alternator wierdness

so i replaced my 89 civic's alternator this weekend [nearly 160k miles]
and thought it would be good to pass a few things onto the group.

1. you /do/ need to remove the driveshaft! don't waste time messing
about. if you go straight there, it's quicker and simpler than messing
about "trying to find a way". because there isn't one.

2. mitsubishi alternators are unmaintainable. just toss it and get a
nippon denso. i got two good ones [newly refurbished] from my local
junk yard for $15 each plus $5 core. mitsubishi internal componentry is
much inferior - bearings, brushes, slip rings, rectifiers. better than
bosch [maybe] and lasted ok, but just not in the came construction
quality league as denso.

but here's the real kicker:

3. had noticed the usual pre-failure symptoms - dim lights, slow to kick
in after starting, etc., hence replacement before complete failure. but
it also completely cured another seemingly unrelated problem. when
started, and allowed to roll, my car would speed up and slow down
repeatedly from idle, just like the symptoms of low coolant affecting
the tw sensor. i'd spend a couple of months idly speculating about this
and had bled the coolant system a couple of times to no avail. but with
the new alternator, this problem disappeared immediately. now i figure
that the electronic load detector [eld] was detecting low current and
boosting revs to kick up output from a weak alternator. now, with a
good alternator with new brushes, electrical output is strong from idle,
so no need for the eld to raise revs, hence problem solved.

ymmv.

jim beam > wrote in
t:

> now i figure
> that the electronic load detector [eld] was detecting low current and
> boosting revs to kick up output from a weak alternator.


Are you sure you have an ELD? I thought those only came in with the '92-'95
Civics.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam > wrote in
> t:
>
>> now i figure
>> that the electronic load detector [eld] was detecting low current and
>> boosting revs to kick up output from a weak alternator.
>
>
> Are you sure you have an ELD? I thought those only came in with the '92-'95
> Civics.
>
>
yup, page 23-76 of the 89 civic shop manual.

jim beam > wrote in
news
> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam > wrote in
>> t:
>>
>>> now i figure
>>> that the electronic load detector [eld] was detecting low current
>>> and boosting revs to kick up output from a weak alternator.
>>
>>
>> Are you sure you have an ELD? I thought those only came in with the
>> '92-'95 Civics.
>>
>>
> yup, page 23-76 of the 89 civic shop manual.
>


Very interesting. The Integra of those same years didn't have one.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam wrote:
> 1. you /do/ need to remove the driveshaft! don't waste time messing
> about. if you go straight there, it's quicker and simpler than messing
> about "trying to find a way". because there isn't one.

Havent had to remove the shaft on either of my 89's. Separating the
lower ball joint will give you enough room to remove the alternator.

> 2. mitsubishi alternators are unmaintainable. just toss it and get a
> nippon denso.

Had both and really didnt see any difference in build quality.

> but here's the real kicker:
>
> 3. had noticed the usual pre-failure symptoms - dim lights, slow to kick
> in after starting, etc., hence replacement before complete failure. but
> it also completely cured another seemingly unrelated problem. when
> started, and allowed to roll, my car would speed up and slow down
> repeatedly from idle, just like the symptoms of low coolant affecting
> the tw sensor. i'd spend a couple of months idly speculating about this
> and had bled the coolant system a couple of times to no avail. but with
> the new alternator, this problem disappeared immediately. now i figure
> that the electronic load detector [eld] was detecting low current and
> boosting revs to kick up output from a weak alternator. now, with a
> good alternator with new brushes, electrical output is strong from idle,
> so no need for the eld to raise revs, hence problem solved.

But THIS little item is interesting. I'll have to add an alternator
output test when I had a wacky idle problem just to see if this happens
often.

Thanks for posting.

-SP

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam > wrote in
> news >
>> Tegger wrote:
>>> jim beam > wrote in
>>> t:
>>>
>>>> now i figure
>>>> that the electronic load detector [eld] was detecting low current
>>>> and boosting revs to kick up output from a weak alternator.
>>>
>>> Are you sure you have an ELD? I thought those only came in with the
>>> '92-'95 Civics.
>>>
>>>
>> yup, page 23-76 of the 89 civic shop manual.
>>
>
>
> Very interesting. The Integra of those same years didn't have one.
>
>
i'm surprised - i'd have thought that since all the control equipment is
in place with fuel injection, it would be a no-brainer. oh well.

Speedy Pete wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> 1. you /do/ need to remove the driveshaft! don't waste time messing
>> about. if you go straight there, it's quicker and simpler than
>> messing about "trying to find a way". because there isn't one.
>
> Havent had to remove the shaft on either of my 89's. Separating the
> lower ball joint will give you enough room to remove the alternator.

ok, let's put this another way - there's no exit path that doesn't
involve "contact" [read: "forcing"] without driveshaft removal. as you
say, you pop the lower joint, but from there it's a 1 minute job to
nudge the driveshaft end out and put it in a baggie to keep it clean.

"contact" is undesirable since it can damage the alternator, scratch the
driveshaft [which can initiate fatigue] and worse, damage the driveshaft
boot.

all that risk and no time saving? what a pointless exercise!

>
>> 2. mitsubishi alternators are unmaintainable. just toss it and get a
>> nippon denso.
>
> Had both and really didnt see any difference in build quality.

take them apart and lay the parts out together. in the nd, the
rectifiers are superior, the brushes replaceable and the bearings better.

>
>> but here's the real kicker:
>>
>> 3. had noticed the usual pre-failure symptoms - dim lights, slow to
>> kick in after starting, etc., hence replacement before complete
>> failure. but it also completely cured another seemingly unrelated
>> problem. when started, and allowed to roll, my car would speed up and
>> slow down repeatedly from idle, just like the symptoms of low coolant
>> affecting the tw sensor. i'd spend a couple of months idly
>> speculating about this and had bled the coolant system a couple of
>> times to no avail. but with the new alternator, this problem
>> disappeared immediately. now i figure that the electronic load
>> detector [eld] was detecting low current and boosting revs to kick up
>> output from a weak alternator. now, with a good alternator with new
>> brushes, electrical output is strong from idle, so no need for the eld
>> to raise revs, hence problem solved.
>
> But THIS little item is interesting. I'll have to add an alternator
> output test when I had a wacky idle problem just to see if this happens
> often.
>
> Thanks for posting.
>
> -SP