his tour
>bus. Extra benefit is cooking smell of exhaust masks the smell of pot.

So, if you smell fried chicken and lots of sage - it means there's
a Willi Nelson concert nearby?


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Michael A. Terrell" > on Fri, 28 Jun 2013
17:49:02 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> "Michael A. Terrell" > wrote:
>> >
>> > There isn't enough used cooking oil to make a dent in the amount of
>> > fuel burnt in diesel engines.
>>
>> The cooking oil sounds good, except that I doubt that there is enough in an
>> average town to power a tenth of a percent of the cars,
>
> That was my point. OTOH, you could render enough fat from the
>shiftless slobs to power at least one percent. ;-)

Hmm, there's a new "energy source".

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 06/28/2013 06:26 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

>>
>> That was my point. OTOH, you could render enough fat from the
>> shiftless slobs to power at least one percent. ;-)
>
> Hmm, there's a new "energy source".
>

Soylent Green Diesel is people!



technomaNge
--
Finally, a good use for jon banqer.