chocks away

So the wife parked my 156 on the drive yesterday after an Asda run. Like a
true gentleman, I gave her a hand to carry in the shopping from the boot and
we went inside. 10 minutes later, a man knocked on the door and didn't say
anything, just pointed out into the street where my car had come to rest
against the kerb opposite! Handbrake still on - just!

I have parked that car in gear for 9 years after this happenned to me when
it was new. In fairness, I had been driving on my own, on country roads in
my fairly new alfa romeo - if you see what I mean, so I had built up a
little heat in the brakes, so they were nicely expanded when I parked on a
friends drive. It took a while for the brakes to contract enough for it to
roll off her drive, but it didn't get far that time. The trip yesterday was
30-40mph roads for 1.5 miles, so the brakes were probably used about 5 times
and probably weren't even warm, yet the car was stationary on the drive for
a few minutes while we emptied the boot - no movement, not even any creaks
when I closed the boot!

My wife is a driving instructor and has got herself out of the habbit of
parking in gear because her pupils forget to check and lurch her car forward
or back!

On 14/01/2011 10:30, GT wrote:

I thought this was about you running out of Christmas sweeties!

> So the wife parked my 156 on the drive yesterday after an Asda run. Like a
> true gentleman, I gave her a hand to carry in the shopping from the boot and
> we went inside. 10 minutes later, a man knocked on the door and didn't say
> anything, just pointed out into the street where my car had come to rest
> against the kerb opposite! Handbrake still on - just!
>
> I have parked that car in gear for 9 years after this happenned to me when
> it was new. In fairness, I had been driving on my own, on country roads in
> my fairly new alfa romeo - if you see what I mean, so I had built up a
> little heat in the brakes, so they were nicely expanded when I parked on a
> friends drive. It took a while for the brakes to contract enough for it to
> roll off her drive, but it didn't get far that time. The trip yesterday was
> 30-40mph roads for 1.5 miles, so the brakes were probably used about 5 times
> and probably weren't even warm, yet the car was stationary on the drive for
> a few minutes while we emptied the boot - no movement, not even any creaks
> when I closed the boot!
>
> My wife is a driving instructor and has got herself out of the habbit of
> parking in gear because her pupils forget to check and lurch her car forward
> or back!
>
Has she got out of the habit of putting the handbrake on properly too?

Seriously might be worth making sure that one of the rear calipers isn't
binding, making the discs hot, or just checking handbrake function.
Also, I woudn't be *that surprised if the ratchet was starting to fail.
Sometimes they get locked on the same one every time, and if they are
not applied / removed 'properly' (I'm not going to teach your wife how
to suck eggs, but I see DI's doing some really stupid things on the
road) it can make the situation worse.



--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
#www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:30:23 +0000, Catman
> wrote:

>Seriously might be worth making sure that one of the rear calipers isn't
>binding, making the discs hot,

...or..in my (Alfa) case 'hot' meant the brake disk going to blue heat
and an unbelievable amount of radiated heat felt when walking past the
offending wheel. Not as lethal as when the beemer is burning off the
soot in the particulate filter though (don't park your Alfa closer
than 12 inches to the exhaust of a hot, newish, diesel BMW - it could
remove the paint and/or melt the plastic!).

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:30:46 -0000, "GT" > wrote:

>So the wife parked my 156 on the drive yesterday
<snip>
>10 minutes later, a man knocked on the door and didn't say
>anything, just pointed out into the street where my car had come to rest
>against the kerb opposite
<snip>
>My wife is a driving instructor

Frankly, that's an utterly disgraceful chain of events!! If a small
child had been walking by as the car ran off..little wonder the bloke
said nothing. The options were, probably, say nothing or say something
and break your nose.

>and has got herself out of the habbit of
>parking in gear because her pupils forget to check and lurch her car forward
>or back!

...but she's the fecking instructor!!! Sounds like her teaching
technique needs sharpening. Is it not possible for her to check that
learners depress the clutch before turning the key let alone check the
car is in neutral?

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On 15/01/2011 13:36, Zathras wrote:

<snip>
>
> ..but she's the fecking instructor!!! Sounds like her teaching
> technique needs sharpening. Is it not possible for her to check that
> learners depress the clutch before turning the key let alone check the
> car is in neutral?
>

AIUI that's is now not recommended. Personally I always do it, and none
of my AIM people have complained.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
#www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:04:16 +0000, Catman
> wrote:

>On 15/01/2011 13:36, Zathras wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>> ..but she's the fecking instructor!!! Sounds like her teaching
>> technique needs sharpening. Is it not possible for her to check that
>> learners depress the clutch before turning the key let alone check the
>> car is in neutral?
>>
>
>AIUI that's is now not recommended. Personally I always do it, and none
>of my AIM people have complained.

IIRC, it's still the method advised by the IAM. Also, the reasoning
still stands..it takes the gearbox load off the battery and serves as
a backup safety measure in case you're still in gear.

Nevertheless, my point was that if there's a problem with learners
lurching the car while starting them, then there is a fairly old
fashioned cure available..

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On 21/01/2011 10:52, Zathras wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:04:16 +0000, Catman
> > wrote:
>
>> On 15/01/2011 13:36, Zathras wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> ..but she's the fecking instructor!!! Sounds like her teaching
>>> technique needs sharpening. Is it not possible for her to check that
>>> learners depress the clutch before turning the key let alone check the
>>> car is in neutral?
>>>
>>
>> AIUI that's is now not recommended. Personally I always do it, and none
>> of my AIM people have complained.
>
> IIRC, it's still the method advised by the IAM. Also, the reasoning
> still stands..it takes the gearbox load off the battery and serves as
> a backup safety measure in case you're still in gear.

But adds wear to the clutch release forks, and you should *check* you're
in neutral


>
> Nevertheless, my point was that if there's a problem with learners
> lurching the car while starting them, then there is a fairly old
> fashioned cure available..
>

Not much use *if* they would fail their test. Don't know if they *would*.

These sorts of dichotomies abound. Bike IAM advises that when waiting at
lights, you keep your hands on the bars, and the rear (at least brake) on.

This was also what I was told when I did Met Bikesafe, and leads to the
famed 'Hendon Shuffle'

Means you are braced in case of being taken roughly from behind, and
(with enough warning) you can move away from the site of the incipient bang.

On the down side, the bloke behind is looking at your brake light.

*And* every Met rider I've seen since I started working in town has come
up to the lights, dropped into neutral and sat back with their arms
folded....

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
#www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:00:19 +0000, Catman
> wrote:

>But adds wear to the clutch release forks,

Enough to cause a problem? Also, the clutch is a routinely wearable
part (like brakes) in the way that a starter motor (like wheels)
isn't. IYSWIM.

> and you should *check* you're in neutral

A guy like you must have experience of a buggered box where you've no
clue what gear/neutral you're in until you release the clutch! :-(

>> Nevertheless, my point was that if there's a problem with learners
>> lurching the car while starting them, then there is a fairly old
>> fashioned cure available..
>>
>
>Not much use *if* they would fail their test. Don't know if they *would*.

I've never heard of IAM practice being the cause of a driving test
fail. You get the feeling there would be some sort of a hoo ha if
there was a difference of opinion.

>These sorts of dichotomies abound. Bike IAM advises that when waiting at
>lights, you keep your hands on the bars, and the rear (at least brake) on.
>
>This was also what I was told when I did Met Bikesafe, and leads to the
>famed 'Hendon Shuffle'
>
>Means you are braced in case of being taken roughly from behind, and
>(with enough warning) you can move away from the site of the incipient bang.
>
>On the down side, the bloke behind is looking at your brake light.
>
>*And* every Met rider I've seen since I started working in town has come
>up to the lights, dropped into neutral and sat back with their arms
>folded....

Human nature is not always the same as maximum safety at all times.
I'd guess that being stationary on a bike is one of the safer
conditions a biker has to endure.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On 21/01/2011 11:20, Zathras wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:00:19 +0000, Catman
> > wrote:
>
>> But adds wear to the clutch release forks,
>
> Enough to cause a problem?

No idea. It's not *my* argument

>Also, the clutch is a routinely wearable
> part (like brakes) in the way that a starter motor (like wheels)
> isn't. IYSWIM.
>

Yah, but the release forks aren't *really* wearable IMHO. But whether
the wear is appreciable, I don't really know.

>> and you should *check* you're in neutral
>
> A guy like you must have experience of a buggered box where you've no
> clue what gear/neutral you're in until you release the clutch! :-(
>

Meh. Even the 116 which had a legendarily sloppy change [1] didn't give
*me* that problem. I can imagine it might, though.

>>> Nevertheless, my point was that if there's a problem with learners
>>> lurching the car while starting them, then there is a fairly old
>>> fashioned cure available..
>>>
>>
>> Not much use *if* they would fail their test. Don't know if they *would*.
>
> I've never heard of IAM practice being the cause of a driving test
> fail. You get the feeling there would be some sort of a hoo ha if
> there was a difference of opinion.

Wanna bet? Here's one: When joining a motorway / dual carriage way, you
should be in the outside lane of the slip road. I can see that being
'not in the left hand lane except when overtaking.

And let't not even start on 'making progress'

In honesty, the IAM spend quite a lot of time arguing amongst themselves.
>
>> These sorts of dichotomies abound. Bike IAM advises that when waiting at
>> lights, you keep your hands on the bars, and the rear (at least brake) on.
>>
>> This was also what I was told when I did Met Bikesafe, and leads to the
>> famed 'Hendon Shuffle'
>>
>> Means you are braced in case of being taken roughly from behind, and
>> (with enough warning) you can move away from the site of the incipient bang.
>>
>> On the down side, the bloke behind is looking at your brake light.
>>
>> *And* every Met rider I've seen since I started working in town has come
>> up to the lights, dropped into neutral and sat back with their arms
>> folded....
>
> Human nature is not always the same as maximum safety at all times.
> I'd guess that being stationary on a bike is one of the safer
> conditions a biker has to endure.

Not really, TBH. You become very reliant on other users, and have a
(comparatively) large period before you can do anything other than look
like a startled rabbit.

Most other times, you are in active control, which is why Hendon (and
Roadcraft) do the whole, hands on bars thing.

[1] Transaxle gearbox, long linkages made of cooked spaghetti. You get
the idea.


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
#www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman > wrote:

> > A guy like you must have experience of a buggered box where you've no
> > clue what gear/neutral you're in until you release the clutch! :-(
> >
>
> Meh. Even the 116 which had a legendarily sloppy change [1] didn't give
> *me* that problem. I can imagine it might, though.

I get that with the Ducati. The neutral light on those is very
tempramental.
--
SteveH