Type-3 brake question

I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
(excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.

The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
27 rear.

It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
tell?

wrote:
> I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>
> The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> 27 rear.
>
> It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> tell?
>


Hmmmmmm

Might be possible.

Type 1 used 17mm (113 611 053B) rear cyls.
Type 3 used 22.2mm (311 611 067C) rear cyls.


Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

On Nov 6, 6:31*pm, Speedy Jim > wrote:
> wrote:
> > I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> > (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> > replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> > I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> > lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>
> > The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> > 27 rear.
>
> > It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> > easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> > e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> > parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> > tell?
>
> Hmmmmmm
>
> Might be possible.
>
> Type 1 used 17mm * * (113 611 053B) *rear cyls.
> Type 3 used 22.2mm * (311 611 067C) *rear cyls.
>
> Speedy Jimhttp://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Thanks Jim. I'll pop off one of the drums Sunday and take a look.

Max

When I went from the 155R15 tires to 185/65R15 to my '67 bug (already
converted with front diskbrakes), I found that the factory front to back
brake biasing was not optimal anymore.
Me too felt that the rear can take more braking power than before. I
replaced the rear 17mm brake cylinders with 22mm brake cylinders, and the
braking was very much better. No problems at all with the wider tires. Rear
wheel lockup never occurs, neither on wet slippery roads on turns. I still
felt that I needed a bit more braking power in the back, but it was much
better than before and comparable to a modern car (without abs).

If you have installed a heavy duty stabilizer bar in the front, then you can
increase the brake power in the rear, as the heavier stabilizer bar in the
front reduces oversteer / increases understeer behavior and the front wheels
lock-up easier in a turn.

Try to adjust the rear brakes a bit tighter, to improve the situation a bit.

Regards,
Bill Spiliotopoulos,
'67 Bug.

> wrote in message
...
>I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>
> The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> 27 rear.
>
> It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> tell?
>

On Nov 6, 4:21*pm, wrote:
> I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>
> The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> 27 rear.
>
> It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> tell?

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:25:37 +0100, Bob Hoover > wrote:

> On Nov 6, 4:21*pm, wrote:
>> I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
>> (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
>> replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
>> I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
>> lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>>
>> The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
>> 27 rear.
>>
>> It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
>> easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
>> e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
>> parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
>> tell?
>


You forgot the reply content Mr.Hoover.

J.


--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Thanks Bill

I've snugged them up several times, once a week since I put the new
shoes on. Actually I do that anytime I put on new shoes while they
wear into the drums.

I believe that a brake system that is balanced with four (stock) tires
that are all the same size should still be balanced with a different
size tire as long as all four are the same.

Max
On Nov 7, 9:23*am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" > wrote:
> When I went from the 155R15 tires to 185/65R15 to my '67 bug (already
> converted with front diskbrakes), I found that the factory front to back
> brake biasing was not optimal anymore.
> Me too felt that the rear can take more braking power than before. *I
> replaced the rear 17mm brake cylinders with 22mm brake cylinders, and the
> braking was very much better. No problems at all with the wider tires. Rear
> wheel lockup never occurs, neither on wet slippery roads on turns. I still
> felt that I needed a bit more braking power in the back, but it was much
> better than before and comparable to a modern car (without abs).
>
> If you have installed a heavy duty stabilizer bar in the front, then you can
> increase the brake power in the rear, as the heavier stabilizer bar in the
> front reduces oversteer / increases understeer behavior and the front wheels
> lock-up easier in a turn.
>
> Try to adjust the rear brakes a bit tighter, to improve the situation a bit.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
> '67 Bug.
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> > (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> > replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> > I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> > lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>
> > The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> > 27 rear.
>
> > It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> > easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> > e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> > parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> > tell?

In article >,
Speedy Jim > wrote:

> wrote:
> > I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> > (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> > replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> > I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> > lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
> >
> > The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> > 27 rear.
> >
> > It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> > easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> > e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> > parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> > tell?
> >
>
>
> Hmmmmmm
>
> Might be possible.
>
> Type 1 used 17mm (113 611 053B) rear cyls.
> Type 3 used 22.2mm (311 611 067C) rear cyls.
>
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Hi, Speedy;
I have a question;
I have a Ghia '1969 and I put 165 radials on the back and 135's on
the disc brake front. There have been times in the wet when they lock-up
the front wheels all too easily. What can be done?
Would bigger cylinders in the back help?
TIA.
g.
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:02:53 +0100, viet nam vet.
> wrote:

> In article >,
> Speedy Jim > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>> > I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
>> > (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
>> > replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
>> > I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
>> > lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>> >
>> > The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
>> > 27 rear.
>> >
>> > It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
>> > easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
>> > e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
>> > parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
>> > tell?
>> >
>>
>>
>> Hmmmmmm
>>
>> Might be possible.
>>
>> Type 1 used 17mm (113 611 053B) rear cyls.
>> Type 3 used 22.2mm (311 611 067C) rear cyls.
>>
>>
>> Speedy Jim
>> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/
>
> Hi, Speedy;
> I have a question;
> I have a Ghia '1969 and I put 165 radials on the back and 135's on
> the disc brake front. There have been times in the wet when they lock-up
> the front wheels all too easily. What can be done?

Use same dimensions as the rears upfront too.

J.

> Would bigger cylinders in the back help?
> TIA.
> g.



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Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

The factory brake system is balanced for a very soft (or not at all)
stabilizer bar in the front, for use with bias ply tires, and with the
factory ride height which results in a soft suspension with a rear that gets
positive cambered under heavy braking (swingaxles). It is balanced so that
the rear wheels will never lock before the front wheels under heavy braking.
"Improving" suspension and using modern tires of different aspect ratios
than the stock tires, changes dramaticaly the dynamics of braking, and
usually the rear wheels can take more braking power before they lock-up than
in the stock configuration. However this has more to do with fine tuning
your brake system to maximum performance.

You definitely have to check if the rear cylinders were replaced with the
appropriate ones, because if they are replaced with the smaller 17mm you
won't lose only braking power in the back, but also in the front, as the
front will lock-up easier as it will have to work more for the missing rear
braking.

Regards,
Bill Spiliotopoulos,
'67 Bug.

? > ?????? ??? ??????
...
Thanks Bill

I've snugged them up several times, once a week since I put the new
shoes on. Actually I do that anytime I put on new shoes while they
wear into the drums.

I believe that a brake system that is balanced with four (stock) tires
that are all the same size should still be balanced with a different
size tire as long as all four are the same.

Max
On Nov 7, 9:23 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" > wrote:
> When I went from the 155R15 tires to 185/65R15 to my '67 bug (already
> converted with front diskbrakes), I found that the factory front to back
> brake biasing was not optimal anymore.
> Me too felt that the rear can take more braking power than before. I
> replaced the rear 17mm brake cylinders with 22mm brake cylinders, and the
> braking was very much better. No problems at all with the wider tires.
> Rear
> wheel lockup never occurs, neither on wet slippery roads on turns. I still
> felt that I needed a bit more braking power in the back, but it was much
> better than before and comparable to a modern car (without abs).
>
> If you have installed a heavy duty stabilizer bar in the front, then you
> can
> increase the brake power in the rear, as the heavier stabilizer bar in the
> front reduces oversteer / increases understeer behavior and the front
> wheels
> lock-up easier in a turn.
>
> Try to adjust the rear brakes a bit tighter, to improve the situation a
> bit.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
> '67 Bug.
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I have a 1968 type-3 squareback. I recently put on a set of Blizzacks
> > (excellent snow tires sold by Bridgestone) for this winter. I have
> > replaced many suspension parts and had a good 4-wheel alignment done.
> > I also replaced many brake system components, including the flex
> > lines, front pads and the rear cylinders and shoes.
>
> > The tires are 195x65x15s. Inflation is currently at 20 psi front and
> > 27 rear.
>
> > It seems to have more braking power in the front than the back. I can
> > easily get a much shorter stop by pulling in some extra force with the
> > e-brake lever during a hard stop. I am starting to wonder if the local
> > parts place may have sold me some type-1 rear cylinders... How can I
> > tell?