NASTY Lil' Cobra Being Twin Screwed

"Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
news
> WindsorFox wrote:
>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>> John wrote:
>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> John wrote:
>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> I think an upscale Cougar well optioned with a 400 hp, 5.0L, N/A 32
>>>>>>> valve V-8 would sell like hotcakes priced around $35k.
>>>>>> I still say a 4 door, sporty station wagon Mustang would sell like
>>>>>> crazy!
>>>>> That's like putting mustard on ice cream.
>>>>
>>>> Yuck! Being the ice cream connoisseur that I was, pre-diabetic now in
>>>> my 50's, that was like a pan of cold water.
>>>
>>> Sometimes a slap to the face is needed.
>>>
>>>> I agree, to the purist, it would be revolting. But to the somewhat
>>>> brand loyal, practical man and somewhat experienced, or most likely
>>>> displaced, secretary with several kids and friends, football practices
>>>> and games, and the odd weekend project, I think it would do quite well.
>>>
>>> I have a feeling that the number of new buyers they get from a four door
>>> Mustang would be offset by the number of Mustang enthusiasts they would
>>> lose. IMO, some things just aren't meant to be, like a four door
>>> Mustang. Any more than two doors and it ceases to be a Mustang. Besides
>>> there are plenty of fine and capable four door sedans to choose from
>>> that are already in the showrooms.
>>
>> So you're thinking that if they came out with a second different model
>> that has four doors, some loyal Mustang owners would sell and or never
>> buy another Mustang again even with the two door still in production??
>
> Selling a Mom and Pop four door Mustang diminishes the car's mystic,
> reputation, heritage etc. It would also show Ford is so desperate to sell
> vehicles that they will jeopardize one of their best selling, most long
> term success models to do it. It would be a very bad business decision,
> IMO.

That was part of my point on the Mustang II. Ford tweaked the successful
model of the past and went with a different vision, small and efficient and
green, and you are right, it probably did save the car from extinction. Now
look at the demographics and situation. Lots of families near the peak of
their earning potential and double income families. Most with kids and 1-2
homes. And, the parents either owned or longed for or lost their virginity
in the backseat or knew someone who owned a Mustang.

I think two things may prevent Ford from doing a Mustang Stationwagon. One,
they don't have the vision I do, and, two, they fear it'll slow their truck
sales.

--
John - ThunderSnake #59
'69 Mach 1 w/ 390 4V
Wide Ratio Toploader
3.50 Traction-Lok
Acapulco Blue

I'll throw my vote in for a Tbird. I had one back in '95 and kick myself
still today for selling it.

"Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> Big Al wrote:
> >> IMO, because Ford couldn't charge the outrageous prices for an option
> >> package like they can for cars like the GT500. They are making insane
> >> profits on the GT500 and will on he new Boss etc. Making these car's
> >> components just option choices kills their exclusivity and therefore
> >> profits.
> >
> > Insane is right. They make cars few people could afford and keep the
price
> > high while the company is going down the tubes. Why not SELL the cars?
> > Selling cars is what they are supposed to do. Now they are going to quit
> > selling Crown Vic's except to fleets. Sell the people what they want.
What
> > genius decided to re-badge the 500 and call it a Taurus? That should
really
> > help.
>
> Unfortunately, Ford's problems run much deeper than what they are doing
> with the GT500/Mustang sales. They only wish the rest of their car line
> was as successful as the Mustang. IMO, Ford's biggest problem is they
> have good cars that have no identity. They have ditched their long time
> model names and in the process disconnected themselves from a large
> number of past buyers of those cars. Re-badging the 500 a Taurus is a
> step in the right direction, IMO. They need to bring out a RWD, V-8 two
> door coupe and sell it as the Thunderbird too. Maybe even make an
> upscale version of the Mustang and market as the new Cougar.

We had a '94 T-Bird with the 4.6L V-8 and it was a great car. It got
decent mileage, handled well and was all around a nice car. Then our
son plowed it into the concrete base of a light pole at 30 mph. IMO,
Ford should have never let it die and definitely shouldn't have replaced
it with a two seater. Just another screw up by the Ford marketing
department.

Scott Van Nest wrote:
> I'll throw my vote in for a Tbird. I had one back in '95 and kick myself
> still today for selling it.
>
> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Big Al wrote:
>>>> IMO, because Ford couldn't charge the outrageous prices for an option
>>>> package like they can for cars like the GT500. They are making insane
>>>> profits on the GT500 and will on he new Boss etc. Making these car's
>>>> components just option choices kills their exclusivity and therefore
>>>> profits.
>>> Insane is right. They make cars few people could afford and keep the
> price
>>> high while the company is going down the tubes. Why not SELL the cars?
>>> Selling cars is what they are supposed to do. Now they are going to quit
>>> selling Crown Vic's except to fleets. Sell the people what they want.
> What
>>> genius decided to re-badge the 500 and call it a Taurus? That should
> really
>>> help.
>> Unfortunately, Ford's problems run much deeper than what they are doing
>> with the GT500/Mustang sales. They only wish the rest of their car line
>> was as successful as the Mustang. IMO, Ford's biggest problem is they
>> have good cars that have no identity. They have ditched their long time
>> model names and in the process disconnected themselves from a large
>> number of past buyers of those cars. Re-badging the 500 a Taurus is a
>> step in the right direction, IMO. They need to bring out a RWD, V-8 two
>> door coupe and sell it as the Thunderbird too. Maybe even make an
>> upscale version of the Mustang and market as the new Cougar.
>
>

On Oct 21, 11:26 am, Michael Johnson > wrote:

> >>>> I think an upscale Cougar well optioned with a 400 hp, 5.0L, N/A 32
> >>>> valve V-8 would sell like hotcakes priced around $35k.

> >>> I still say a 4 door, sporty station wagon Mustang would sell like crazy!

> >> That's like putting mustard on ice cream.

> > I agree, to the purist, it would be revolting. But to the somewhat brand
> > loyal, practical man and somewhat experienced, or most likely displaced,
> > secretary with several kids and friends, football practices and games, and
> > the odd weekend project, I think it would do quite well.

> I have a feeling that the number of new buyers they get from a four door
> Mustang would be offset by the number of Mustang enthusiasts they would
> lose. IMO, some things just aren't meant to be, like a four door
> Mustang.

Mike,

I don't know why you would assume a 4-door Mustang or a Mustang wagon
would drive buyers of the 2-door variety away. I don't think it
would.

Or am I crazy to think buyers can easily be fooled with some different
trim and a name change -- i.e Firebird/Camaro and Cougar/Mustang,

Patrick
(Love to have a Mustang mini-wagon/some thing like the old BMW M-
coupe.)

wrote:
> On Oct 21, 11:26 am, Michael Johnson > wrote:
>
>>>>>> I think an upscale Cougar well optioned with a 400 hp, 5.0L, N/A 32
>>>>>> valve V-8 would sell like hotcakes priced around $35k.
>
>>>>> I still say a 4 door, sporty station wagon Mustang would sell like crazy!
>
>>>> That's like putting mustard on ice cream.
>
>>> I agree, to the purist, it would be revolting. But to the somewhat brand
>>> loyal, practical man and somewhat experienced, or most likely displaced,
>>> secretary with several kids and friends, football practices and games, and
>>> the odd weekend project, I think it would do quite well.
>
>> I have a feeling that the number of new buyers they get from a four door
>> Mustang would be offset by the number of Mustang enthusiasts they would
>> lose. IMO, some things just aren't meant to be, like a four door
>> Mustang.
>
> Mike,
>
> I don't know why you would assume a 4-door Mustang or a Mustang wagon
> would drive buyers of the 2-door variety away. I don't think it
> would.
>
> Or am I crazy to think buyers can easily be fooled with some different
> trim and a name change -- i.e Firebird/Camaro and Cougar/Mustang,
>
> Patrick
> (Love to have a Mustang mini-wagon/some thing like the old BMW M-
> coupe.)

I'm all for Ford putting out a performance wagon. Just don't *******ize
the Mustang to do it. It would only take away from the Mustang's
heritage, IMO.

On Oct 22, 1:33 pm, Michael Johnson > wrote:

> We had a '94 T-Bird with the 4.6L V-8 and it was a great car. It got
> decent mileage, handled well and was all around a nice car. Then our
> son plowed it into the concrete base of a light pole at 30 mph. IMO,
> Ford should have never let it die and definitely shouldn't have replaced
> it with a two seater. Just another screw up by the Ford marketing
> department.

I think the '87-'89 T-bird were much better than their 90's
versions.

I also think the 2-door model was an excellent idea but just had poor
execution. 2-seaters are supposed to be sporty and Ford's last
generation T-bird, at nearly 4,000 scale-busting pounds, didn't have a
chance. But if they could have gotten that Thunder [thighs] Bird down
to around 3,200, given it a slightly more aggressive stance/look,
installed some real thunder under the hood and given it a competitive
price, I think Ford would have found a nice sales niche.

Patrick

wrote:
> On Oct 22, 1:33 pm, Michael Johnson > wrote:
>
>> We had a '94 T-Bird with the 4.6L V-8 and it was a great car. It got
>> decent mileage, handled well and was all around a nice car. Then our
>> son plowed it into the concrete base of a light pole at 30 mph. IMO,
>> Ford should have never let it die and definitely shouldn't have replaced
>> it with a two seater. Just another screw up by the Ford marketing
>> department.
>
> I think the '87-'89 T-bird were much better than their 90's
> versions.

I can't say because I didn't drive the lat 1980s version.

> I also think the 2-door model was an excellent idea but just had poor
> execution. 2-seaters are supposed to be sporty and Ford's last
> generation T-bird, at nearly 4,000 scale-busting pounds, didn't have a
> chance. But if they could have gotten that Thunder [thighs] Bird down
> to around 3,200, given it a slightly more aggressive stance/look,
> installed some real thunder under the hood and given it a competitive
> price, I think Ford would have found a nice sales niche.

The reason I think it was a bad idea is they greatly narrowed the car's
target market. Ford took the original car from a two seater to a four
seater with great success. Had they not done that it would likely have
been discontinued. Why they thought going back to two seats would mean
more sales is beyond me.

IMO, the only thing wrong with the last generation four seat T-Bird was
its weight. Had they trimmed 300-400 pounds out of the car it would
have been a terrific performer. As I said earlier, that car had RWD,
IRS, a solid performing V-8, good styling, nice interior, relatively
good performance etc. Ford needs a car with those traits in the worst way.

Michael Johnson wrote:
> WindsorFox wrote:
>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>> John wrote:
>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> John wrote:
>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> I think an upscale Cougar well optioned with a 400 hp, 5.0L, N/A
>>>>>>> 32 valve V-8 would sell like hotcakes priced around $35k.
>>>>>> I still say a 4 door, sporty station wagon Mustang would sell like
>>>>>> crazy!
>>>>> That's like putting mustard on ice cream.
>>>>
>>>> Yuck! Being the ice cream connoisseur that I was, pre-diabetic now
>>>> in my 50's, that was like a pan of cold water.
>>>
>>> Sometimes a slap to the face is needed.
>>>
>>>> I agree, to the purist, it would be revolting. But to the somewhat
>>>> brand loyal, practical man and somewhat experienced, or most likely
>>>> displaced, secretary with several kids and friends, football
>>>> practices and games, and the odd weekend project, I think it would
>>>> do quite well.
>>>
>>> I have a feeling that the number of new buyers they get from a four
>>> door Mustang would be offset by the number of Mustang enthusiasts
>>> they would lose. IMO, some things just aren't meant to be, like a
>>> four door Mustang. Any more than two doors and it ceases to be a
>>> Mustang. Besides there are plenty of fine and capable four door
>>> sedans to choose from that are already in the showrooms.
>>
>> So you're thinking that if they came out with a second different
>> model that has four doors, some loyal Mustang owners would sell and or
>> never buy another Mustang again even with the two door still in
>> production??
>
> Selling a Mom and Pop four door Mustang diminishes the car's mystic,
> reputation, heritage etc. It would also show Ford is so desperate to
> sell vehicles that they will jeopardize one of their best selling, most
> long term success models to do it. It would be a very bad business
> decision, IMO.


Well, I'm not positive I agree with that, but they could always call
it a Falcon.

--

"So round, so firm, so fully packed, so easy on the draw" - Daffy Duck

"I get the impression that Jamie is a papusa or two short of a
combination plate." - Kent Wills

WindsorFox wrote:
> Michael Johnson wrote:
>> WindsorFox wrote:
>>> Michael Johnson wrote:
>>>> John wrote:
>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> John wrote:
>>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> I think an upscale Cougar well optioned with a 400 hp, 5.0L, N/A
>>>>>>>> 32 valve V-8 would sell like hotcakes priced around $35k.
>>>>>>> I still say a 4 door, sporty station wagon Mustang would sell
>>>>>>> like crazy!
>>>>>> That's like putting mustard on ice cream.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yuck! Being the ice cream connoisseur that I was, pre-diabetic now
>>>>> in my 50's, that was like a pan of cold water.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes a slap to the face is needed.
>>>>
>>>>> I agree, to the purist, it would be revolting. But to the somewhat
>>>>> brand loyal, practical man and somewhat experienced, or most likely
>>>>> displaced, secretary with several kids and friends, football
>>>>> practices and games, and the odd weekend project, I think it would
>>>>> do quite well.
>>>>
>>>> I have a feeling that the number of new buyers they get from a four
>>>> door Mustang would be offset by the number of Mustang enthusiasts
>>>> they would lose. IMO, some things just aren't meant to be, like a
>>>> four door Mustang. Any more than two doors and it ceases to be a
>>>> Mustang. Besides there are plenty of fine and capable four door
>>>> sedans to choose from that are already in the showrooms.
>>>
>>> So you're thinking that if they came out with a second different
>>> model that has four doors, some loyal Mustang owners would sell and
>>> or never buy another Mustang again even with the two door still in
>>> production??
>>
>> Selling a Mom and Pop four door Mustang diminishes the car's mystic,
>> reputation, heritage etc. It would also show Ford is so desperate to
>> sell vehicles that they will jeopardize one of their best selling,
>> most long term success models to do it. It would be a very bad
>> business decision, IMO.
>
>
> Well, I'm not positive I agree with that, but they could always call
> it a Falcon.

I don't care what they would call it as long as it doesn't have a
Mustang connotation in its name or even remotely resembles one.

Michael Johnson > wrote in
:

> wrote:
>> On Oct 21, 11:26 am, Michael Johnson > wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I think an upscale Cougar well optioned with a 400 hp, 5.0L, N/A
>>>>>>> 32 valve V-8 would sell like hotcakes priced around $35k.
>>
>>>>>> I still say a 4 door, sporty station wagon Mustang would sell
>>>>>> like crazy!
>>
>>>>> That's like putting mustard on ice cream.
>>
>>>> I agree, to the purist, it would be revolting. But to the somewhat
>>>> brand loyal, practical man and somewhat experienced, or most likely
>>>> displaced, secretary with several kids and friends, football
>>>> practices and games, and the odd weekend project, I think it would
>>>> do quite well.
>>
>>> I have a feeling that the number of new buyers they get from a four
>>> door Mustang would be offset by the number of Mustang enthusiasts
>>> they would lose. IMO, some things just aren't meant to be, like a
>>> four door Mustang.
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I don't know why you would assume a 4-door Mustang or a Mustang wagon
>> would drive buyers of the 2-door variety away. I don't think it
>> would.
>>
>> Or am I crazy to think buyers can easily be fooled with some
>> different trim and a name change -- i.e Firebird/Camaro and
>> Cougar/Mustang,
>>
>> Patrick
>> (Love to have a Mustang mini-wagon/some thing like the old BMW M-
>> coupe.)
>
> I'm all for Ford putting out a performance wagon. Just don't
> *******ize the Mustang to do it. It would only take away from the
> Mustang's heritage, IMO.

I think the Mustang would survive with its heritage intact. Even after
the Mustang II era, it's going as strong as ever.