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Two kinds of idiots



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 19th 05, 05:14 AM
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Spike wrote:
> You are welcome to believe what you will. It's not worth the effort to
> discuss the subject with someone who is locked into a single position
> wherein any other position is rejected without investigation.


Investigation? I've been studying this topic for years. Last time this
sort of subject came up, I provided cite after cite after cite backing up
my views and got nothing but your style of arguement by declaration in
return.

> I hope
> you can retain that holier than thou attitude when a tractor trailer
> rig is eating your 100+ vehicle.


That will most likely happening obeying the assinine 45mph INTERSTATE
speed limits in these parts when the semis are doing 65+

Ads
  #12  
Old April 19th 05, 06:03 AM
Spike
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Posts: n/a
Default

Wish I could walk on water too, but I guess I was just destined to be
one of the common people.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:57:20 -0600, "Ralph Snart"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, RichA wrote:
>>
>>> who think
>>> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems.

>>
>> On a limited access highway where lane discipline is practiced, a wide
>> speed variance is easy and safely delt with. Only in the USA is this a
>> problem, because lane discipline is practically non-existant in much of
>> the nation.
>>
>> Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the same
>> time.
>>

>
>I have to agree. On I-25, the posted speed limit is 75, most people go
>80-90, but there will ALWAYS be the assclown in the left lane going SLOWER
>than the traffic, causing people to have to go into the right lane to pass
>his/her sorry ass. These drivers are much greater hazards to the roads than
>speeders or tailgaters. It's a pity that they can't be shot on sight.
>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #13  
Old April 19th 05, 06:07 AM
Brent P
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Spike wrote:
> Wish I could walk on water too, but I guess I was just destined to be
> one of the common people.


WTF?

Unless this nation adopts disciplined driving, things are only going to
get worse. We certainly won't be able to add enough lanes to make up for
not having it.


  #14  
Old April 19th 05, 07:40 AM
Spike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions), you expect to get
everyone to fall in line like good little soldiers and stick to this
practice. You can't do it there with strict enforcement, how do you
expect to see compliance anywhere? But what do I know... I'm just a
"revenue" cop with 20+ years experience. You have all the answers. Go
fix it.



On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:07:51 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, Spike wrote:
>> Wish I could walk on water too, but I guess I was just destined to be
>> one of the common people.

>
>WTF?
>
>Unless this nation adopts disciplined driving, things are only going to
>get worse. We certainly won't be able to add enough lanes to make up for
>not having it.
>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #15  
Old April 19th 05, 05:58 PM
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Spike wrote:
> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
> the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions),


I didn't argue they violated it, I argue they follow it far more than US
drivers. And they do so without much in the way of enforcement. There is
very sparse enforcement on the autobahn, and when there is, they go after
things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard.
If we only had it so good.

> you expect to get
> everyone to fall in line like good little soldiers and stick to this
> practice.


I expect drivers to show real courtesy to other road users.

If I were to adopt your principles, I would ride my cannondale (that's a
bicycle) in the center of the left lane of a 40+mph arterial. (I'm a
pretty fast rider too, but I am not 40mph fast)

> You can't do it there with strict enforcement, how do you
> expect to see compliance anywhere? But what do I know... I'm just a
> "revenue" cop with 20+ years experience. You have all the answers. Go
> fix it.


To use your arguement, above, all speed enforcement should stop as a
useless waste of time. But it doesn't.

How much time and effort is spent on speeding tickets?
How much time and effort is spent trying to catch criminals by stopping
vehicles hoping to find one? If you want enforcement, redirect the
resources to where they are most effective for road safety rather than
the government coffers.

However, unlike you, I don't believe in the enforcement model. I believe
that there should be training and have simple rules that make sense, with
things like speed limits set properly and sensibly. When an interstate
flows at 78 mph and the speed limit is 55mph, it encourages people to
use any lane they want any time they want at 63mph. If the speed limit
reflected the actual travel speeds, the lane discipline problem would be
greatly reduced immediately.

Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just
sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops.


  #16  
Old April 19th 05, 09:32 PM
Spike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:58:37 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, Spike wrote:
>> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
>> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
>> the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions),

>
>I didn't argue they violated it, I argue they follow it far more than US
>drivers. And they do so without much in the way of enforcement. There is
>very sparse enforcement on the autobahn, and when there is, they go after
>things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard.
>If we only had it so good.


That is not accurate according to the Management and Enforcement
agencies of the Autobahn. There are cameras for monitoring traffic,
and enforcement uses a wide range of specialized, marked and unmarked,
car and motorcycle patrols, as well as roadside monitoring. They go
after violators of a wide range of traffic laws, including,
lighting,signaling, speed, adverse conditions operation, lane
changing at speed, proper lane maintenance, etc etc etc. I get the
impression you have not personally driven the Autobahn, nor studied
the management of it's use. If what you say is contrary to what the
management and enforcement operations of the Autobahn, and the German
government say, how can anything you say be taken seriously?

Law enforcement is there to enforce the law... and that includes
traffic laws. Police officers don't make the laws. You put down the
enforcement model, as if the cops make the rules. Talk to the
politicians. There are a lot of changes we would like to see, but we
have to live with what the system hands us. You act as if our sole
motivation is revenue. It's clear you don't personally know many, if
any at all, police officers. You clearly have no idea what they are
about, or what they have to contend with from people who seem to think
they are above the law because they know better than the enforcement
officer, and everyone else.
>
>Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just
>sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops.


I do agree that driver training can be different in scope from one
area to another. You see that elsewhere in the world. For example, in
Belgium you were required to have a driver's license if you bought a
new car, but if you bought a used car it was not required. In some
countries, a license is unheard of for the masses. I know what my son
went through to get his license. The number of months of restricted
driving (things like not permitted to have other teens in the car is
the law for new young drivers), etc. I'm getting the feeling you have
selected a single region where you have experienced your peeves, and
applied that to the entire country. People are different from one zone
to another. Just as rural people are less apt to lock their homes than
people living in major metro areas. I've lived in MA, NY, ME, IN, FL,
MN, CA, WA, AK, rural and metro areas, and traveled through most of
the rest of the country. My experience is fairly extensive.


>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #17  
Old April 19th 05, 10:12 PM
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Spike wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:58:37 -0500,
> (Brent P) wrote:
>
>>In article >, Spike wrote:
>>> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
>>> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
>>> the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions),

>>
>>I didn't argue they violated it, I argue they follow it far more than US
>>drivers. And they do so without much in the way of enforcement. There is
>>very sparse enforcement on the autobahn, and when there is, they go after
>>things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard.
>>If we only had it so good.

>
> That is not accurate according to the Management and Enforcement
> agencies of the Autobahn. There are cameras for monitoring traffic,
> and enforcement uses a wide range of specialized, marked and unmarked,
> car and motorcycle patrols, as well as roadside monitoring. They go
> after violators of a wide range of traffic laws, including,
> lighting,signaling, speed, adverse conditions operation, lane
> changing at speed, proper lane maintenance, etc etc etc. I get the
> impression you have not personally driven the Autobahn, nor studied
> the management of it's use. If what you say is contrary to what the
> management and enforcement operations of the Autobahn, and the German
> government say, how can anything you say be taken seriously?


You have an actual cite? Because this image of rigid enforcement you are
trying to convey is contrary to everything I've read, seen, and
experienced. Yes, there is enforcement, but it is not the
way you are making it out to be. There is no constant monitoring of
everyone, everywhere for violations as you are making it out to be. It
simply is not like that.

There is some enforcement presence, but nothing like you claim. Sparse
would be a good word to describe it. Rural autobahn has effectively
nobody out there enforcing lane discipline, much like rural Indiana.
However, on the rural autobahn, there is lane discipline, while in rural
Indiana interstate it's practically nonexistant.

Effectively what you are doing is taking the existance of a few red
light cameras and acting as if the entire US road system is so monitored.

Also, I didn't write that only tailgating was enforced, but that
tailgating was the big problem. There are/have been tailgating traps set
up on overpasses to measure the distances between vehicles. Much like the
effort put in with speed traps in the USA.

Patrol cars are few and far between as well.

So, you show me this constant, ever present enforcement you claim exists.
I simply didn't see it, and you are the first person I've encountered to
claim it's there.

> Law enforcement is there to enforce the law... and that includes
> traffic laws.


Then enforce Keep Right except to pass. Enforce signaling, enforce a
whole host of laws on books in this country. But are they enforced? No.

Here in IL, elected officals strengthen the lane discipline portion of the
vehicle code. In a year's time, the ISP writes a whole 50 some tickets.
It's trivial. On I90/94 it one could spend their entire shift writing
tickets for this and this alone.

> Police officers don't make the laws.


They damn well choose what to enforce and on who.

> You put down the enforcement model, as if the cops make the rules.


No, I put it down because it's idiotcy. The same way you are claiming the
autobahn is so tightly controled and how that's no good. (thankfully it's
not controlled like that)

> Talk to the politicians.


Yes, you're only following the orders of your masters.

> There are a lot of changes we would like to see, but we
> have to live with what the system hands us.


As if there is no selective enforcement.

> You act as if our sole motivation is revenue.


That's the motivation of your masters, the politicians, and since you
just follow orders, and told me to take it up with them, then it is your
motivation too.

> It's clear you don't personally know many, if
> any at all, police officers. You clearly have no idea what they are
> about, or what they have to contend with from people who seem to think
> they are above the law because they know better than the enforcement
> officer, and everyone else.


Oh, you mean like the ISP who ticket people for going faster than 55mph
but drive 85-90mph themselves? Or the local cops that rutinely speed and
don't use singals and make all sorts of violations? Or the cops who don't
know the vehicle code and demanded that I remove my vehicle (a bicycle)
from the roadway? Or my favorite, the two cops, one tailgating the other
driving 80mph or so on IL53, and when the lead cruiser used the brakes,
the following cruiser nearly rear ended the lead one.

>>Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just
>>sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops.


> I do agree that driver training can be different in scope from one
> area to another. You see that elsewhere in the world. For example, in
> Belgium you were required to have a driver's license if you bought a
> new car, but if you bought a used car it was not required. In some
> countries, a license is unheard of for the masses. I know what my son
> went through to get his license. The number of months of restricted
> driving (things like not permitted to have other teens in the car is
> the law for new young drivers), etc. I'm getting the feeling you have
> selected a single region where you have experienced your peeves, and
> applied that to the entire country.


What part of the US of A has a decent driver training program? Name one.
Just name one state that has something closer to say the UK's requirements
than usual around-the-block type testing of the USA.

Oh, btw, the hoops teenagers in the USA are made to go through in the USA
only make for equally untrained older teenagers driving. It's not about
teaching them to drive, but just restricting their driving to limit the
damage they can do. (Identical mentality to having underposted speed
limits, let every idiot drive, but try to restrict the damage that will
occur when they hit something) Having only one passenger so they can't
kill 3 of their friends in a wreck under the concept that they cannot handle
distractions from said friends. Maybe it's because this is a culture of
multi-tasking drivers. Where driving isn't considered important, but
something you can do in addition to yacking on the phone, reading,
shaving, applying make up, etc... Just ease them into being like most of
the rest of the population.

I'd like to see a state that starts requiring skid control classes in HS
driver's ed instead of having cops hassle the few that find an empty
parking lot to teach themselves.

> People are different from one zone
> to another. Just as rural people are less apt to lock their homes than
> people living in major metro areas. I've lived in MA, NY, ME, IN, FL,
> MN, CA, WA, AK, rural and metro areas, and traveled through most of
> the rest of the country. My experience is fairly extensive.


I am not saying observed behavior doesn't vary. It vary well does because
driving education in this country is essentially one generation teaching
the next. You can check in google groups to see where I have argued
before that it DOES vary from place to place. I found that lane
discipline in WV is orders of magnitude better than in IL, for instance.
So much for your newest manufactured angle. However, required
driver training in the USA is low in every state as far as I know.


  #18  
Old April 19th 05, 11:19 PM
Spike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:12:14 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

I think one law enforcement exchange program experience would open
your eyes to a presence you fail to observe. Perhaps as you are
traveling at 100+ the natural tunnel vision which develops blinds you
to the obvious. Then read the annual reports from the people who
manage the Autobahn. Read the engineering reports regarding the
construction and maintenance of the Autobahn, and you will see that
there is no other system, as old or new, which compares to what has
gone into creating, maintaining, and improving the system, anywhere in
the world, although some of the newer Japanese route are approaching
first rate. You cite the Autobahn and how much more the drivers comply
compared to the US. The Autobahn, extensive as it is, is a very small
piece of the European roadway system. The portion you don't mention is
nowhere near as complying. I would suggest that you get over there and
do a much wider range of travel, and then question why the Autobahn
has more compliance. It is not simply because the drivers are more
polite.



>In article >, Spike wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:58:37 -0500,

>> (Brent P) wrote:
>>
>>>In article >, Spike wrote:
>>>> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
>>>> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
>>>> the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions),
>>>
>>>I didn't argue they violated it, I argue they follow it far more than US
>>>drivers. And they do so without much in the way of enforcement. There is
>>>very sparse enforcement on the autobahn, and when there is, they go after
>>>things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard.
>>>If we only had it so good.

>>
>> That is not accurate according to the Management and Enforcement
>> agencies of the Autobahn. There are cameras for monitoring traffic,
>> and enforcement uses a wide range of specialized, marked and unmarked,
>> car and motorcycle patrols, as well as roadside monitoring. They go
>> after violators of a wide range of traffic laws, including,
>> lighting,signaling, speed, adverse conditions operation, lane
>> changing at speed, proper lane maintenance, etc etc etc. I get the
>> impression you have not personally driven the Autobahn, nor studied
>> the management of it's use. If what you say is contrary to what the
>> management and enforcement operations of the Autobahn, and the German
>> government say, how can anything you say be taken seriously?

>
>You have an actual cite? Because this image of rigid enforcement you are
>trying to convey is contrary to everything I've read, seen, and
>experienced. Yes, there is enforcement, but it is not the
>way you are making it out to be. There is no constant monitoring of
>everyone, everywhere for violations as you are making it out to be. It
>simply is not like that.
>
>There is some enforcement presence, but nothing like you claim. Sparse
>would be a good word to describe it. Rural autobahn has effectively
>nobody out there enforcing lane discipline, much like rural Indiana.
>However, on the rural autobahn, there is lane discipline, while in rural
>Indiana interstate it's practically nonexistant.
>
>Effectively what you are doing is taking the existance of a few red
>light cameras and acting as if the entire US road system is so monitored.
>
>Also, I didn't write that only tailgating was enforced, but that
>tailgating was the big problem. There are/have been tailgating traps set
>up on overpasses to measure the distances between vehicles. Much like the
>effort put in with speed traps in the USA.
>
>Patrol cars are few and far between as well.
>
>So, you show me this constant, ever present enforcement you claim exists.
>I simply didn't see it, and you are the first person I've encountered to
>claim it's there.
>
>> Law enforcement is there to enforce the law... and that includes
>> traffic laws.

>
>Then enforce Keep Right except to pass. Enforce signaling, enforce a
>whole host of laws on books in this country. But are they enforced? No.
>
>Here in IL, elected officals strengthen the lane discipline portion of the
>vehicle code. In a year's time, the ISP writes a whole 50 some tickets.
>It's trivial. On I90/94 it one could spend their entire shift writing
>tickets for this and this alone.
>
>> Police officers don't make the laws.

>
>They damn well choose what to enforce and on who.
>
>> You put down the enforcement model, as if the cops make the rules.

>
>No, I put it down because it's idiotcy. The same way you are claiming the
>autobahn is so tightly controled and how that's no good. (thankfully it's
>not controlled like that)
>
>> Talk to the politicians.

>
>Yes, you're only following the orders of your masters.
>
>> There are a lot of changes we would like to see, but we
>> have to live with what the system hands us.

>
>As if there is no selective enforcement.
>
>> You act as if our sole motivation is revenue.

>
>That's the motivation of your masters, the politicians, and since you
>just follow orders, and told me to take it up with them, then it is your
>motivation too.
>
>> It's clear you don't personally know many, if
>> any at all, police officers. You clearly have no idea what they are
>> about, or what they have to contend with from people who seem to think
>> they are above the law because they know better than the enforcement
>> officer, and everyone else.

>
>Oh, you mean like the ISP who ticket people for going faster than 55mph
>but drive 85-90mph themselves? Or the local cops that rutinely speed and
>don't use singals and make all sorts of violations? Or the cops who don't
>know the vehicle code and demanded that I remove my vehicle (a bicycle)
>from the roadway? Or my favorite, the two cops, one tailgating the other
>driving 80mph or so on IL53, and when the lead cruiser used the brakes,
>the following cruiser nearly rear ended the lead one.
>
>>>Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just
>>>sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops.

>
>> I do agree that driver training can be different in scope from one
>> area to another. You see that elsewhere in the world. For example, in
>> Belgium you were required to have a driver's license if you bought a
>> new car, but if you bought a used car it was not required. In some
>> countries, a license is unheard of for the masses. I know what my son
>> went through to get his license. The number of months of restricted
>> driving (things like not permitted to have other teens in the car is
>> the law for new young drivers), etc. I'm getting the feeling you have
>> selected a single region where you have experienced your peeves, and
>> applied that to the entire country.

>
>What part of the US of A has a decent driver training program? Name one.
>Just name one state that has something closer to say the UK's requirements
>than usual around-the-block type testing of the USA.
>
>Oh, btw, the hoops teenagers in the USA are made to go through in the USA
>only make for equally untrained older teenagers driving. It's not about
>teaching them to drive, but just restricting their driving to limit the
>damage they can do. (Identical mentality to having underposted speed
>limits, let every idiot drive, but try to restrict the damage that will
>occur when they hit something) Having only one passenger so they can't
>kill 3 of their friends in a wreck under the concept that they cannot handle
>distractions from said friends. Maybe it's because this is a culture of
>multi-tasking drivers. Where driving isn't considered important, but
>something you can do in addition to yacking on the phone, reading,
>shaving, applying make up, etc... Just ease them into being like most of
>the rest of the population.
>
>I'd like to see a state that starts requiring skid control classes in HS
>driver's ed instead of having cops hassle the few that find an empty
>parking lot to teach themselves.
>
>> People are different from one zone
>> to another. Just as rural people are less apt to lock their homes than
>> people living in major metro areas. I've lived in MA, NY, ME, IN, FL,
>> MN, CA, WA, AK, rural and metro areas, and traveled through most of
>> the rest of the country. My experience is fairly extensive.

>
>I am not saying observed behavior doesn't vary. It vary well does because
>driving education in this country is essentially one generation teaching
>the next. You can check in google groups to see where I have argued
>before that it DOES vary from place to place. I found that lane
>discipline in WV is orders of magnitude better than in IL, for instance.
>So much for your newest manufactured angle. However, required
>driver training in the USA is low in every state as far as I know.
>


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #19  
Old April 19th 05, 11:50 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:38:46 GMT, "NoOne" > wrote:

> Its really sad to see someone like you who aparently has no life
>whatsoever and who's only thrill is to act like a juvinile dick online.
>You obviouly cant contribute anything of substance here and probably
>know just enough about cars to be dangerous.
>

is there anything of substance on this group anyway ?
> I hate to feed the trolls like you, but do feel the need to point you in
>the
>direction of counseling or to simply to GET A LIFE. No one likes you
>here, you probably have no friends, have small penis issues and your
>only date is your right hand. As a general rule, people like you who only
>make the same old tired stupid comments and try to ACT like they are
>an "in the know" certified tech, dont have a clue and you most likely are
>the wash boy at a used car lot.
>

seals on the wall
u are the one that is UNSKILLED LABOR
> Now go drive your Pacer around... keep playing on your mommie's PC
>and dream of owning Mustang.
>


**** a mustang is only 35k $$

what a cheap ****ing dreamer u are

> * I'm sure you will have some real witty come back, something like;
>
>"lmfao....... bla...bla...bla"
>( insert snappy 12 year )
>( old comment here )
>hurc ast
>(Assistant Soap Tech)
>
>
>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:05:12 -0400, RichA > wrote:
>>
>>
>> what about the idiots in mustangs?
>>
>>
>> hurc ast

>


  #20  
Old April 19th 05, 11:51 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:35:00 -0700, Spike > wrote:

>No problem... sorry, you are not allowed in my Mustang. I am not a
>bigot... I just hate all stupid people like you.
>
>


lmfao
what makes u think i would want to ride in your car??

are u gay ??


hurc ast
 




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