1995 Audi 90 2.8l engine temperature low

I'm as sure as I can be that I installed that too. The only thing I can
figure is that it's in backwards, but that seems unlikely three
times....unless what-ever indication I used for direction gives me the wrong
way.

"Tony" > wrote in message
...
> You should also check to see if the Tstat is supposed to have one of those
'O'
> ring seals that snap on its edge. If it is, and it isn't there, you would
get a
> lot of flow around the sides.
>
> Tony
>
> Gene Buckwalter wrote:
>
> > The heating system seems to function as well as it can with the
engine
> > coolant temp being low....if that's really the case.
> >
> > Last night I put a therocouple on the temp sensor in the pipe that
comes
> > out of he rear of the passenger side head. That seemed to read about
> > 70C when the dash needle was where it normally rests. Then I moved the
> > thermocouple to the radiator, right where the heated water enters it.
That
> > read about 85C or so a few minutes later, when the temp had risen above
its
> > normal operating temp.
> >
> > Anyway, as you mentioned, I also beleive the only way for the temp
to be
> > low is either a bad run of thermostats or something wrong with
> > the way it's installed. Somehow, heated coolant is getting to the
radiator
> > to lose its heat.
> >
> > Is it possible that the coolant configuration on this engine is
> > different from what the orientation instructions say that come with the
> > thermostat? The thermostat in backwards may cause this sort of problem.
> >
> > I soon need to fix an oil leak on the front of the engine so I'll be
> > removing the timing belt and such anyway. I plan to take a
> > very carefull look at the coolant direction and the orientation of the
> > t-stat and replace it for good measure.
> >
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > "Steve Sears" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >
> >>Gene,
> >>I'd get a thermometer and check the temp of the fluid running into the
> >
> > rad.
> >
> >>With a 97c thermostat, the fluid should circulate in the block only for
a
> >>longer period, and the regular oil temp should raise as well. The
coolant
> >>temperature gauge is on the outside of the t-stat, so it is more a gauge
> >
> > of
> >
> >>the temperature of the fluid in the rad than the engine, and if the
t-stat
> >>is holding the temp in, then you'd expect the oil temp to go way up.
I've
> >>heard of new t-stats malfunctioning - I checked the last one I put in
the
> >>5ktq on the stove before I put it in - had to use cooking oil as the
water
> >>was boiling below the opening point (not that I live on a significant
> >>mountain, or anything). Tony is about right - there has to be heated
> >>coolant bypassing the thermostat.
> >>On the heater issue, have you checked that the cabin heating system is
> >>operating correctly? My '87 5ktq had only unheated air out the vents
all
> >>summer - turns out that the servo motor ist kaput and wouldn't pull the
> >>bowden cable that changes the air supply from outside to from the heater
> >>core. I found the servo pack behind the glovebox and manually rotated
the
> >>servo link to heat - now all I'll have to do is change it back in the
> >
> > spring
> >
> >>(take THAT, "climate control system"!) There's a discussion about CC
> >>problems on Audifans today - if your system has the "fault codes", on
the
> >>Type 44 system channel 8 and 9 should be within 3 units of each other if
> >
> > the
> >
> >>servo is working well.
> >>Cheers!
> >>Steve Sears
> >>1987 Audi 5kTQ
> >>1980 Audi 5k
> >>1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> >>(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
> >>
> >>"Gene Buckwalter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>> Ok, before you all say that I need a new thermostat, I've been
> >
> > there.
> >
> >>>:-)
> >>>
> >>> The engine temperature guage seems to regulate to the first, thin
> >>
> >>white
> >>
> >>>line at about 1/4 on the guage. There is a thick white line
> >>>just below half way up the guage where I would expect the needle to
> >>
> >>settle.
> >>
> >>>The needle only gets there on warm days in the summer
> >>>or if I let the car idle stopped for some long period of time.
Somewhat
> >>>farther up the guage(just above half guage) the fans turn on,
> >>>as I would expect also. The heater blows very slightly warm air if the
> >>>outside temp is below, say, 45 degrees.... unless I let the car
> >>>sit idling long enough to get the gauge up to or past the thick white
> >
> > line
> >
> >>I
> >>
> >>>mentioned before. Then the heat seems to work fine. If the outside
> >>>temp is below 40 or so, the "Heat" makes my feed cold!
> >>>
> >>> If I'm moving, even at slow speeds, the gauge settles back the the
> >>
> >>thin
> >>
> >>>white line at about 1/4 again.
> >>>
> >>> Also, the oil temp only just comes off the cold mark (60degrees C)
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>the first white mark at about 1/6 the guage. The engine has
> >>>an oil cooler so I wouldn't expect the oil to get much above the
coolant
> >>>temp.
> >>>
> >>> All indications are that the engine is not getting to full
operating
> >>>temperature. I've replaced the thermostat twice, once because it
really
> >>>failed. I've installed the 97 degree C thermostat, not the 87. And
> >>
> >>still,
> >>
> >>>very low heater output, and the needle stays at about 1/4 on the gauge.
> >>>There is no indication on the gauge as to what the temperature value
is.
> >>>
> >>> Any ideas?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

Gene,
If you have a 97c thermostat installed, the temperature of the coolant
exiting through the thermostat should be 97c or above. It sounds like the
thermostat is letting 87c coolant pass by (which, according to the FA, is
what the 078 121 113F thermostat is supposed to do for your car, anyway - it
shows that the rubber gasket is between the thermostat and the cover, not
between the thermostat and the block, FWIW).
I'd take the thermostat out and check it on the stove, personally.
A few years ago the temp gauge in the 5ktq was acting up, it would read
temperature to a certain point, and then stay there. IIRC the temperature
sensor, often referred to as the "Multimalfunction Device", can fail in this
way as it uses a combo of mechanical and electrical devices to read the
temperature. The replacement of the sensor cured the gauge woes. Look at:
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/troubl.../20vmfsns.html
and:
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/troubl...ing.html#gauge
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Gene Buckwalter" > wrote in message
...
>
> The heating system seems to function as well as it can with the engine
> coolant temp being low....if that's really the case.
>
> Last night I put a therocouple on the temp sensor in the pipe that
comes
> out of he rear of the passenger side head. That seemed to read about
> 70C when the dash needle was where it normally rests. Then I moved the
> thermocouple to the radiator, right where the heated water enters it.
That
> read about 85C or so a few minutes later, when the temp had risen above
its
> normal operating temp.
>
> Anyway, as you mentioned, I also beleive the only way for the temp to
be
> low is either a bad run of thermostats or something wrong with
> the way it's installed. Somehow, heated coolant is getting to the
radiator
> to lose its heat.
>
> Is it possible that the coolant configuration on this engine is
> different from what the orientation instructions say that come with the
> thermostat? The thermostat in backwards may cause this sort of problem.
>
> I soon need to fix an oil leak on the front of the engine so I'll be
> removing the timing belt and such anyway. I plan to take a
> very carefull look at the coolant direction and the orientation of the
> t-stat and replace it for good measure.
>
>
> Gene
>
>
> "Steve Sears" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Gene,
> > I'd get a thermometer and check the temp of the fluid running into the
> rad.
> > With a 97c thermostat, the fluid should circulate in the block only for
a
> > longer period, and the regular oil temp should raise as well. The
coolant
> > temperature gauge is on the outside of the t-stat, so it is more a gauge
> of
> > the temperature of the fluid in the rad than the engine, and if the
t-stat
> > is holding the temp in, then you'd expect the oil temp to go way up.
I've
> > heard of new t-stats malfunctioning - I checked the last one I put in
the
> > 5ktq on the stove before I put it in - had to use cooking oil as the
water
> > was boiling below the opening point (not that I live on a significant
> > mountain, or anything). Tony is about right - there has to be heated
> > coolant bypassing the thermostat.
> > On the heater issue, have you checked that the cabin heating system is
> > operating correctly? My '87 5ktq had only unheated air out the vents
all
> > summer - turns out that the servo motor ist kaput and wouldn't pull the
> > bowden cable that changes the air supply from outside to from the heater
> > core. I found the servo pack behind the glovebox and manually rotated
the
> > servo link to heat - now all I'll have to do is change it back in the
> spring
> > (take THAT, "climate control system"!) There's a discussion about CC
> > problems on Audifans today - if your system has the "fault codes", on
the
> > Type 44 system channel 8 and 9 should be within 3 units of each other if
> the
> > servo is working well.
> > Cheers!
> > Steve Sears
> > 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> > 1980 Audi 5k
> > 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> > (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
> >
> > "Gene Buckwalter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Ok, before you all say that I need a new thermostat, I've been
> there.
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > The engine temperature guage seems to regulate to the first, thin
> > white
> > > line at about 1/4 on the guage. There is a thick white line
> > > just below half way up the guage where I would expect the needle to
> > settle.
> > > The needle only gets there on warm days in the summer
> > > or if I let the car idle stopped for some long period of time.
Somewhat
> > > farther up the guage(just above half guage) the fans turn on,
> > > as I would expect also. The heater blows very slightly warm air if
the
> > > outside temp is below, say, 45 degrees.... unless I let the car
> > > sit idling long enough to get the gauge up to or past the thick white
> line
> > I
> > > mentioned before. Then the heat seems to work fine. If the outside
> > > temp is below 40 or so, the "Heat" makes my feed cold!
> > >
> > > If I'm moving, even at slow speeds, the gauge settles back the the
> > thin
> > > white line at about 1/4 again.
> > >
> > > Also, the oil temp only just comes off the cold mark (60degrees C)
> to
> > > the first white mark at about 1/6 the guage. The engine has
> > > an oil cooler so I wouldn't expect the oil to get much above the
coolant
> > > temp.
> > >
> > > All indications are that the engine is not getting to full
operating
> > > temperature. I've replaced the thermostat twice, once because it
really
> > > failed. I've installed the 97 degree C thermostat, not the 87. And
> > still,
> > > very low heater output, and the needle stays at about 1/4 on the
gauge.
> > > There is no indication on the gauge as to what the temperature value
is.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks, Steve. Like I said, I'll take a very close look at this when I
go after an oil leak in the next few weeks. The sites you listed look very
informative as well. Thanks again.

I should have done some more of this research before I pulled the heads
and replaced valve guides in October. I could have killed this bird with
that stone too.

Gene

"Steve Sears" > wrote in message
...
> Gene,
> If you have a 97c thermostat installed, the temperature of the coolant
> exiting through the thermostat should be 97c or above. It sounds like the
> thermostat is letting 87c coolant pass by (which, according to the FA, is
> what the 078 121 113F thermostat is supposed to do for your car, anyway -
it
> shows that the rubber gasket is between the thermostat and the cover, not
> between the thermostat and the block, FWIW).
> I'd take the thermostat out and check it on the stove, personally.
> A few years ago the temp gauge in the 5ktq was acting up, it would read
> temperature to a certain point, and then stay there. IIRC the temperature
> sensor, often referred to as the "Multimalfunction Device", can fail in
this
> way as it uses a combo of mechanical and electrical devices to read the
> temperature. The replacement of the sensor cured the gauge woes. Look
at:
> http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/troubl.../20vmfsns.html
> and:
> http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/troubl...ing.html#gauge
> Cheers!
> Steve Sears
> 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> 1980 Audi 5k
> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
>
> "Gene Buckwalter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The heating system seems to function as well as it can with the
engine
> > coolant temp being low....if that's really the case.
> >
> > Last night I put a therocouple on the temp sensor in the pipe that
> comes
> > out of he rear of the passenger side head. That seemed to read about
> > 70C when the dash needle was where it normally rests. Then I moved the
> > thermocouple to the radiator, right where the heated water enters it.
> That
> > read about 85C or so a few minutes later, when the temp had risen above
> its
> > normal operating temp.
> >
> > Anyway, as you mentioned, I also beleive the only way for the temp
to
> be
> > low is either a bad run of thermostats or something wrong with
> > the way it's installed. Somehow, heated coolant is getting to the
> radiator
> > to lose its heat.
> >
> > Is it possible that the coolant configuration on this engine is
> > different from what the orientation instructions say that come with the
> > thermostat? The thermostat in backwards may cause this sort of problem.
> >
> > I soon need to fix an oil leak on the front of the engine so I'll be
> > removing the timing belt and such anyway. I plan to take a
> > very carefull look at the coolant direction and the orientation of the
> > t-stat and replace it for good measure.
> >
> >
> > Gene
> >
> >
> > "Steve Sears" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > Gene,
> > > I'd get a thermometer and check the temp of the fluid running into the
> > rad.
> > > With a 97c thermostat, the fluid should circulate in the block only
for
> a
> > > longer period, and the regular oil temp should raise as well. The
> coolant
> > > temperature gauge is on the outside of the t-stat, so it is more a
gauge
> > of
> > > the temperature of the fluid in the rad than the engine, and if the
> t-stat
> > > is holding the temp in, then you'd expect the oil temp to go way up.
> I've
> > > heard of new t-stats malfunctioning - I checked the last one I put in
> the
> > > 5ktq on the stove before I put it in - had to use cooking oil as the
> water
> > > was boiling below the opening point (not that I live on a significant
> > > mountain, or anything). Tony is about right - there has to be heated
> > > coolant bypassing the thermostat.
> > > On the heater issue, have you checked that the cabin heating system is
> > > operating correctly? My '87 5ktq had only unheated air out the vents
> all
> > > summer - turns out that the servo motor ist kaput and wouldn't pull
the
> > > bowden cable that changes the air supply from outside to from the
heater
> > > core. I found the servo pack behind the glovebox and manually rotated
> the
> > > servo link to heat - now all I'll have to do is change it back in the
> > spring
> > > (take THAT, "climate control system"!) There's a discussion about CC
> > > problems on Audifans today - if your system has the "fault codes", on
> the
> > > Type 44 system channel 8 and 9 should be within 3 units of each other
if
> > the
> > > servo is working well.
> > > Cheers!
> > > Steve Sears
> > > 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> > > 1980 Audi 5k
> > > 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> > > (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
> > >
> > > "Gene Buckwalter" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Ok, before you all say that I need a new thermostat, I've been
> > there.
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > The engine temperature guage seems to regulate to the first,
thin
> > > white
> > > > line at about 1/4 on the guage. There is a thick white line
> > > > just below half way up the guage where I would expect the needle to
> > > settle.
> > > > The needle only gets there on warm days in the summer
> > > > or if I let the car idle stopped for some long period of time.
> Somewhat
> > > > farther up the guage(just above half guage) the fans turn on,
> > > > as I would expect also. The heater blows very slightly warm air if
> the
> > > > outside temp is below, say, 45 degrees.... unless I let the car
> > > > sit idling long enough to get the gauge up to or past the thick whit
e
> > line
> > > I
> > > > mentioned before. Then the heat seems to work fine. If the outside
> > > > temp is below 40 or so, the "Heat" makes my feed cold!
> > > >
> > > > If I'm moving, even at slow speeds, the gauge settles back the
the
> > > thin
> > > > white line at about 1/4 again.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the oil temp only just comes off the cold mark (60degrees
C)
> > to
> > > > the first white mark at about 1/6 the guage. The engine has
> > > > an oil cooler so I wouldn't expect the oil to get much above the
> coolant
> > > > temp.
> > > >
> > > > All indications are that the engine is not getting to full
> operating
> > > > temperature. I've replaced the thermostat twice, once because it
> really
> > > > failed. I've installed the 97 degree C thermostat, not the 87. And
> > > still,
> > > > very low heater output, and the needle stays at about 1/4 on the
> gauge.
> > > > There is no indication on the gauge as to what the temperature value
> is.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>