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Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 13th 10, 01:24 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
........
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.


Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
improves/
Ads
  #2  
Old November 14th 10, 09:55 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
FatterDumber& Happier Moe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

......... wrote:
> Dear Everyone,
> as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
> the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
> is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
> By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
> use oil. However you will also have the
> opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
> conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
> By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
> labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
> and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
> you also help for indirect labour. Since
> the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
> indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
> your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
> needed for their production), which in case
> of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
> That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
> right, first there is a by-product called
> "distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
> livestock, that is also nothing else than
> food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
> which has also an important effect on food
> prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
> which will yield in higher efficiency of
> production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
> which will change the whole equation.
> Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
> infrastructure, but also for weapons to
> defend the oil.
> By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
> which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
> for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
> efficiencies will come for production (similar to
> solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
> be produced during production in the plant.
> Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
> Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
> again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
> you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
> also increases the value of your vehicle.
>
> Yours sincerely.
>
>
> Sources:
> *http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
> improves/


If ethanol is so damn great why don't the farmers growing the corn
convert their tractors, trucks and pickups to ethanol? Until that
happens nothing is going to convince me ethanol is any cheaper or better.


  #3  
Old November 14th 10, 04:04 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Kevin Bottorff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 155
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

FatterDumber& Happier Moe > wrote in
:

> ........ wrote:
>> Dear Everyone,
>> as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
>> the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
>> is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
>> By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
>> use oil. However you will also have the
>> opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
>> conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
>> By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
>> labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
>> and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
>> you also help for indirect labour. Since
>> the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
>> indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
>> your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
>> needed for their production), which in case
>> of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
>> That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
>> right, first there is a by-product called
>> "distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
>> livestock, that is also nothing else than
>> food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
>> which has also an important effect on food
>> prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
>> which will yield in higher efficiency of
>> production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
>> which will change the whole equation.
>> Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
>> infrastructure, but also for weapons to
>> defend the oil.
>> By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
>> which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
>> for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
>> efficiencies will come for production (similar to
>> solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
>> be produced during production in the plant.
>> Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
>> Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
>> again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
>> you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
>> also increases the value of your vehicle.
>>
>> Yours sincerely.
>>
>>
>> Sources:
>> *http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
>> improves/

>
> If ethanol is so damn great why don't the farmers growing the corn
> convert their tractors, trucks and pickups to ethanol? Until that
> happens nothing is going to convince me ethanol is any cheaper or

better.
>
>
>


well first of all the trucks and tractors run on diesel not gasoline so
no converting there. (we do run a soyoil mix though) and I have used a
10% ethanol mix in my gas for at least 20 years now. Also just bought a
flex fuel pkup, because often e85 is cheeper to run. KB
  #4  
Old November 15th 10, 11:58 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
FatterDumber& Happier Moe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

Kevin Bottorff wrote:
> FatterDumber& Happier Moe > wrote in
> :
>
>> ........ wrote:
>>> Dear Everyone,
>>> as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
>>> the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
>>> is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
>>> By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
>>> use oil. However you will also have the
>>> opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
>>> conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
>>> By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
>>> labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
>>> and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
>>> you also help for indirect labour. Since
>>> the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
>>> indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
>>> your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
>>> needed for their production), which in case
>>> of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
>>> That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
>>> right, first there is a by-product called
>>> "distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
>>> livestock, that is also nothing else than
>>> food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
>>> which has also an important effect on food
>>> prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
>>> which will yield in higher efficiency of
>>> production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
>>> which will change the whole equation.
>>> Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
>>> infrastructure, but also for weapons to
>>> defend the oil.
>>> By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
>>> which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
>>> for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
>>> efficiencies will come for production (similar to
>>> solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
>>> be produced during production in the plant.
>>> Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
>>> Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
>>> again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
>>> you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
>>> also increases the value of your vehicle.
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sources:
>>> *http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
>>> improves/

>> If ethanol is so damn great why don't the farmers growing the corn
>> convert their tractors, trucks and pickups to ethanol? Until that
>> happens nothing is going to convince me ethanol is any cheaper or

> better.
>>
>>

>
> well first of all the trucks and tractors run on diesel not gasoline so
> no converting there. (we do run a soyoil mix though) and I have used a
> 10% ethanol mix in my gas for at least 20 years now. Also just bought a
> flex fuel pkup, because often e85 is cheeper to run. KB


That was my point, when is John Deer going to make an ethonol powered
tractor? I'd think the farmers would want such a thing.
  #5  
Old November 15th 10, 03:54 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
jim beam[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,204
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

On 11/15/2010 02:58 AM, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:
> Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>> FatterDumber& Happier Moe > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> ........ wrote:


<snip spam crap>

>>> If ethanol is so damn great why don't the farmers growing the corn
>>> convert their tractors, trucks and pickups to ethanol? Until that
>>> happens nothing is going to convince me ethanol is any cheaper or

>> better.
>>>
>>>

>>
>> well first of all the trucks and tractors run on diesel not gasoline
>> so no converting there. (we do run a soyoil mix though) and I have
>> used a 10% ethanol mix in my gas for at least 20 years now. Also just
>> bought a flex fuel pkup, because often e85 is cheeper to run. KB

>
> That was my point, when is John Deer going to make an ethonol powered
> tractor? I'd think the farmers would want such a thing.



basic math question:

if
E85 is 81,800 BTU/gal

and
diesel is 129,500 BTU/gal

and given that national average diesel price is $3.116,
<http://www.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp>

i. what is the break point for E85 being cheaper?
ii. by what % is the e85 buyer being rorted?

for bonus points, run the same numbers allowing for ethanol's taxpayer
subsidy costs.

for super bonus points, run the same numbers allowing for thermodynamic
efficiency.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
  #6  
Old November 15th 10, 10:13 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Kevin Bottorff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 155
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

jim beam > wrote in news:4b-
:

> On 11/15/2010 02:58 AM, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:
>> Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>>> FatterDumber& Happier Moe > wrote

in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> ........ wrote:

>
> <snip spam crap>
>
>>>> If ethanol is so damn great why don't the farmers growing the corn
>>>> convert their tractors, trucks and pickups to ethanol? Until that
>>>> happens nothing is going to convince me ethanol is any cheaper or
>>> better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> well first of all the trucks and tractors run on diesel not gasoline
>>> so no converting there. (we do run a soyoil mix though) and I have
>>> used a 10% ethanol mix in my gas for at least 20 years now. Also just
>>> bought a flex fuel pkup, because often e85 is cheeper to run. KB

>>
>> That was my point, when is John Deer going to make an ethonol powered
>> tractor? I'd think the farmers would want such a thing.

>
>
> basic math question:
>
> if
> E85 is 81,800 BTU/gal
>
> and
> diesel is 129,500 BTU/gal
>
> and given that national average diesel price is $3.116,
> <http://www.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp>
>
> i. what is the break point for E85 being cheaper?
> ii. by what % is the e85 buyer being rorted?
>
> for bonus points, run the same numbers allowing for ethanol's taxpayer
> subsidy costs.
>
> for super bonus points, run the same numbers allowing for thermodynamic
> efficiency.
>
>


First of all E85 is NOT a diesel equilivent, it is a gasoline
equilivent so you can not compare them. If you want to compare something
to diesel it will have to be a plant oil such as soyoil. which we have
been using on the farm also for several years. Take your ethanol slander
elsewhere. with ethanol it is always the price point, which is about 40
to 50 cents right now. So do your own math, I do mine, and I use it. KB
  #7  
Old November 15th 10, 10:27 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
jim beam[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,204
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

On 11/15/2010 01:13 PM, Kevin Bottorff wrote:
> jim > wrote in news:4b-
> :
>
>> On 11/15/2010 02:58 AM, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote:
>>> Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>>>> FatterDumber& Happier > wrote

> in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> ........ wrote:

>>
>> <snip spam crap>
>>
>>>>> If ethanol is so damn great why don't the farmers growing the corn
>>>>> convert their tractors, trucks and pickups to ethanol? Until that
>>>>> happens nothing is going to convince me ethanol is any cheaper or
>>>> better.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> well first of all the trucks and tractors run on diesel not gasoline
>>>> so no converting there. (we do run a soyoil mix though) and I have
>>>> used a 10% ethanol mix in my gas for at least 20 years now. Also just
>>>> bought a flex fuel pkup, because often e85 is cheeper to run. KB
>>>
>>> That was my point, when is John Deer going to make an ethonol powered
>>> tractor? I'd think the farmers would want such a thing.

>>
>>
>> basic math question:
>>
>> if
>> E85 is 81,800 BTU/gal
>>
>> and
>> diesel is 129,500 BTU/gal
>>
>> and given that national average diesel price is $3.116,
>> <http://www.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp>
>>
>> i. what is the break point for E85 being cheaper?
>> ii. by what % is the e85 buyer being rorted?
>>
>> for bonus points, run the same numbers allowing for ethanol's taxpayer
>> subsidy costs.
>>
>> for super bonus points, run the same numbers allowing for thermodynamic
>> efficiency.
>>
>>

>
> First of all E85 is NOT a diesel equilivent, it is a gasoline
> equilivent so you can not compare them.


fail.


> If you want to compare something
> to diesel it will have to be a plant oil such as soyoil. which we have
> been using on the farm also for several years. Take your ethanol slander
> elsewhere. with ethanol it is always the price point, which is about 40
> to 50 cents right now. So do your own math, I do mine, and I use it. KB


whose words are these?

"e85 is cheeper to run."

so, show your math!


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
  #8  
Old November 15th 10, 11:47 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 597
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel



jim beam wrote:

>
> whose words are these?
>
> "e85 is cheeper to run."
>
> so, show your math!
>


Math doesn't have anything to do with it. Nor does brain-dead belief in
thermodynamics.

Some engines do get better mileage with ethanol blends even though there
is less heat energy contained in ethanol blends than there is in
straight gasoline.

The main problem is the EPA refuses to use ethanol blended fuel in the
government fuel economy tests. Since 90% of the gasoline sold in the US
now contains ethanol eventually the EPA will have to succumb to reality
and start using ethanol blended gasoline in their fuel economy tests.
When that happens all new cars will be designed to get better mileage on
ethanol blends. This is because it is not hard to design engines to get
better fuel economy with ethanol blended fuel. The only reason car
manufacturers do not design their engines to perform better with ethanol
is because there is no financial incentive to do so.

-jim
  #9  
Old November 16th 10, 01:35 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
jim beam[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,204
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel

On 11/15/2010 02:47 PM, jim wrote:
>
>
> jim beam wrote:
>
>>
>> whose words are these?
>>
>> "e85 is cheeper to run."
>>
>> so, show your math!
>>

>
> Math doesn't have anything to do with it. Nor does brain-dead belief in
> thermodynamics.
>
> Some engines do get better mileage with ethanol blends even though there
> is less heat energy contained in ethanol blends than there is in
> straight gasoline.


?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????


>
> The main problem is the EPA refuses to use ethanol blended fuel in the
> government fuel economy tests. Since 90% of the gasoline sold in the US
> now contains ethanol eventually the EPA will have to succumb to reality
> and start using ethanol blended gasoline in their fuel economy tests.


if they did, then there would be hard facts right in front of voters to
say by how much they're getting ripped off with this ethanol rort.
voters punish politicians when they realize they've been ripped, so
that's why it hasn't happened.


> When that happens all new cars will be designed to get better mileage on
> ethanol blends. This is because it is not hard to design engines to get
> better fuel economy with ethanol blended fuel.


?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????


> The only reason car
> manufacturers do not design their engines to perform better with ethanol
> is because there is no financial incentive to do so.


for some people, smoking enough weed does indeed apparently change their
laws of nature.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
  #10  
Old November 16th 10, 01:43 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default Why you should convert your vehicle to flex fuel



jim beam wrote:

>
>
> if they did, then there would be hard facts right in front of voters to
> say by how much they're getting ripped off with this ethanol rort.
> voters punish politicians when they realize they've been ripped, so
> that's why it hasn't happened.


Or maybe - as usual - you don't have a clue.



>
>
> > When that happens all new cars will be designed to get better mileage on
> > ethanol blends. This is because it is not hard to design engines to get
> > better fuel economy with ethanol blended fuel.

>
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????
>
> > The only reason car
> > manufacturers do not design their engines to perform better with ethanol
> > is because there is no financial incentive to do so.

>
> for some people, smoking enough weed does indeed apparently change their
> laws of nature.


There is no violation of the laws of nature. You are just clueless.


 




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