1987 Audi 5000 Timing Belt

I think it finally happened:

While driving, the engine suddenly stopped without any warning
whatsoever!

And the engine did not restart, slow turnover,
sounded like a battery getting weak.

The camshaft does not turn anymore.

So, it looks like a broken timing belt.

Question I have:

On this 5 cylinder engine, what is the likelyhood of any collateral
damage to the engine, valvetrain etc?

Any thoughts?

Marti,
Chances are at least one piston has dinged a valve - it depends somewhat on
the code of your engine to say whether it was designed as an interference
(valves and pistons occupy same cylinder space at different times - 10 valve
turbo engines) or non-interference (most 10 valve non-turbo engines) -
HOWEVER, just because it was designed as "non-interference" doesn't mean
that the piston won't hit a valve if there is some slack in the piston wrist
pin and con rod bearings.
Have a shop do a leakdown test to confirm valve integrity
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:13:34 -0400, "Steve Sears"
> wrote:

>Marti,
>Chances are at least one piston has dinged a valve - it depends somewhat on
>the code of your engine to say whether it was designed as an interference
>(valves and pistons occupy same cylinder space at different times - 10 valve
>turbo engines) or non-interference (most 10 valve non-turbo engines) -
>HOWEVER, just because it was designed as "non-interference" doesn't mean
>that the piston won't hit a valve if there is some slack in the piston wrist
>pin and con rod bearings.
>Have a shop do a leakdown test to confirm valve integrity
>Cheers!
>Steve Sears
>1987 Audi 5kTQ
>1980 Audi 5k
>1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
>(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
>

Thanks Steve,

It is a non-turbo 2.3 liter engine.

I didn't hear any metallic
noises, it was a silent death in the middle of traffic.

Now I just have to take that stuff apart.

>From: Marti
>
>I think it finally happened:
>
>While driving, the engine suddenly stopped without any warning
>whatsoever!
>
>And the engine did not restart, slow turnover,
>sounded like a battery getting weak.
>
>The camshaft does not turn anymore.
>
>So, it looks like a broken timing belt.
>
>Question I have:
>
>On this 5 cylinder engine, what is the likelyhood of any collateral
>damage to the engine, valvetrain etc?
>
>Any thoughts?
>

you should be fine!
change the belt and keep driving it! ;-)

later,
dave
Reminder........
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way,
when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their
shoes. Frieda Norris

On 30 Sep 2004 03:10:45 GMT, NTISPAM (dave) wrote:

>>From: Marti
>>
>>I think it finally happened:
>>
>>While driving, the engine suddenly stopped without any warning
>>whatsoever!
>>
>>And the engine did not restart, slow turnover,
>>sounded like a battery getting weak.
>>
>>The camshaft does not turn anymore.
>>
>>So, it looks like a broken timing belt.
>>
>>Question I have:
>>
>>On this 5 cylinder engine, what is the likelyhood of any collateral
>>damage to the engine, valvetrain etc?
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>
>you should be fine!
>change the belt and keep driving it! ;-)
>
>later,
>dave
>Reminder........
>Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way,
>when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their
>shoes. Frieda Norris

I am speculating there may not be any valve damage.

Looking at my old Bentley Official Factory Repair manual,
there doesn't seem to any specific instructions as to
"how-to-do the timing belt replacement on this old
1987 Audi 5000. (BTW, still drives like a new car)

Any thought on finding some instructions on the internet,
and/or a better manual?

>From: Marti
>
>
>I am speculating there may not be any valve damage.
>
>Looking at my old Bentley Official Factory Repair manual,
>there doesn't seem to any specific instructions as to
>"how-to-do the timing belt replacement on this old
>1987 Audi 5000. (BTW, still drives like a new car)
>
>Any thought on finding some instructions on the internet,
>and/or a better manual?
>

hmmm
there should be good instructions in the engine section of your Bentley.

I believe the hardest part for most is getting the Crank Sprocket/Pulley off
and back on correctly. If it is installed loosely then it will damage the
sprocket and the crank in time.

You can use a tool to lock the driveplate/flywheel from turning and then use a
breaker bar to deal with the Crank bolt. I have used a brake tool that looks
like a bent screwdriver.

There should be just two points to align for the timing, Cam and Crank. I
check the '0' position of the crank by removing the #1 spark plug. I think the
Cam sprocket has a mark on it that aligns with the left side of the valve cover
surface of the cylinder head.
Waterpump adjusts the tension. Most places will change this too, but it is up
to you. The waterpump or gasket may leak if it is disturbed though! There are
1 or 2 ways to install the belt without disturbing the waterpump.

Replacing the idler bearing (or whatever it is called) is a good idea too. It
is your call as to how elaborate you get with this job.
And I am not sure you wish to change the front crank seal or camshaft seal too.

just a quick search on google found me this:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/
http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/tbwp.htm

Now have fun!!!

later,
dave
Reminder........
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way,
when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their
shoes. Frieda Norris

On 01 Oct 2004 02:18:55 GMT, NTISPAM (dave) wrote:

>>From: Marti
>>
>>
>>I am speculating there may not be any valve damage.
>>
>>Looking at my old Bentley Official Factory Repair manual,
>>there doesn't seem to any specific instructions as to
>>"how-to-do the timing belt replacement on this old
>>1987 Audi 5000. (BTW, still drives like a new car)
>>
>>Any thought on finding some instructions on the internet,
>>and/or a better manual?
>>
>
>hmmm
>there should be good instructions in the engine section of your Bentley.
>
>I believe the hardest part for most is getting the Crank Sprocket/Pulley off
>and back on correctly. If it is installed loosely then it will damage the
>sprocket and the crank in time.
>
>You can use a tool to lock the driveplate/flywheel from turning and then use a
>breaker bar to deal with the Crank bolt. I have used a brake tool that looks
>like a bent screwdriver.
>
>There should be just two points to align for the timing, Cam and Crank. I
>check the '0' position of the crank by removing the #1 spark plug. I think the
>Cam sprocket has a mark on it that aligns with the left side of the valve cover
>surface of the cylinder head.

To get the cam sprocket off, I've found that putting a large
screwdriver through one of the sprocket slots and then through the
engine lifting eye will hold it enough to unbolt it.

"dave" > wrote
...
>
> You can use a tool to lock the driveplate/flywheel from turning and then
use a
> breaker bar to deal with the Crank bolt. I have used a brake tool that
looks
> like a bent screwdriver.
>

You can also lock it by putting a large screwdriver in a hole at the edge of
the driveplate/flywheel. There is somewhere a hole at the bottom side in the
gearbox housing where you can put the scewdriver through. Worked fine for
me.

Al

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:15:34 GMT, Marti > wrote:

>I think it finally happened:
>
>While driving, the engine suddenly stopped without any warning
>whatsoever!
>
>And the engine did not restart, slow turnover,
>sounded like a battery getting weak.
>
>The camshaft does not turn anymore.
>
>So, it looks like a broken timing belt.
>
>Question I have:
>
>On this 5 cylinder engine, what is the likelyhood of any collateral
>damage to the engine, valvetrain etc?
>
>Any thoughts?
>

,

Thank You all
for the nice tips!

Fortunately, I have enough time
and will start the disassemble.

I guess the big moment comes,
when you start the engine after
the work...

One more Question:

I have a few sockets for the the big 3/4 extension, but none fits
the big crankshaft pulley bolt.

So I need to get out and buy 3/4 socket for that bolt.

Anybody recall what the size is?
(it is for the l987 5000 5 cylinder engine)

marti-